What happened to my rails?!

[Locks14]

It's a shame Festool don't make their saws to run on the Bosch/Mafell rails. Bosch/Mafell saws are able to run on both rail systems.  This way Festool users could use Bosch rails which join together in a much better fashion.

    Festool saws and rails predate Bosch, Mafell, Makita, DeWalt, and others. It was Bosch and Mafell that designed their rails deliberately to be one-way compatible, as did DeWalt.

It's not about who was first. It's the fact that Bosch/Mafell came up with a better rail design than Festool have. Despite this, they still made it possible for Bosch/Mafell saws to run on tracks from other manufacturers like Festool to give greater options to the user. Since the Bosch/Mafell rails have been out a while it is not unreasonable for Festool to update their saw base to run on Bosch/Mafell tracks so that their customersalso  have the option to use both.

Your post makes it sound like you think Bosch/Mafell are in the wrong for not defaulting to Festool's track design, even though they came up with something better?

 

[Kev]

Can someone please post a link to the Bosch and Mafell user forums please ... I think a few people here are lost.

 

[semenza]

No reason this threads needs to go down the rabbit hole.  [poke]

[member=28856]Pizza Steve[/member]  have you attempted to flatten them?

Seth

 

[joiner1970]

Can someone please post a link to the Bosch and Mafell user forums please ... I think a few people here are lost.

Lol nice one [emoji1]

 

[mouppe]

It's a shame Festool don't make their saws to run on the Bosch/Mafell rails. Bosch/Mafell saws are able to run on both rail systems.  This way Festool users could use Bosch rails which join together in a much better fashion.

Festool saws and rails predate Bosch, Mafell, Makita, DeWalt, and others. It was Bosch and Mafell that designed their rails deliberately to be one-way compatible, as did DeWalt.

I've never had a problem connecting the Festool rails, but I've never liked or fully trusted the straightness of the cuts. I use a three foot straight-edge when joining the rails, but over a ten-foot rip even this is not really accurate enough. If I was regularly cutting long lengths I would buy a long rail, but a couple of joined shorter rails works for me on the odd occasion I need to rip a long cut.

I think there are better ways to join the rails, but for some reason Festool don't seem interested in pursuing them. We've been through several generations of tracksaws and rails but the connectors haven't changed.

 

[heiko1974]

Hello,
Mafell have only one saw that fits on Festool rails the other only work with Mafell rails! The Mafell MT55 and the Bosch GKT55 doesn't work 100% on Festool rail, they only rest on one glidestrip and get out of 90°, also the pivot point goes to low, because the rails have a different high!

Heiko

 

[Darren1972]

Heres the simple answer dont over tighten the screws end of ..next

 

[VW mick]

I've never had a problem with mine

Either overtightening or alignment

And I bought a 3m rail to be double sure on long cuts

 

[Holmz]

Heres the simple answer dont over tighten the screws end of ..next

The more elegant answer is that the rails were not designed to minimize user error.
It is (nearly) impossible to over tighten or misalign the Bosch/Mafell rails.
So it is therefore a better design, but to a careful user it may not matter...

 

[glass1]

Get the makita connectors. Don't look back. The festool ones are garbage. Oh wait heirloom quality.

 

[sancho57]

glass,

We have classified folder here so you can sell all the the festools you have.

Then you can go buy whatever tools you feel are better.

Ill give a cool $10 for the connectors.

I got a lot of rails and I can always use a few more connectors.

Im sure you will be able to get rid of your festools fairly quickly .

Thats the same with the rest of the folks who are unhappy with theirs.

As Im looking for a few more Ill be checking the classifieds to see how many of you post what you don't like and are selling.

 

[weekendwarrior]

Well, I called up Festool yesterday to discuss my concerns and I can confirm for the non-believers that they actually do have a person, [member=47173]Brent Shively[/member], who exists IRL!  [big grin]

The bumps are slightly convex on the top side of the t-track, which is the area I'm most concerned due to potential interference with with rail adapters.  I've slid my TS75 across and I don't think it's going to knock off my cuts currently.  I can still see a tiny bit of daylight between the rail and saw base.  With my feeler gauge I measured the clearance about 0.50mm.  If there was questionable clearance I would take the risk of trying to smooth the bumps.  I'm done these inferior connectors so my troubles are done and damage appears only cosmetic.

For all those looking to pick up my slightly used connectors (only once tightened!), please check Amazon used sales next month.  [smile]

I'm going to DIY one of the two sided guide rail connectors here: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/homemade-guide-rail-connectors-(not-your-typical-ones).  If I kept the Festool connectors I would substitute the rubber tipped grub screws.

The Festool connectors are clearly a poorly engineered solution.  Now, people can use them fine, which is great for them.  It's just not mistake proof.  The guide rail connector has been on the market for so long it's due for a two-pieced upgrade and it wouldn't break compatibility like changing rail shapes to a superior design.  If Festool's basic aluminum extrusions were less expensive then I wouldn't care about this and would treat them more like consumables.  I assure you I only tightened the grub screws to the point that the steel stopped wiggling in the t-track.

One idea presented was that Festool changed from hex head to slotted head so users wouldn't overtighten.  If Festool refuses to retool their manufacturing to accommodate a connector redesign, I'd recommend to change screws again, use rubber tips, and specify a torque wrench setting to get these correct.  Not that I'll have a chance to test it out, I would be interested to hear what the torque should be on these set screws that reliably avoid rail damage.

 

[Cheese]

One idea presented was that Festool changed from hex head to slotted head so users wouldn't overtighten. 

I think you're referring to my post. If so, I believe Festool has always used slotted head set screws for the rail joiners. It's just their simple way at limiting the torque that can be applied.

If you're a 2 person mom & pop shop fabricating rail joiners, then a slotted head fastener is a viable approach. If you're an international company fabricating state-of-the-art industrial equipment, then you need to find a better method.

At any rate, you're heading the right direction by fabbing you own 2-piece joiners. [thumbs up]

 

[Darren1972]

Well, I called up Festool yesterday to discuss my concerns and I can confirm for the non-believers that they actually do have a person, [member=47173]Brent Shively[/member], who exists IRL!  [big grin]

The bumps are slightly convex on the top side of the t-track, which is the area I'm most concerned due to potential interference with with rail adapters.  I've slid my TS75 across and I don't think it's going to knock off my cuts currently.  I can still see a tiny bit of daylight between the rail and saw base.  With my feeler gauge I measured the clearance about 0.50mm.  If there was questionable clearance I would take the risk of trying to smooth the bumps.  I'm done these inferior connectors so my troubles are done and damage appears only cosmetic.

For all those looking to pick up my slightly used connectors (only once tightened!), please check Amazon used sales next month.  [smile]

I'm going to DIY one of the two sided guide rail connectors here: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/homemade-guide-rail-connectors-(not-your-typical-ones).  If I kept the Festool connectors I would substitute the rubber tipped grub screws.

The Festool connectors are clearly a poorly engineered solution.  Now, people can use them fine, which is great for them.  It's just not mistake proof.  The guide rail connector has been on the market for so long it's due for a two-pieced upgrade and it wouldn't break compatibility like changing rail shapes to a superior design.  If Festool's basic aluminum extrusions were less expensive then I wouldn't care about this and would treat them more like consumables.  I assure you I only tightened the grub screws to the point that the steel stopped wiggling in the t-track.

One idea presented was that Festool changed from hex head to slotted head so users wouldn't overtighten.  If Festool refuses to retool their manufacturing to accommodate a connector redesign, I'd recommend to change screws again, use rubber tips, and specify a torque wrench setting to get these correct.  Not that I'll have a chance to test it out, I would be interested to hear what the torque should be on these set screws that reliably avoid rail damage.

jeez louise if ya cant tighten a screw without damaging a peice of aliminum that bad as to mark the opposite side of the rail theres somthing wrong somewhere dont need a torque wrench or a micrometer just nip the screw up ffs looking at the pics i think you must os used an impact driver

 

[weekendwarrior]

Impact driver lol!

When I tightened one screw, I was able to wiggle the connector.  I tightend the second screw to no wiggle, then tightened the first one up to pick up slack.  The second side of the connector I had to do by feeling.  It's an even result on both rails, so it appears I was at least consistent.  [unsure]

The other possibility- now that I think about it: I had to physically pick up the connected rail piece a few times and move it & flip it over to a side station, etc.  It's quite possible that during movement the weight of the rails caused it to bend, which provided additional moment arm pressure concentrated on the exact set screw locations, exacerbated the effect on the soft metal.

When I run my finger across the spider web-looking deformations I can only feel a noticeable lift on 1 or 2 of the 8 total screw locations.  The others really are cosmetic or miniscule.  There's no way I'm taking any more chances.  There are better idiot-proof solutions possible.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

When I tightened one screw, I was able to wiggle the connector.  I tightend the second screw to no wiggle, then tightened the first one up to pick up slack.  The second side of the connector I had to do by feeling.  It's an even result on both rails, so it appears I was at least consistent.  [unsure]

Please don't be offended by this, because there is no easy way to say it. The first thing you have to do is admit to yourself that you overtightened the screws. If you remain in denial that you overtightened them, you're going to overtighten them again. And that is the part you want to avoid.

The first indication that you have overtightened them is the expectation that the connector will be rigid with a single screw. To overcome the natural pivots and fulcrum of a single point, takes a huge amount of compressive force. That's why there are 2 screws per side in the first place.

It should be rigid when all 4 are tightened, but it should not be rigid until all 4 are tightened.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

By the way, here is kind of a video version of the Supplemental Manual. At around the 10 minute mark, I describe connecting the rails.

 

[Darren1972]

Impact driver lol!

When I tightened one screw, I was able to wiggle the connector.  I tightend the second screw to no wiggle, then tightened the first one up to pick up slack.  The second side of the connector I had to do by feeling.  It's an even result on both rails, so it appears I was at least consistent.  [unsure]

The other possibility- now that I think about it: I had to physically pick up the connected rail piece a few times and move it & flip it over to a side station, etc.  It's quite possible that during movement the weight of the rails caused it to bend, which provided additional moment arm pressure concentrated on the exact set screw locations, exacerbated the effect on the soft metal.

When I run my finger across the spider web-looking deformations I can only feel a noticeable lift on 1 or 2 of the 8 total screw locations.  The others really are cosmetic or miniscule.  There's no way I'm taking any more chances.  There are better idiot-proof solutions possible.

its totaly festools fault that YOU over tightened the screw same happened to me when i crashed my car at 150 mph it was ferraris fault for making it go that fast

 

[Wuffles]

Impact driver lol!

When I tightened one screw, I was able to wiggle the connector.  I tightend the second screw to no wiggle, then tightened the first one up to pick up slack.  The second side of the connector I had to do by feeling.  It's an even result on both rails, so it appears I was at least consistent.  [unsure]

The other possibility- now that I think about it: I had to physically pick up the connected rail piece a few times and move it & flip it over to a side station, etc.  It's quite possible that during movement the weight of the rails caused it to bend, which provided additional moment arm pressure concentrated on the exact set screw locations, exacerbated the effect on the soft metal.

When I run my finger across the spider web-looking deformations I can only feel a noticeable lift on 1 or 2 of the 8 total screw locations.  The others really are cosmetic or miniscule.  There's no way I'm taking any more chances.  There are better idiot-proof solutions possible.

its totaly festools fault that YOU over tightened the screw same happened to me when i crashed my car at 150 mph it was ferraris fault for making it go that fast

Pizza Steve is taking your comments in a light-hearted way Darren, why not drop it eh?

 

[weekendwarrior]

I would be bat stuff crazy to deny overtightening the connector!  No one else did it!  ;D

I just question how easy it was to damage the rail.  Having read the DIY connector thread and considered the make-or-buy decision, I even knew of the potential for damage so it was in my mind as I was connecting them.

Your description of the fulcrum was spot on, [member=191]Rick Christopherson[/member] .  I see from your video, Rick, that you tightened the connector while the rails were already joined.  My first attempt approach was to attach one side to one rail, then slide the other rail on to the assembly.  With your method, you're not going to do a wiggle test because you can't even grab the connector.

This connector is being ridiculously analyzed, but it does serve a purpose to see how it's not so hard to mess up when you connect one side of a rail at a time.