What makes Systainers better than the alternatives?

[Agent 73]

After a lot of contemplating I decided to purchase Systainers to replace my Dewalt Tstaks. As I wait for my Sys cart and L box to arrive I wonder if I made the right decision.

I've always been searching for the perfect mobile tool storage system but never found anything that suits me.  I've steered clear of the Packout because I owned something similar (Rigid) and hated removing boxes to get to other boxes.

I've been aware of Systainers but the price didn't seem justified but the L series and XXL are appealing.

Today I had a chance to see the Milwaukee Packout drawers and dolly and I can't help but think that's the better way to go.  I mean what can beat I nice big set of drawers on wheels for mobile repairs? 

Thoughts?

 

[live4ever]

They are different systems with different ideal use cases.

I have A LOT of systainers and a lot of packout.  The packout are more rugged, and better suited to throwing around at rougher job sites.  They have gaskets in the lids so are decently waterproof.  They can be carried a number of different ways and can tolerate the abuse of being thrown in the pickup bed.  There is a larger variety of cases and accessories that fit the packout system such as soft bags, whereas adapting non-systainers to work securely with systainer stacks takes a bit of work.  The packout small parts organizers are decent but bin sizes/layout are not very customizable like the Festool organizers.  The new packout drawers are a huge missing piece as it's nice to have large drawers; the Festool sortainer drawers are really for small stuff.

In the shop, the systainers are great if you don't have a ton of built-in storage or are moving things around a lot.  Easy to label and color-code latches (packout aren't great at this).  Compact and clean stacks. 

Basically if you transport your tools a lot and spend a lot of time renovating or are in the plumbing or electrical trades, I think Packout is better.  If you're a shop-based woodworker or when mobile are primarily doing cabinets, trim, interiors, etc., systainers.  From an organizational standpoint both systems have their pros and cons, but to me the distinguishing characteristic is how much abuse your tools (and their cases) take.

 

[DeformedTree]

There is no perfect system.

A few things that systainers have right.

1) Euronorm form factor.  They are not the only one with this, but this is something that is a basic requirement for any such system. It sucks that in N.A. we don't have generic Euronorm containers and bins, but at least systainers are on this path.

2) Usage by multiple companies. It's not just Tanos and Festool, but even their competition uses them. Having products from many companies using them is great, it's a step in things becoming a standard.

3) Tools come in them. I know Milwaukee and dewalt have bin systems, I'm not sure they sell tools in them, which makes them fairly pointless. Those systems are hard to find much of anything about them, which says a lot considering how hard tanos makes finding good information.

4) Some compatibility with other systems. Since they use the Euronorm form factor, they start with some level of compatibility with others. Some other threads here have shown that some companies have or had compatibility with systainers, and were not models made by Tanos.

That said, with the recent systainer3 shift, Tanos looks to be trying to break a good thing. Folks have their different issues with the new units. Dumb front handle, Change in heights, Loss of Side Labels being the big hitters.

Someone will come along with "better", but at the core, having a form factor used by many companies/industry, and your tools coming in them is key.  I would love if Milwaukee would stop making blow molded cases, and canvas bags and ship in Systainers, or systainer compatible cases. Buying a tool in a case you just have to throw out, or really more annoying store so you have it if/when you sell the tool and in the mean time put it in some other container is very frustrating.

There will never be perfection, as what some folks want is in conflict with others wants. Not everyone wants an indestructible sealed container, sometimes you just want a plastic box that works with your other boxes, as an example.

 

[Agent 73]

They are different systems with different ideal use cases.

I have A LOT of systainers and a lot of packout.  The packout are more rugged, and better suited to throwing around at rougher job sites.  They have gaskets in the lids so are decently waterproof.  They can be carried a number of different ways and can tolerate the abuse of being thrown in the pickup bed.  There is a larger variety of cases and accessories that fit the packout system such as soft bags, whereas adapting non-systainers to work securely with systainer stacks takes a bit of work.  The packout small parts organizers are decent but bin sizes/layout are not very customizable like the Festool organizers.  The new packout drawers are a huge missing piece as it's nice to have large drawers; the Festool sortainer drawers are really for small stuff.

In the shop, the systainers are great if you don't have a ton of built-in storage or are moving things around a lot.  Easy to label and color-code latches (packout aren't great at this).  Compact and clean stacks. 

Basically if you transport your tools a lot and spend a lot of time renovating or are in the plumbing or electrical trades, I think Packout is better.  If you're a shop-based woodworker or when mobile are primarily doing cabinets, trim, interiors, etc., systainers.  From an organizational standpoint both systems have their pros and cons, but to me the distinguishing characteristic is how much abuse your tools (and their cases) take.

I was going to say, when it comes to organizing hand tools that's where the Packout loses my interest.  A big drawer is nice but without some type of custom tray you just have tools laying on top of each other.  I've tried the Kaizen foam but always never did really care much for it.

The majority of the time I use hand tools on small jobs.  It's only certain occasions I need power tools. 

 

[Agent 73]

There is no perfect system.

A few things that systainers have right.

1) Euronorm form factor.  They are not the only one with this, but this is something that is a basic requirement for any such system. It sucks that in N.A. we don't have generic Euronorm containers and bins, but at least systainers are on this path.

2) Usage by multiple companies. It's not just Tanos and Festool, but even their competition uses them. Having products from many companies using them is great, it's a step in things becoming a standard.

3) Tools come in them. I know Milwaukee and dewalt have bin systems, I'm not sure they sell tools in them, which makes them fairly pointless. Those systems are hard to find much of anything about them, which says a lot considering how hard tanos makes finding good information.

4) Some compatibility with other systems. Since they use the Euronorm form factor, they start with some level of compatibility with others. Some other threads here have shown that some companies have or had compatibility with systainers, and were not models made by Tanos.

That said, with the recent systainer3 shift, Tanos looks to be trying to break a good thing. Folks have their different issues with the new units. Dumb front handle, Change in heights, Loss of Side Labels being the big hitters.

Someone will come along with "better", but at the core, having a form factor used by many companies/industry, and your tools coming in them is key.  I would love if Milwaukee would stop making blow molded cases, and canvas bags and ship in Systainers, or systainer compatible cases. Buying a tool in a case you just have to throw out, or really more annoying store so you have it if/when you sell the tool and in the mean time put it in some other container is very frustrating.

There will never be perfection, as what some folks want is in conflict with others wants. Not everyone wants an indestructible sealed container, sometimes you just want a plastic box that works with your other boxes, as an example.

I guess I might be in the minority of people that are interested in Systainers but not Festool tools.  I prefer Hilti but they don't really make tool boxes just tool cases and bags included with their tools and not very good ones at that.

 

[DeformedTree]

I guess I might be in the minority of people that are interested in Systainers but not Festool tools.  I prefer Hilti but they don't really make tool boxes just tool cases and bags included with their tools and not very good ones at that.

Yeah, but that's the point I was making. You can buy the Tanos systainers for tools that didn't come in systainers. But it's really nice when tools come in systainers in the first place.  It would be great if Hilti sold their tools in systainers.

I would love to see if after any patents on the T-lock design expire, that other companies just start making them, maybe with their own changes they see fit to make, but be compatible.

 

[Agent 73]

Now I'm wondering if anyone has attempted to put the Packout cleats on a Systainer to morph the two systems together.

 

[Peter_C]

I've always been searching for the perfect mobile tool storage system but never found anything that suits me.  I've steered clear of the Packout because I owned something similar (Rigid) and hated removing boxes to get to other boxes.

I have stayed away from T-staks but have the Ridgid boxes you loath, and lots of the Packout's too, along with a decent collection of Systainer's. Systainer's could NEVER be my primary tool storage system. Even with tools piled with no foam I have too many tool boxes. To me the Systainer's hold my precious Festool's and such, and the rest are in Packout's or Ridgid boxes. Personally I prefer the Packout's.

BTW the Systainer's, Ridgid's, and Packout's function similar in that you release the lower box, and tip the upper box back with the lid to gain access to whats below. Not ideal either way. The Milwaukee 4 wheel dolly blows the Festool dolly away. I use mine for moving heavy stuff around often over rougher ground. So far I have not put a Packout on it.

Past thread with mine and others personal thoughts.https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...out-comparison/msg548446/?topicseen#msg548446

 

[DynaGlide]

I think [member=13462]live4ever[/member] basically nailed it. My woodworking shop in the basement is all systainers with some random crappy plastic bins from Walmart for the odds and ends that don't work well in a systainer. I have them all on drawer slides so I can access the specific tools and accessories without taking the systainer out, setting it down somewhere, then putting it back. It's very nice. But I got them all with tools that I would've bought anyway.

I keep all my woodworking and 'the rest' separate. That is, I try to keep all my house repair, mechanics tools, etc items in the garage separate from my woodworking items in the basement. For those, I think I'd like to invest in Packout at some point. Right now it's all in tool chests and random boxes and bins in the garage and it bothers me every time I start a project I have to go throw stuff into a bucket and hope for the best. Which means I end up going back to the garage 10x for things I didn't think of. I'm just not that smart at organizing yet and haven't taken the plunge. The Packout drawers are a big necessary item to add to their lineup.

I did buy some Tstak stuff for organizing hardware in my woodworking area. It's okay and was at the right price for me. Packout needs to come out with smaller drawers next similar to Tstak offering.

 

[squall_line]

I think [member=13462]live4ever[/member] basically nailed it. My woodworking shop in the basement is all systainers with some random crappy plastic bins from Walmart for the odds and ends that don't work well in a systainer. I have them all on drawer slides so I can access the specific tools and accessories without taking the systainer out, setting it down somewhere, then putting it back. It's very nice. But I got them all with tools that I would've bought anyway.

I keep all my woodworking and 'the rest' separate. That is, I try to keep all my house repair, mechanics tools, etc items in the garage separate from my woodworking items in the basement. For those, I think I'd like to invest in Packout at some point. Right now it's all in tool chests and random boxes and bins in the garage and it bothers me every time I start a project I have to go throw stuff into a bucket and hope for the best. Which means I end up going back to the garage 10x for things I didn't think of. I'm just not that smart at organizing yet and haven't taken the plunge. The Packout drawers are a big necessary item to add to their lineup.

Are you living in my house?  This very accurately describes a lot about where I'm headed with my own organization.

A lot of my organization needs are driven by three things at this moment:
-Desire to find tools quickly and easily when needed, saving time on projects
-Desire to find accessories, fasteners, etc quickly and easily when needed
-Desire to reduce the cluttered look that bothers me a little bit but bothers my wife significantly more

I pulled a Nanuk 920 case out of my car this morning for work that was sitting next to a Sys-I.  I started to wonder about the possibility of moving some of my Nanuk storage needs to Systainers, but for electronics, the Nanuks are waterproof and much more sturdy.

 

[WillAdams]

I tried cheaping out on a Husky Rolling Connect system w/ Harbor Freight organizers as drawers:
https://imgur.com/a/BLS5QJM

It sort of works, but lacks the synergy of Systainers, so I'm going to be relegating that to sharpening tools and tool overflow, and start over with a:

- Festool MW 1000
- Mafell P1CC
- Mafell Jigsaw
- Bridge City Tool Works DJ-3 drilling jig (once it becomes available)
- a Systainer w/ drawers for hand tools
- whatever else fits in the stack

One thing I'm trying to work out is whether to get a nicer track saw --- ideally something small, light, maneuverable and with rails in both a manageable length, and long enough to break sheet goods down (those would be stored separately along the roof of the laundry room, or maybe behind the living room sofa).

 

[Agent 73]

I've always been searching for the perfect mobile tool storage system but never found anything that suits me.  I've steered clear of the Packout because I owned something similar (Rigid) and hated removing boxes to get to other boxes.

I have stayed away from T-staks but have the Ridgid boxes you loath, and lots of the Packout's too, along with a decent collection of Systainer's. Systainer's could NEVER be my primary tool storage system. Even with tools piled with no foam I have too many tool boxes. To me the Systainer's hold my precious Festool's and such, and the rest are in Packout's or Ridgid boxes. Personally I prefer the Packout's.

BTW the Systainer's, Ridgid's, and Packout's function similar in that you release the lower box, and tip the upper box back with the lid to gain access to whats below. Not ideal either way. The Milwaukee 4 wheel dolly blows the Festool dolly away. I use mine for moving heavy stuff around often over rougher ground. So far I have not put a Packout on it.

Past thread with mine and others personal thoughts.https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...out-comparison/msg548446/?topicseen#msg548446

You're right about the tilt function of the lids on Rigid boxes except for the bottom box with wheels, to get to that box all the ones on top need to come off.

I really curious about the comparison of the dollies, are you comparing the Packout dolly to the newer Sys dolly or the older model?

 

[Imemiter]

For me the two stand out niceties are integration with the vacuum and the internal organization. Festool runs away from any other brand I know of. Does anyone else even try to make a sander kit that'll hold everything needed for a full day of sanding? Or a saw box that'll hold batteries, blades, rip guite, rail square and a dust bag? Even Makita (who I adore,) take their plate joiner box, it has a place for biscuits but only just barely. I'd run out by lunchtime. By contrast I could work out of a Domino box for a month. Just add glue. 

 

[Peter_C]

You're right about the tilt function of the lids on Rigid boxes except for the bottom box with wheels, to get to that box all the ones on top need to come off.

With a stack of Systainer's on a SYS-Roll there are many height points where you can not tip the lids open with another Systainer on top, as they run into the handle or into the strap brackets. Often I am tossing Systainer's aside to access what I need in the lower part of the stack. With the Packout system access to the bottom box is no better as the handle doesn't allow boxes on top to tip. Since the Packout large boxes are bigger it often means they are heavier too. Milwaukee does offer their upright dolly with the ability to put a crate on top, hanging from the dolly.

I really curious about the comparison of the dollies, are you comparing the Packout dolly to the newer Sys dolly or the older model?

Didn't realize they came out with a new dolly that is flat and has better wheels. Might have been the Tanos version I tried once before and the wheels were too small. I have a couple of the SYS-Rolls and they do work nicely for moving Systainer's around, as they tip onto two wheels. I bought the Milwaukee dolly for a great price to move some heavy items during a move and now it lives in my garage currently with my bin of tree climbing gear on it. Just looked up the specs and the Milwaukee dolly is substantially larger, which is better for how I use it. The new Festool dolly does look like an improvement though sporting a T-Loc. The T-Loc upgrade for the dust collectors is nice as I have it on one of my CT36's, but not the other.

Edit: Spencer's video on the pain of tool access in big boxes.

 

[Coen]

There are many different systems. All have their drawbacks and you cannot get "everything" straight in the right box anyway...

And then when you get everything in one system... the manufacturer might just decide to screw things up.... like with the Systainer3 and their shitty heights.

 

[Rumblefish]

From what I have seen (quite limited here overseas ... Dewalt is a Bit präsent, Milwaukee is coming up more) Festool is the Most versatile System at the Moment. More Fine Details than Touch stuff. The Thinge that Made systainers work for me are the Sys Sort Drawers and the Toolboxes. Bit ist is pricy.

Over here Auer Packaging is coming up with an aproach. Interresting Price Point Bit still in its beginnings.

Lboxxes don‘t do ist for me though they have extra capacity. Click System crappy, the drawer Solution flimsy ... Not Wirkung for me.

In my opinion you have to access every Tool directly without unmounting the complete stack. A Good drawer Solution is essential to me for a Good system. That‘s WhatsApp I Stick with systainers for now. They work for me. But in Hard use szenario I‘d pick More riggid stuff.

 

[woodferret]

I still have my TSTAKs.  I find them to be more suited for yard work.  I can drop them on hilly terrain without worrying about stupid hinges.  I keep my systainers indoors or they get pampered with a worktable when outside.

 

[mac sparrow]

I suppose the number of manufacturers who have adopted the systainers or have retained compatibility with the systainer range, or close compatibility is the biggest draw.

 

[huntdupl]

I didn't read all the comments...IMO it comes down to how you work. If you're a shop hobbyist, Dewalt TStak are great. If you work in the field, work outside, or transport alot to and from, Milwaukee Packout looks pretty rugged and believe water resistant (I have no experience with Packout).

I have an assortment of TStak, Bosch LBOXX, and Systainers. Also a Rigid 3pcs kit for auto detailing.

I've scored lots of Bosch cases off Craigslist - university lab shutting down and got tons of fastener storage. I purchased larger LBOXXs and some with drawers. I've recently made several large purchases of Combi/TB Systainers and moving towards better multi-tool systainer organization.

My 2 cents:
>If Packout was around years ago, that would be my go to. I'm a hobbyist and also a clutz - often leave things outside and always tripping/dropping over things (they look durable).

>Will never buy Bosch again - the form factor is off. I thought larger cases would be better, but they're just clunky and the locking mechanism is finicky. The hard ABS plastic (or whatever) similar to Systainers - I'm always timid to just drop the case on the ground or slide it..

>TStaks are great - sized similar to Systainers, affordable, and I have no problem tossing those around. The ball bearing drawer slides are a great departure from the all plastic Festool drawers

>Systainers - well, already had an inventory from purchasing tools. Now just consolidating into larger (insanely expensive) cases. Festool really got everything right (not pertaining to the SYS3). I find the ratio of size case and weighted tools to be spot on if that makes sense - easy to carry. I just wish I was so nervous when handling a 'tool case'

>Wouldn't buy Rigid again unless I was a plumber

 

[notenoughcash]

i find i can jam more in a systainer than a tstack

imo there is 2 types of packing system 'big' and 'small'

small = lboxx, systainer/mackpack, and tstack

big is the likes of packout, the sysm and upwards, and toughsystem.

i use systainers mainly, and have used them as steps before.  am thinking about putting my screw collection in packout.