what grit order for ROTEX 150 and ETS EC 150/3?

[Stevenscustomguitars]

Hello,

I've never quite settled on a system. I'm stripping a previously sanded floor just to get rid of the stain and oil.

I'm starting with 80g with the Rotex in RO mode (ungeared).

I was planning on then going Rotex RO at 120g.

In order to get rid of scratches do i need to finish with the ETS 150/3? in the past i've jumped down to 80g on the ETS and finished with 120 but i don't know if that's overkill. It does mean 4 times over the whole floor.

Any advice / opinions appreciated.

The finish will be Osmo Poly-x 3044 raw followed by satin clear.
Cheers
Dave

 

[squall_line]

Depending on the square footage, my arm already hurts just thinking about doing an entire floor with a RO150 and/or ETS EC 150.

Usually the lower grits are what are used for rotary/rotex (geared) mode, and the higher grits in Random to clean up the swirl marks left by the rotary mode.

I believe the RO 150's Random is a 5mm stroke compared to the 3mm stroke of the 150/3.  150/3 is going to get a finer finish.

I'm definitely not an expert, but I would have guessed the "correct" order would be RO150 in rotex mode with 80 grit, then 150/3 in random at 120 grit, and then you're done.

Alternatively,  RO150 in rotary at 80 grit, then in random at 120 grit and be done.  Unless you have a highly discerning pet or baby or your guests do pushups on that floor, I'm having a hard time believing that one would be able to tell the difference between a 5mm and 3mm stroke on a floor.

Again, I have no experience, just thinking it through out loud...

 

[AlexThePalex]

Rotex with 180 should do fine to finish the floor.

 

[Peter_C]

I have an RO150 and it is absolutely useless for sanding floors. A drum type floor sander is the right tool, along with an edge sander. Plus a floor buffer type sander for the final sander. Those are the tools a pro would use and are available to any happy home owner for rent.

Go watch some of "How to sand floors" videos on youtube.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

My Rotex almost never sees abrasive finer than 60-80 because I only use it for hard stock removal. I start at 80 with my 150/3 and go up from there. Depending on the project I might stop at 150 or 180. Sometimes I go higher for specific reasons.

 

[GarryMartin]

If you're removing a finish, you might want to start lower, maybe P40-P60; P80 is a good starting point for bare wood. Osmo don't recommend going higher than P120 for final sanding of a floor.

Here are two references that might be useful to you.
https://www.sandpaper.com/articles/grit-sequence-let-grit-do-the-hard-work-for-you/https://osmouk.com/pdf/floor-care.pdf

You've got some good advice in some of the other replies;

I'd definitely consider hiring a large floor or drum sander unless the floor area is quite small or you want to save some cash and your labour is free. If you take this route, make sure you match the grits on the drum sander to the same grit on your RO to do the edges.

The RO 150 is a 5mm stroke in random orbit mode, as does the ETS 150/5. The ETS 150/3 is a 3mm orbit, the RO 125 is 3.6mm, and the ETS 125 is 2mm or 2.5mm (never been able to verify this as different markets have different specifications for some reason...)

For flooring, going to P120, I'd just stick with the RO 150; no need for the 3mm stroke on your fine sander.

If you're trying to minimise the cost of sandpaper by minimising required grits, I'd personally go P40, P80, P120.

Oh, and a hard pad!

 

[Stevenscustomguitars]

Thanks for all the thoughts.

Just to clarify on a drum sander - I know that is technically the right tool for that job; I've used them many times before and I hate them. The boards are 100 yrs old, a mixture of pine and pitch pine and have character and I always find a drum sander just flattens everything too much and takes too much off. I don't want it to look like a laminate floor Now if i was working in a massive space I would reconsider.

The idea that the Rotex is useless for sanding floors isn't true at all. It's just slower and a different way of working and you have to be up for doing it. I stripped a 5x4m floor in about 2 hours on 80g RO. In geared mode it would have taken less time. Obviously the drum sander would be quicker but I don't find the Rotex hard work at all.

I was just really interested in what grit order people use if going from Rotex to 150/3 as 120g on the Rotex RO, to my eyes, leaves some visible scratches that 120 on the ETS 150/3 doesn't always remove.

 

[Stevenscustomguitars]

My Rotex almost never sees abrasive finer than 60-80 because I only use it for hard stock removal. I start at 80 with my 150/3 and go up from there. Depending on the project I might stop at 150 or 180. Sometimes I go higher for specific reasons.

If you use 60g on the Rotex in geared mode do you find that the 150/3 at 80g removes the scratches. Or would you go to 60g Rotex RO mode?

 

[Stevenscustomguitars]

Osmo don't recommend going higher than P120 for final sanding of a floor.

For flooring, going to P120, I'd just stick with the RO 150; no need for the 3mm stroke on your fine sander.

Defintely, I always stop on 120g with Osmo, besides anything more on floors is too slippy for my kids in socks!  [big grin]
Recently I've been applying the first coat of Osmo with a Mirka Mirlon abrasive pad. Seems to leave a nicer finish, no need to de-nib and then I brush the second clear coat on and wipe off any excess.

I guess i'll try 120 on Rotex and have a good look at the surface and decide if it needs more.

Thanks.

 

[mike_aa]

[member=60061]daveychainsaw[/member]  Not sure where you are located, but if in the US, I had really good luck with this machine.  It's like strapping four RO150's together in one pass.
https://www.u-sand.com/

Not as common as a drum sander, but there are some places that rent them.  A bonus is it sands really close to the edges pretty muck eliminating the need for an additional floor edging grinders.  The only drawback I see for you is it does have a tendency to nicely flatten things out (no divot like a drum sander), and you mentioned you wanted a bit of character in the floor you are doing. 

Good luck!

Mike A.

 

[jarbroen]

I just recently did the kitchen portion of my maple hardwood floors with the Rotex 150 and the ETS EC 150/3.
2 years ago I did a section of new and blended floors where I'd enclosed a covered deck area.  The kitchen was waiting until the cabinets were replaced which I did earlier this year.

Anyway, I had completely forgotten the tricks I had learned from the first run of floor sanding and had to re-learn. 
The first pass I did with the Rotex I skipped from 40 to 80 and then to 120.  Rotex mode on 40 and 80.
After my wife put Osmo on the floor it looked like DOOKIE!  The 40 grit swirls were everywhere, along with some nasty pigtails.
Before I threw my sander at the wall I decided to research.  I can't find the video, but there is a gentleman that made a really good video of how to use the Rotex (maybe a more organized member has that link saved).
The cliff notes are:
-Don't skip grits.  If you start with 40 go to 60, then 80 and then 120
-Use Rotex mode on all passes
-Start in Rotex mode with the pad on the wood(reduces the risk for tipping/gouging)
-Left to right followed by top to bottom passes in all grits
-Keep the pad moving.  Not in a hurry, but don't linger
-'Let the tool do the work'. This is one tip I have to constantly remind myself of.  There's no need to put your weight into it.

On my maple floors after my learning lesson I did 40 in Rotex, gets the old finish off.  Followed with 60, 80 and 120 in Rotex mode.
I also finished with a pass in RO with my ETS EC 150.  120 isn't a high grit and I didn't want to leave the chance of noticeable, circular marks from the Rotex.
Oh, forgot to mention.  The oops turned out to be a benefit(other than my wasted time).  I told my wife I needed to pick up the Festool inspection light. . It really helped me check my work as I went through the grits.
My wife finished with Osmo Poly-X for the second time and the floors look awesome!

I have another half of the main floor that needs to be refinished... Not sure I have the desire to sand on my knees for days.  I might rent a big disc sander for that run.

 

[Chainring]

I can't find the video, but there is a gentleman that made a really good video of how to use the Rotex (maybe a more organized member has that link saved).

Are you referring to the video by Larry Smith from Festool? It's not a floor sanding video, but definitely with the Rotex and he talks about not skipping grits on the low end.

 

[Cheese]

It's definitely worth 13 minutes of your time.  [smile]

 

[Sci]

My Rotex almost never sees abrasive finer than 60-80 because I only use it for hard stock removal. I start at 80 with my 150/3 and go up from there. Depending on the project I might stop at 150 or 180. Sometimes I go higher for specific reasons.

This is the way!

 

[Stevenscustomguitars]

On my maple floors after my learning lesson I did 40 in Rotex, gets the old finish off.  Followed with 60, 80 and 120 in Rotex mode.
I also finished with a pass in RO with my ETS EC 150.  120 isn't a high grit and I didn't want to leave the chance of noticeable, circular marks from the Rotex.

Thanks for all that advice Jarbroen. I didn't need to be as aggressive with this floor so stuck with RO mode n 80g.

[member=60061]daveychainsaw[/member]  Not sure where you are located, but if in the US, I had really good luck with this machine.  It's like strapping four RO150's together in one pass.
https://www.u-sand.com/
Mike A.

I'm in the UK, interesting looking machine!

To boil down my question, if i'm at 80g RO on the Rotex, what is the best next path.

Rotex 120g RO

Rotex 120g RO > ETS 150/s 120g

Rotex 120g RO > ETS 150/s 80g > ETS 150/s 120g

ETS 150/s 80g > ETS 150/s 120g

is there any merit in stepping down a grit when going Rotex RO to 150/3?

Thanks all for the thougts, it's been really interesting.

 

[jarbroen]

I can't find the video, but there is a gentleman that made a really good video of how to use the Rotex (maybe a more organized member has that link saved).

Are you referring to the video by Larry Smith from Festool? It's not a floor sanding video, but definitely with the Rotex and he talks about not skipping grits on the low end.

Yes, that one!  And thanks to Cheese for posting it.
One of the best videos I've seen for getting the most out of the tool.  Really makes the Rotex shine as a sander.

If you're at 80 grit with Rotex mode do a pass with 120 grit in Rotex.  Inspect the work(inspection light, mineral spirits?).  If you see the circular marks from the 120 in Rotex then a pass with 120 in orbital(either sander) should clear that up.  I use the ETS EC 150 for the final orbital pass.  Probably quicker to click the switch on the Rotex, but the ETSEC is more comfortable to use and gives a 'fresh' sheet.
Oh, that was another tip I learned.  Vacuum the floors between each pass.  Even with the Festool sanders there is still grit, dust, etc. that can be left behind to ruin your next pass.

 

[Stevenscustomguitars]

If you're at 80 grit with Rotex mode do a pass with 120 grit in Rotex.  Inspect the work(inspection light, mineral spirits?).  If you see the circular marks from the 120 in Rotex then a pass with 120 in orbital(either sander) should clear that up.  I use the ETS EC 150 for the final orbital pass.  Probably quicker to click the switch on the Rotex, but the ETSEC is more comfortable to use and gives a 'fresh' sheet.
Oh, that was another tip I learned.  Vacuum the floors between each pass.  Even with the Festool sanders there is still grit, dust, etc. that can be left behind to ruin your next pass.

Thanks Jarbroen. All i've done so far is 80g on the rotex in RO mode, cleaned it up quicker than the 150/3 and these floors didn't need Rotex mode.

I guess I'll try 120g on the Rotex in RO mode and 120g on the 150/3 and see if i can tell any difference under my inspection light. And agreed on vacuuming in between grits. I normally vacuum a lot as i don't want any grit getting under the sander.

Thanks all.