What don't you like about Festool...

[Mike_Chrest]

OK,
  Here is a design issue. I use the "Fast Action Clamp"
http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=489790&ID=8

on my guide rails when cutting down doors. ... Unfortunately the handle folds toward the blade side of the guide rail. I can just barely plunge the saw between the handle and the edge of the door, but it would be really nice if the handle folded away from the blade.

Mike, I see your point., but until the factory makes "other-handed" FS-Rapid clamps, just reverse them.  That is, put the half of the clamp with the squeeze handle at the far end of the rail, and the tail piece nearest the operator.  Then the clamp handle swings out of the way.

Providing the link to the product page is a great idea, especially when talking about the many smaller and confusingly named pieces.

Your right Ned, but then it isn't a "fast action" clamp it's a "walk around the door clamp" ;D
Mike

 

[tongaroo]

I don't want my first post to be a complaint about Festool, since I love all my Festool stuff dearly, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before. If there's one word about Festool that I don't like, that word would be "proprietary", as in, Festool saws only use Festool blades, centrotec chucks only take Festool bits, and Festool sanders only take Festool paper. I don't know if this is a result of Festool being a German company that has served Europe for far longer than it's been available here in the States (probably), but for us Americans with lots of 7 1/4" and 10" saw blades, the 8 1/4" Festool blade is a bummer. I was also bummed to discover that to really take advantage of my eccentric and right angle chucks to squeeze into tight spaces, I'd need the Festool driver bits. I'm also fairly sure that my CT 33 vacuum will only accept their filter bags.

It's not a major complaint, and by no means a deal breaker, but in a more perfect world, I guess it'd be nice if Festool powertools accepted more of the blades, bits, and bags that we (Americans) already have lying around. Is it an unreasonable expectation? Yes, kinda like expecting the rest of the world to accept standard versus metric measurements simply because that's how we do it in America. But, again, in a more perfect world...

I am extrememly grateful that my most expensive bits, my 1/4" and 1/2" shank router bits, fit my OF 1400 router just fine.

Okay. Given the proprietary nature of all Festool stuff, I'd still give it a 9.9 out of 10 in terms of quality, satisfaction, and design, and I'm becoming quite a Festool junkie. I was ecstatic when a Woodcraft store opened just minutes from our house, since I could just walk in and fondle all the Festool goodies anytime I please. If I keep this up, I'll have enough Festool stuff that the proprietary-ness won't even matter anymore.

David

 

[HowardH]

"the bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"  Nuff said.

 

[Mirko]

"the bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"  Nuff said.

Put that on a fortune cookie!

Mirko

 

[LaserGecko]

Obviously, higher price = higher quality with Festool, but just HOW good is a $177 filter bag?
http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=456737&ID=6

 

[Per Swenson]

I guess that depends on how fast you fill yer bag, no?

Or if like me, you sometimes duct tape the paper bags because

your are too cheap to just use them once.

Trust me there is a big down side to this.

Cost is always relative.

And consumables are always part of billing.

Per

 

[LaserGecko]

Regardless of how much money it saves you versus using the disposable bags, that is an outrageous amount of money for a cloth sack. Even the guys at NASA would say "That's a bit much."

 

[Mirko]

Regardless of how much money it saves you versus using the disposable bags, that is an outrageous amount of money for a cloth sack. Even the guys at NASA would say "That's a bit much."

Its funny you mentioned NASA, because when I got my Long life bag, to justify the cost, I  compared it to space age "NASA" type enginered material.
I also agree with the comments, my bag is the CT33 and it was 184 bucks + taxes and Canadian conversion = 260can. WOW!! :'(

 

[EJB]

Angle Stop enhancements:

I would like the MFT angle stop and the combination angle guide (for guide rails, 491588) to have precision machined detents for major angles or at least for 90 degrees.  I know the angle stop for the MFT has detents but mine are really sloppy.  I have to make checks for square everytime I take the unit off and usually make small adjustments.  Not hard but a pain.

I love the MFT.  It replaced my RAS and is great for attaching jig for routing

Jig Saw:

I would like to be able to have the base slide backward on the Trion 300 to make a flush cut..or come close with an offset blade.  The splinter guards are great but sometimes it is hard to see the cut line...an LED light would be nice...might aid the splinger guard issue.

Router depth stops on Turret...(OF1000)
Widh the head on the screw were larger or preferably had a hex so that I could adject them from the side.  Perhaps the OF1010 and 1400 are improved.  Haven't used these models.

Quick disconnect cords:

Great idea.  but the cord from my Ps300 Jig saw has a different key than my TS55.  Anyone know the reason?  Different gauge wire for power capacity?

Thanks
Ed

 

[Mirko]

Angle Stop enhancements:

I would like the MFT angle stop and the combination angle guide (for guide rails, 491588) to have precision machined detents for major angles or at least for 90 degrees.  I know the angle stop for the MFT has detents but mine are really sloppy.  I have to make checks for square everytime I take the unit off and usually make small adjustments.  Not hard but a pain.

I love the MFT.  It replaced my RAS and is great for attaching jig for routing

Jig Saw:

I would like to be able to have the base slide backward on the Trion 300 to make a flush cut..or come close with an offset blade.  The splinter guards are great but sometimes it is hard to see the cut line...an LED light would be nice...might aid the splinger guard issue.

Router depth stops on Turret...(OF1000)
Widh the head on the screw were larger or preferably had a hex so that I could adject them from the side.  Perhaps the OF1010 and 1400 are improved.  Haven't used these models.

Quick disconnect cords:

Great idea.  but the cord from my Ps300 Jig saw has a different key than my TS55.  Anyone know the reason?  Different gauge wire for power capacity?

Thanks
Ed

Ed, just use the TS55 plug-it cord it works with all the tools. Three of my tools still have the cords bundled new from the factory. It is always plugged into the CT33. You are correct the TS cord has a higher amp rating.

 

[ccmviking]

     This isn't really a list about what I don't like about Festool but rather a gripe list I have about using some of my tools.  I would like to see Festool take the approach that auto manufactures do (oh yes another car analogy) by making model year improvements.  If something on the car is squeaking they either use a different material, different lube, add a piece of felt etc. to take care of the problem.  The same thing could be done by Festool to take care of any issue I have below.  None of it (except maybe the jigsaw issue) would need UL approval, none of it would require complete re-tooling or re-engineering.  They just need to take the customers serious and quit being so darn conceited.  Please realize that these are not black and decker tools from Home Depot in the hands of home owners.  We are mainly professionals and use these tools daily.  Small issues are very annoying and time consuming over time.  I do strive for perfection in my work and in my time and I expect my tool manufactures to do the same.  Offer these upgraded (modified) parts to us and let us choose to make the changes on our current models (much like a software patch or upgrade)  Love the tools, Keep'em coming.

     - Drill bits that come in the coutersink units (492523, 492524) don't have flutes long enough on them.  In fact they hardly have any so when I drill I have to keep pulling the bit out and cleaning it of wood, then drill some more, then pull it out and clean etc.  Try drilling through 1.5" maple or cherry with it and you'll see what I mean.
     
     - Drill chucks that came with my C12's don't hold bits very well, If I'm using any hole saw type arbor they don't ever spin in the chuck (probably because they are hex shank) but it seems like any time I turn that darn thing facing down the bit will fall out and to the floor.
     
     - Drill chucks and bits will sometimes stick on the drill shaft and are hard to remove.  I've posted a reply on this subject to a problem another user was having too.  Doesn't happen all time but but it does happen weekly.
     
     - Driver bits are sometimes a little difficult to remove from the magnetic holder on the front of the drill because the plastic to metal transition is not smooth enough.  The plastic is higher than the metal in in cases so the bit won't slide out.
     
     - Saw base metal contact with the guide rail is a problem.  I don't like how much wear the little metal nibs on the baseplate of my TS is getting.
     
     - Saw has too much movent (slop) at the plunge action that allows it to go side to side and causes some uneven cuts.  The old ATF didn't have this issue and cut much better in my opinion.
     
     - Saw combination angle unit that came in the 150+ dollar 492396 isn't worth a crap.
     
     - Vac hose catches on everything.  I know you can get a boom and all kinds of fancy stuff but how about a hose cover?  My home central vac hose has a padded cover to keep it from catching up on and marring walls and furniture as you use it.  If it can be done with a 30' hose you should be able to do something with the tool hose.  I know the ridges are need for flexibility but can a smooth cover but put over it?  Would make the tools so much easier to use.

     - Some better descriptions on your website would be nice too... you want an example?  How much coffee could I get to fit inside the Festool Thermos that costs $18???  If you wanna use liters that's fine with me as I can convert it.  If you don't wanna use numbers (just being cynical here) have and average size hand hold the thermos and I'll just guess.  Again... probably not a hard thing to fix....

     - Trion Jigsaw...   Now this is a gripe.  I know others have talked about how they've learned to use it (Love you Per, but...) but this tool is ridiculous.  Cuts awesome just not always cutting where you want it to cut.  I guess this is an area where it really depends on what you are trying to do.  Christian... I would love to see a video of you or another festool guy trying to cut a toe kick out of a cabinet end panel.  I know you guys in germany don't build'em the way we do here in the states but there has to be times where you might use a  jigsaw to cut a notch, don't you think?  Go ahead and rig that thing up with dust collection, chip prevention and cut me a 4" X 3" notch in a piece of plywood.  It needs to look nice, be a 90 degree notch with no over cut from either line.  After you get over the frustration of lining the saw up to even start the cut let's count how many times you move the saw forwards and backwards to make this simple notch cut.  I do a lot of these on the road so setting up a bandsaw  with a bunch of stops, etc. isn't an option.  I could make a guide template that I clamp to the panel and just hold my saw against but that's not really fair is it.  How about making the saw to where I can use it to cut on a couple of small lines that I've taken my precious time to draw out.  I really do expect to see a reply from you on this Christian. 

Chris...

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Jig Saw:

I would like to be able to have the base slide backward on the Trion 300 to make a flush cut..or come close with an offset blade.  The splinter guards are great but sometimes it is hard to see the cut line...an LED light would be nice...might aid the splinger guard issue.

Thanks
Ed

The lack of an LED light is what made me chose a Makita jigsaw last year over Festool.  I anticipated using my saw many times in poor ambient light conditions, and have not regretted my choice.  The Makita usesaccepts the same bayonet blade attachment design.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

   Chris...  - Saw base metal contact with the guide rail is a problem.  I don't like how much wear the little metal nibs on the baseplate of my TS is getting.

My TS 55 saw has the same issue, and Festool indicated it is common in this design.  The slop in my unit is due to the swivel hinge pin mechanism that joins the saw motor/arbor to the base plate.  The result of that slop is a rougher cut than would otherwise occur, e.g. when trimming a passage or outside door.  Festool could use reaming process to final fit these components to eliminate the slop.

 

[headhog70]

The user manuals.  Thank goodness for sites like woodshopdemos and others that pick up the slack.

The Router Depth Stop Turret has some "give" or spring to it.  This is really picky.  But I was use to my Porter Cable 7529 which has no give to the depth stop.  The OF 1400 has 0.012 inch of spring to it.  For example, if I put my 1/4 inch block on the turret to set a 1/4 inch plunge, I end up with a 0.262 plunge.  To get a real 1/4 inch cut, I have to put the 1/4 inch gauge block on the turret, and press down to compress it before setting the depth.  I am now use to this since I don't use my Porter Cable anymore.  But it caught me by surprise the first time.

 

[AHoman]

Chris wrote:

    I would love to see a video of you or another festool guy trying to cut a toe kick out of a cabinet end panel.  I know you guys in germany don't build'em the way we do here in the states but there has to be times where you might use a  jigsaw to cut a notch, don't you think?  Go ahead and rig that thing up with dust collection, chip prevention and cut me a 4" X 3" notch in a piece of plywood. 

Hi Chris,
I just got the Trion and have been testing it out in different applications.  Excuse me if my answer is naive -- I'm really new to this!  I have the barrel-grip version.  I would hold it upside-down under the board to accomplish the operation you described.

 

[Brian 57]

Complaints of the problem of visibility on the jigsaw, (for those like me who much prefer to aim their cut from the actual front of the blade), seem to recur. While I am a relative newby with Festool, it is the the one substantive niggle I've had with Festool equipment. Per Swenson and John Lucas have published different fixes for the perceived shortcoming, but it seems to me that they are (good) workrounds in respect of a design flaw.

 

[MarkusS]

The jigsaw - although I own one (Trion PS 300), I use it almost never. Whenever possible, I use the router or the circular saw, the results (quality of the cut) are better.

What I don't like is the Systainer / insert for the jigsaw. I own both the guide stop and the parallel stop for the jigsaw (my dealer throw them in as a bonus) and it's impossible to place these items in the insert - or the systainer. There is enough "air" in the insert, so with a different design it would be possible to have space for some common accessories in the insert - for example for the stops and for the box with the blade assortment Festool offers.

Regards
Mark

 

[Tinker]

Now back to Festool.

My complaint is the MFT is made for a man of European stature.

Less hormones and antibiotics in the milk over there.

It should be raised "bout 2 1/2 mebbe 3 inchs.

For all of yu "Giants" out there who find such difficulty in bending down to reach the MFT working height, there are a few of us who would need to chin ourselves to reach a higher working height.  I can think of several ways to raise a bench without causing any permanent damage; whereas, I can not think of a single way to lower any MFT, TableSaw, Bandsaw, etc without creating real problems.  As a matter of fact, the MFT seems to be just right for me.  Once in a while us short guys find something designed especially for us javascript:void(0);javascript:void(0);javascript:void(0);
Tinker
Per

Nah, you don't get it. Its a psychological ploy. They deliberately make them that height so that at the end of the day when back hurts from being bent over, you really feel like you went to work that day. You're supposed to get a sense of accomplishment out of it.

Everything today is made for shorter people. Being over 6' can be a PITA at times.

;D ;D

 

[art stratemeyer]

Just found the new forum .. nice to be out of "groups" !!

I've several of their proMy biggest gripe is that Festool seems to be that they are not willing to address the quasi "standards" of the american market.

Examples:

Shipping a vacuum with a @#$#@ pig tail ( why should I have to duct tape a multi-$100 machine ) when they could simply ship with a standard US plug. 

Why not tool a centronix adapter for the standard US market ??  Instead, they ship you a cheesy "converter" that defeats the purpose of a short chentronix chuck.

For the Domino that I just ordered .... they missed making a "dowel/tenon" that was as wide as the slot that is being mortised.  Thus missing a stronger joint for larger m/t work.

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi Art,

The plug on the Festool vac is a standard "American" 120v 20 amp plug available at any hardware, big box or electrical supply house.  By thoughtfully designing the auto start electronics on the vac to handle up to 20 amps means the vac and a high amp draw power tool can be used simultaneously if you are plugged into a a 20 amp recepticle.  Since many homes and shops are wired with 15 amp, instead of 20 amp, wall recepticles Festool also supplies a standard "American" 120v 20 amp to 15 amp pig tail cord.  The 20 amp capacity of the Festool vac also means it comes with a heavier and more expensive 12 ga wire cord than the lighter and smaller 16 or 14 ga cords that come on most vacs sold in this market. 

It is always amusing to me to walk through most big box store vac offerings and see the screaming signs proclaiming 5 or 6 "peak HP" and then look at the 14 ga wire and 15 amp plug on the cord.  One HP electrical is defined as drawing 760 watts.  To really be 6 HP that vac would have to be drawing 4560 watts or 30 amps which neither the cord nor the plug nor the 15 amp wall recepticle could support without quickly overheating.  That overly boastfull claim of 6 peak HP is the amp draw the tool would take just at the point that it burned up.  Thoughtfully, Festool does not resort to such over bloated claims and simply rates all their tools by the actual watt draw the tool can sustain in continuous operation day in and day out such as in our shops or studios.

The many advantages of the Centrotec chuck have been covered on several occasions which can be found in the archives.  In brief, the Festool cordless drills drive their chucks via a standard 1/4" hex shank built into the output shaft of the drill.  Each chuck, including the Centrotec, positively locks onto the drill body with the hex shank engaged in the receiver hole on the output shaft.  The Centrotec chuck is designed to recieve a long shank 1/4" hex shank bit which also has a bearing surface about an inch out from where the bit engages in the drive hole to stabilize the bit and provide needed support for proper concentricity.  To keep people from jamming a bit which does not have that bearing surface into the Centrotec chuck (which could tear up the bearing surface on the inside of the chuck) the Centrotec chuck and properly designed bits/drivers are designed so the distance across the points is slightly less than on standard 1/4" hex shank bits.  Since each bit must be made from a single piece of machine steel (unlike the cheap staked on hex shanks on many drill bits) few manufacturers other than Festool have yet elected to market bits specifically designed for the Centrotec chuck.  Hence, Festool thoughtfully includes an adapter with which you can use whatever hex shank bits you might have even though those bits will not be supported in two places like the properly designed Centrotec bits are.

Looking at the work you do I can't imagine that you would have any difficulty making wider loose tenons to fit the wide setting Domino mortise if you really want to.  The strength difference between the standard 10mm x 50mm Domino tenon that fits perfectly into the standard 10mm mortise cut by the Domino machine and one that would fit into the wide mortise setting would be far less than the strength added by simply placing two rather than one tenons in that location.  The limit, if you can call it that, is the Domino has a maximum depth of cut of less than 30mm so that is the maximum penetration the tenon can have into each of the two pieces being joined.  If they elected to increase the depth of cut the whole machine would have to become larger and heavier reducing its usefullness for most work.

Jerry

Just found the new forum .. nice to be out of "groups" !!

I've several of their proMy biggest gripe is that Festool seems to be that they are not willing to address the quasi "standards" of the american market.

Examples:

Shipping a vacuum with a @#$#@ pig tail ( why should I have to duct tape a multi-$100 machine ) when they could simply ship with a standard US plug. 

Why not tool a centronix adapter for the standard US market ??  Instead, they ship you a cheesy "converter" that defeats the purpose of a short chentronix chuck.

For the Domino that I just ordered .... they missed making a "dowel/tenon" that was as wide as the slot that is being mortised.  Thus missing a stronger joint for larger m/t work.