What else do you buy?
- Thread starter tvgordon
- Start date
Like Fred, I collected and traded knives for some time. After some of the prices I've seen for custom folders, Festool seemed like a bargain ;D.
My other indulgence as an amateur naturalist, Leica and Swarovski optics.
For me it was about getting the quality and performance I need for what I wanted to achieve.
My other indulgence as an amateur naturalist, Leica and Swarovski optics.
For me it was about getting the quality and performance I need for what I wanted to achieve.
turbogeezer
Member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
- Messages
- 18
Interesting that Apple got mentioned. As a long-time Apple user (from 1989, and only on my 3rd computer), what I realized about Festool is that the corporate/design/marketing approach is similar to Apple in this way: It's a system. With Apple, everything's pretty much gonna work anywhere from pretty well to perfectly. They design the hardware, they design the software.
When I went looking to set up a new compact shop, I was looking at a new circ saw, but I wanted to see if I could get by without a table saw. Well, I'd need a guide rail for the saw -- there's a good one made by Veritas in Lee Valley's catalog. Oh -- and LV also has a nifty chop-saw attachment for perfect 90-deg crosscuts with a circ saw. And they also have an adjustable miter guide for same. Let's see... also need adapter plates for the saw and maybe a router to fit 'em to that guide rail. I want to cut circles, so I'll need a circle-cutting attachment from somebody else - now, which model routers does it actually fit? I don't have room for a table saw, but I'll need a bench. And lotsa clamps.
Well, I was aware of Festool way in the back of my mind all that time. No way - too expensive! But when I added up the circ saw, guide rail, and adapter plates, I was maybe $150 away from a TS55 with a rail and a systainer. And the availability of the fits-everything CT22 addressed the dust-collection issue that I was mentally avoiding. Everything is designed to work together. The April 1 price hike helped me slippery-slope from the TS55 to a total of 6 tools - more if you count the MFS as a tool, rather than an accessory.
At this point I'm waiting on a MFT/3. Projects await. This went a bit off-topic, so I think I'll copy and post some of this to the "how did you start?" thread, as well.
My shorter answer to the What Else do You Buy question would be:
Computers: Apple
Clothes: LL Bean, Orvis, Willis & Geiger before they folded
Photo: Nikon (plus a totally lovable compact Ricoh GR-D)
Kitchen: Global knives / Berndes pots & pans
Personal EDC items: Leatherman, Rotring, Fenix flashlight, old-school RPN HP48 or HP11 calculator
Cordless tools: Bosch & Milwaukee
One corded - but non-green - tool: Fein MultiMaster
Radios & speakers: Tivoli Audio; Cambridge Soundworks (The model 12 can kick many species of posterior)
lots of Robertson screws & bolts from McFeelys
and a Safari Trek diesel-powered camper.
- turbogeezer in Alaska
When I went looking to set up a new compact shop, I was looking at a new circ saw, but I wanted to see if I could get by without a table saw. Well, I'd need a guide rail for the saw -- there's a good one made by Veritas in Lee Valley's catalog. Oh -- and LV also has a nifty chop-saw attachment for perfect 90-deg crosscuts with a circ saw. And they also have an adjustable miter guide for same. Let's see... also need adapter plates for the saw and maybe a router to fit 'em to that guide rail. I want to cut circles, so I'll need a circle-cutting attachment from somebody else - now, which model routers does it actually fit? I don't have room for a table saw, but I'll need a bench. And lotsa clamps.
Well, I was aware of Festool way in the back of my mind all that time. No way - too expensive! But when I added up the circ saw, guide rail, and adapter plates, I was maybe $150 away from a TS55 with a rail and a systainer. And the availability of the fits-everything CT22 addressed the dust-collection issue that I was mentally avoiding. Everything is designed to work together. The April 1 price hike helped me slippery-slope from the TS55 to a total of 6 tools - more if you count the MFS as a tool, rather than an accessory.
At this point I'm waiting on a MFT/3. Projects await. This went a bit off-topic, so I think I'll copy and post some of this to the "how did you start?" thread, as well.
My shorter answer to the What Else do You Buy question would be:
Computers: Apple
Clothes: LL Bean, Orvis, Willis & Geiger before they folded
Photo: Nikon (plus a totally lovable compact Ricoh GR-D)
Kitchen: Global knives / Berndes pots & pans
Personal EDC items: Leatherman, Rotring, Fenix flashlight, old-school RPN HP48 or HP11 calculator
Cordless tools: Bosch & Milwaukee
One corded - but non-green - tool: Fein MultiMaster
Radios & speakers: Tivoli Audio; Cambridge Soundworks (The model 12 can kick many species of posterior)
lots of Robertson screws & bolts from McFeelys
and a Safari Trek diesel-powered camper.
- turbogeezer in Alaska
Turbogeezer, welcome aboard the board. 
I love seeing users on the board from Alaska. I spent my formative years, 57-70 there though only being one year old when I arrived I don't remember too about that year. We lived in both Fairbanks and Anchorage and having now lived in 10 of our fair states and visited all 50 Alaska is still my favorite. Fred
I love seeing users on the board from Alaska. I spent my formative years, 57-70 there though only being one year old when I arrived I don't remember too about that year. We lived in both Fairbanks and Anchorage and having now lived in 10 of our fair states and visited all 50 Alaska is still my favorite. FredJayStPeter
Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2007
- Messages
- 399
Beer, Sunglasses and tools are where I really push the high end. Most other stuff is well researched best-bang-for-the-buck kind of stuff. Many brands mentioned in this thread fall into that category. For reference, I would consider that category to be something like Milwaukee or Dewalt for tools but the true high-end is Festool.
John Langevin
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 246
I am a QUALITY NUT having been a Quality Engineer/Manager in aerospace for my most of my life after learning gunmaking, toolmaking, and inspection. I sometimes have to rein myself in when purchasing different things to keep from going overboard.
I am especially willing to spend extra for quality for things I hold in my hands: cameras (Canon A-1, Rollei), firearms (Belgian Browning/FN, Sig-Sauer), fishing tackle (Quick Reels/St. Croix rods), optics (Leupold, Zeiss, Leica) etc. The food and drink I put in my mouth ( Fine California, AUS/NZ wines, French Champagne, Filet Mignon etc.) In other words things that delight my senses. These things are a pleasure to just look at, hold in your hands, use or ingest for sensory gratification.
With the tools, cameras, firearms etc. the quality of design and material, excellence in manufacture and superior function give me confidence that I will obtain the desired result which diminishes any apprehension about the task at hand.
When teaching management students about quality it is disappointing to me how many of them really don't know what it is. The definition can be worded in different ways to describe the particular topic being discussed but it really comes down to:
Fitness for Use/Conformance to ALL REQUIREMENTS.
Far from being wealthy I must be convinced that the extra money really buys me quality, value, performance, and durability. it kills me to see what some people are willing to pay for a Rolex watch when an Omega is actually a better watch. To each his own perception of quality and the value equation.
I am especially willing to spend extra for quality for things I hold in my hands: cameras (Canon A-1, Rollei), firearms (Belgian Browning/FN, Sig-Sauer), fishing tackle (Quick Reels/St. Croix rods), optics (Leupold, Zeiss, Leica) etc. The food and drink I put in my mouth ( Fine California, AUS/NZ wines, French Champagne, Filet Mignon etc.) In other words things that delight my senses. These things are a pleasure to just look at, hold in your hands, use or ingest for sensory gratification.
With the tools, cameras, firearms etc. the quality of design and material, excellence in manufacture and superior function give me confidence that I will obtain the desired result which diminishes any apprehension about the task at hand.
When teaching management students about quality it is disappointing to me how many of them really don't know what it is. The definition can be worded in different ways to describe the particular topic being discussed but it really comes down to:
Fitness for Use/Conformance to ALL REQUIREMENTS.
Far from being wealthy I must be convinced that the extra money really buys me quality, value, performance, and durability. it kills me to see what some people are willing to pay for a Rolex watch when an Omega is actually a better watch. To each his own perception of quality and the value equation.
Whatever product that I can get the most quality for the money. Sometimes that's not possible for me due to extravagent prices. I own a John Deere lawn tractor (not the cheap versions being sold at Home Depot,...), Nice camera setup for land and SCUBA use, home appliances/electronics, furniture (that I didn't build myself), quality wood, quality finishing products, ....
Bicycles. Huge difference in quality between the low end components and the high-end. Once you try DuraAce (Shimano) or Record (Campy) you don't go back even though it pains me everytime I buy consumables (chains, cassettes, pads, etc). Frame materials are an entirely different rat hole...
Tim
Riding in the rain in PDX...
Tim
Riding in the rain in PDX...
tschallb said:
Yeah, Tim, and like so many other top-end products, they don't look that much different from the lesser stuff. No one who hasn't tried them can understand why they're worth the big bucks. You can't convince them by talking, in fact, you may not be able to put into words the difference. But difference there is.
BTW, that's why Festools have to be demonstrated, and test drives allowed.
Oh, and welcome to FOG!
Ned
Michael Kellough
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 7,101
Ned Young said:
Anyone who can make this distinction (and I think that includes everyone reading this, in the FOG)
is just a test drive away from upgrading to a Mac.
AKEDA Dovetail Jig
Unlike the DOMINO which looks like a
familiar tool but definitely isn't, the
AKEDA DT jig doesn't look like any
of the other dovetail jigs. Because
it's design were based on additional
criteria overlooked by other dovetail
jig makers it looks Unfamiliar and
therefore suspect - why buy a pig
in a poke? It does exactly the same
job as the others, only it does it
much easier. But because it doesn't
have all the levers and screws and
sliding parts and vernier scales etc.
(because the design eliminated all
that) and doesn't weigh 60 0r 70
pounds and doesn't come with a
manual - that's 163 pages of 8.5x11,
because that isn't needed in order
to cut dovetails with this jig - folks
shy away from The Unknown.
If you've not seen the AKEDA or
any details about it, here's the
URL to more than you probably
ever wanted to know.
http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/AKEDAdtJig/AKEDAdovetailJig1.html
The Glen-Drake Tite-Mark(tm) is another
"more expensive than" tool. Looks like
several other, less expensive. wheeled
marking tools - but does what they do
so much more easily and accurately
- AND does things the others can't.
http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/MT/MTprimer10b.html
I'd also have to put JoinTech's Cabinet
Maker System (router table fence and
precision positionable fence device) in
this catagory of "apparently more
expensive" catagory. It doesn't look
like a "regular" router table fence
but it does everything a "regular" fence
can do PLUS a hell of a lot more - and
do all of them more safely because
it also has easily replaceable, and
inexpensive, zero clearance fence
inserts.
http://www.jointech.com/
Oh - and I can't forget a good dovetail
saw. the Lie-Nielsen saw, while
considerably more expensive than a
$10 "gents saw" you CAN make work
fairly well, comes ready to go and
everything about it is there to make
it easier to cut a straight line - where
YOU want it. You still have to do some
work as well, but you won't have to
fight the saw to do it. The same goes
for a good japanese dovetail saw - that
works on the pull stroke - like the Toshio
Odate dovetail saw.
I've bought a fair number of tools, and
spent more than a fair number of dollars
on them. I've learned that when it comes
to tools - you can do your homework and
pay "more" up front in order to avoid
"paying" more later - in frustration and
aggravation along with parts you made
that you can't use - read "useable wood
into scrap wood". You're gonna pay one
way or the other so why not spend the
money on a tool or machine that will
do what you want to do easily - and
pocket the time saved and use it for
DOING and not SET UP or COMPENSATING.
This approach has a secondary benefit.
When I find a tool that does something
I can already do - but lets me do it with
out much frustration or drama - I get
it. Then I find a woodworker with more
passion and talent than disposable
income and I give him or her the tool
I upgraded from. Makes life a little
easier for them and I don't have to
hassle with selling or trading it.
The added fun of the confusion this
transaction causes the recipient
"You're GIVING this to me? Why?
- Hey! Where'd he go? Who was that
masked man?" And occassionally
throwing in "Hi-Ho-Silver" as I depart
- well THAT is priceless. Try it -
it's really a lot of fun!
Unlike the DOMINO which looks like a
familiar tool but definitely isn't, the
AKEDA DT jig doesn't look like any
of the other dovetail jigs. Because
it's design were based on additional
criteria overlooked by other dovetail
jig makers it looks Unfamiliar and
therefore suspect - why buy a pig
in a poke? It does exactly the same
job as the others, only it does it
much easier. But because it doesn't
have all the levers and screws and
sliding parts and vernier scales etc.
(because the design eliminated all
that) and doesn't weigh 60 0r 70
pounds and doesn't come with a
manual - that's 163 pages of 8.5x11,
because that isn't needed in order
to cut dovetails with this jig - folks
shy away from The Unknown.
If you've not seen the AKEDA or
any details about it, here's the
URL to more than you probably
ever wanted to know.
http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/AKEDAdtJig/AKEDAdovetailJig1.html
The Glen-Drake Tite-Mark(tm) is another
"more expensive than" tool. Looks like
several other, less expensive. wheeled
marking tools - but does what they do
so much more easily and accurately
- AND does things the others can't.
http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/MT/MTprimer10b.html
I'd also have to put JoinTech's Cabinet
Maker System (router table fence and
precision positionable fence device) in
this catagory of "apparently more
expensive" catagory. It doesn't look
like a "regular" router table fence
but it does everything a "regular" fence
can do PLUS a hell of a lot more - and
do all of them more safely because
it also has easily replaceable, and
inexpensive, zero clearance fence
inserts.
http://www.jointech.com/
Oh - and I can't forget a good dovetail
saw. the Lie-Nielsen saw, while
considerably more expensive than a
$10 "gents saw" you CAN make work
fairly well, comes ready to go and
everything about it is there to make
it easier to cut a straight line - where
YOU want it. You still have to do some
work as well, but you won't have to
fight the saw to do it. The same goes
for a good japanese dovetail saw - that
works on the pull stroke - like the Toshio
Odate dovetail saw.
I've bought a fair number of tools, and
spent more than a fair number of dollars
on them. I've learned that when it comes
to tools - you can do your homework and
pay "more" up front in order to avoid
"paying" more later - in frustration and
aggravation along with parts you made
that you can't use - read "useable wood
into scrap wood". You're gonna pay one
way or the other so why not spend the
money on a tool or machine that will
do what you want to do easily - and
pocket the time saved and use it for
DOING and not SET UP or COMPENSATING.
This approach has a secondary benefit.
When I find a tool that does something
I can already do - but lets me do it with
out much frustration or drama - I get
it. Then I find a woodworker with more
passion and talent than disposable
income and I give him or her the tool
I upgraded from. Makes life a little
easier for them and I don't have to
hassle with selling or trading it.
The added fun of the confusion this
transaction causes the recipient
"You're GIVING this to me? Why?
- Hey! Where'd he go? Who was that
masked man?" And occassionally
throwing in "Hi-Ho-Silver" as I depart
- well THAT is priceless. Try it -
it's really a lot of fun!
tvgordon said:
Hi,
Nope, various trials and tribulations. Bankrupt in 2002. I have the CR-7A, and RX-505. Both the top in those particular lines. The CR-7A is one notch below the Dragon. But I prefer the CR-7A. The Dragon actually has a bit too much adjustment for me and it lacked a couple nice features compared to the CR-7A. Funny story goes with those- I bought them both on the same day from the same dealer. Way back when I was in high school, but had a job and money to burn. I paid cash, the salesmans jaw just about hit the floor when I said "I'll take both" and started counting out hundreds. Aaaah, those were the days
Seth
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