What size would be your most 'useful' or 'ideal' stationary MFT

[wow]

I know the MFT was designed to be easy to set-up and transport, but I don't need that capability. At least I don't think I do  [unsure]

So my question becomes - "In a shop where you have enough room, what would you consider to be the 'ideal' size for an MFT?" Also - if you were considering the 'ideal' MFT with no size restrictions, what height would you make it?

I believe I've read every post on here about custom MFT's ( and re-read many of them). It seems most folks want a table that's larger than JUST the MFT/x, and use it as a multi-purpose bench - not just a cutting/routing table. I have found pictures and plans for everything from slightly oversize MFTC's (with extensions/outfeed/whatever) to 4'x8' tables. I could make space for any of the above, but am asking what YOU would pick if you had the option to have whichever size and height you wanted.

And just to be clear, this is NOT a poll for a potential product like my oversize layout square. As a newbie to the green addiction (but not to woodworking) I'd just like to get feedback from the experienced serious users and really smart people who populate this board. I need to build something for my shop and would like to 'get it right' on the first try, if possible. Or at least 'righter' than I'd do without your guidance.

And one follow-on question. I have a traditional European woodworkers bench made by ULMIA. Should I keep that, or will I find it collecting dust once I build my MFT?

NOTE: if you post a response you automatically become a serious user and really smart person...at least to me!



Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

 

[jonny round boy]

So my question becomes - "In a shop where you have enough room, what would you consider to be the 'ideal' size for an MFT?"

The 'ideal' size for an MFT would surely depend on a) the size of the shop; and b) what you're going to be using the MFT for. Therefore, there is no definitive answer.

I'd say that the maximum width should be no more than around 1500mm (so you can reach to the centre from either side) but lengthwise there's no limit other than the space available.

Also, it doesn't matter how big you make it, you'll fill it up fairly quickly & it'll never be 'big enough'. [tongue]

 

[packratpop]

Sometimes less is more! Think flexibility!! I went through the same search a few years ago and like most guys I thought bigger must surely be better. I dont remember who it was here that built the first mega mft but I read that after living with it for a few years he changed his mind and optedfor multiple mft's that he could move as the job required. I like the concept of thinking modular.
Remember if you build a monster you will have to walk around it constantly. Think workflow. What is the thing you foresee doing the most? Assembly tables are usually lower. Breakdown tables are usually a bit higher. Routing may be more comfortable at a higher table. My realization was that a one size fits all strategy wiuld not work for me as I am in a garage with limited space. I have the mft and kapex with UG stand set up in line. At that work station I can do nost cutting, sanding, routing, domino work and some clamping. For sheet goods I use a temporary setup of sawhorses. This space is also used for large assembly and it is where I roll my bandsaw or jointer or planer. They are serviced by the big dust collector. The kapex/ mft line is serviced by a ct22.
Problem is only you know what you are going to build! I try to think about workflow and minimizizing excess movement.
Hope that helps.
Oh yeah.....my rule of thumb is not to remove a tool until it proves itself useless to me. I would think long and hard before getting rid of that bench. Let it sit and collect dust for a bit until it gets in the way then make your decision. Tgese things onky tend to get more expensive. Hate to see you yearn to replace it in a year or so.
best of luck!

 

[Kev]

I've pondered this often. I actually think the answer is a configuration of multiple common sized units of modest size (ideally close to the MFT/3). There's a lot of potentially dead space under say an 8'x4' or larger worktop.

 

[Timtool]

I personally am not in favor of combining too many features into the same design. It gets tiring really quick having to clean off your bench because you want to use the built in router table etc... So if you have the room you must keep things separate.

My stationary sysport workbench sits against the wall and is about 1,8m long and 60cm deep. I wouldn't go much deeper with a bench that is against a wall, it is back breaking to work on a deep surface. I also find the width satisfying for my use, sometimes i could used a wider surface but the tables next to it allow me to let the workpiece stick out.

If it was not against a wall i would make it 80cm deep, that way it can easily support cabinets or table tops. if it was to be used for cutting down sheet goods then i would make it slightly smaller than 1 sheet so you can clamp rails on the sheet, about 100x2000cm.

Where my sysport workbench sits now there used to be a classical type of ancient european bench like the Ulmia, lets just say it was the dark corner of my workshop usually covered in dust and scraps. now with the sysport, this side of the workshop is now the center of my activity and it's the opposite side now that gets covered with junk!

 

[sancho57]

MFTs are the right size IMO.

I have 2 of them.

I think 3 is the right amount and you can swap configs fairly easy to do what ever you want and when not needed ,fold up ad against the wall.

I have one I use for cutting into and another I use for out feed, assy ect.

It works great for me.

I also would like to get a 2nd Kapex MFT for putting my bench jointer on etc.

 

[jonny round boy]

I should have added to my first post - I agree that many smaller tables would be preferable to one massive one...

 

[BMH]

One important consideration is to try to keep the work surfaces, if possible, at the same height if you are in a smaller shop, or if you are in a larger one keep each section at the same height. It just makes maneuvering large pieces easier. I am using festool 90 cm as my gold standard and have to redo some of base cabinet bases to lower them.

I agree with Timtool on table size depending if against the wall or not. Walking around a large table gets old and keeps you from accessing your different tool easily.

I have now set up a couple of sections for different type or work, Kapex, CMS, MFT3, workbench and drill press. It has increase my efficiency big time where before all of this was done in the same place. Configuring your drawers and storage system to support these workstations is also important.

I do like my MFT3 table and wish that Festool made a 60cm wide version of it and same length. Then develop a connection system so you can attach them in parallel or in series. I would like that the connectors permit us to attach them far enough apart to support a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Sacrificial top on the connectors.  This would make transporting much easier especially when going through narrow stairways of doors. It would also be a great addition to the MFT3 table as I don't have the place to add another one full time in the shop.

 

[Sparktrician]

If I had the space, I'd have five MFTs, somewhat in an arrangement like Jerry Work has, with plenty of flexibility to make rearrangements as needed to suit the project.  The current size seems to fit most of my needs quite well.  With current space restrictions, two is about all I can reasonably fit into my shop with adequate working room.  I can't see myself having them in a forever fixed arrangement with no flexibility to respond to project needs.  

 

[erock]

After helping my brother-in-law with making a MFT top for him I quickly realized that I didn't want anything that big for my shop.   The top we made for him is around 3 feet wide by 7 feet long.  

By having his top sitting in my shop I could see how big it really was.  And I'm glad that I haven't made one yet.   I have 3 different MFT tables.  MFT/3,  MFT/1080 and a MFT/800

I love having the different sizes.  I plan on adding one more MFT/3 basic to connect to my MFT/3.

I agree 100% with Jonny round boy's first post.    What's going to work for my brother-in-laws shop wouldn't work for me.  He has his needs as I have mine.

Eric

 

[Oldwood]

The ideal is dependent on the tasks you take on & also the size of the shop. We have 2 tables with 3' X4' tops that are on casters that lock securely so they can be moved around the shop & then locked down when using. They are both 32" high which allows most machine tools to feed over the top & is good height for assembly. They can be butted up to give a larger work surface if needed. Our shop is large enough so having these work tables in the shop is not a problem but if your shop is smaller you may need the ability to break down your tables. Having the tables on casters makes the useful for transporting parts between work stations. They are drilled with 20mm holes on the 96mm grid like the MFT.

HTH
Gerry

 

[jonny round boy]

One important consideration is to try to keep the work surfaces, if possible, at the same height if you are in a smaller shop, or if you are in a larger one keep each section at the same height. It just makes maneuvering large pieces easier. I am using festool 90 cm as my gold standard and have to redo some of base cabinet bases to lower them.

That's a good point, although in my case 900mm is too high. The base for my Kapex is the same height as the MFT Kapex, so the bed is at 900. This allows me to use the extensions without modifying them.

I have 3 old benches that are 900mm high; 2 I no longer use & are dismantled, and 1 is just used to pile crap on! That will be going soon, too. Reason being - I'm quite short, and at 900mm stuff is just too high for me to comfortably work. There's no way I could reach to cut up an 8'x4' sheet down the middle when it's 900 off the floor.

My current benches are very, very low - around 600mm high. At that height, I can easily lean over a full sheet & reach to cut it up. Basically I work over it, not next to it. Also, that height works for me as an assembly bench for large cabinets. If I'm doing small, fiddly stuff I generally sit up to the bench on a small stool.

 

[leer]

Reading the title of this thread, I knew there would be lots of opinions, and there are, and all of them are right!   One size fits all certainly does not fit when it comes to workbenches.  I'll bet I have 20+ years of woodworking magazines, and I could not count the number of "Ultimate Workbench!" articles there are in those boxes of magazines.

I built my own MFT-style workbench since I am a hobby woodworker.  I have a basement shop, and rarely does a tool leave the house. I thought the MFT/3 was just a little too small for me, and portability was not a requirement.  I became a Festool addict recently.  My reason for buying a track saw in November had one major purpose -- to break down sheet goods that were nearly impossible for me to do with my table saw.

My first thought was to just use a full sheet of MDF, and have a typical 4X8 workbench.  But my shop would be a little cramped with a workbench this size.  I decided to take a foot off the length and width, and the final size is 3'x7' (36"x84").  This still supports the breakdown of a full sheet of plywood, but gives me more room to maneuver around the workbench.

An equally important requirement for my workbench was to have it serve as the outfeed table for my table saw.  I was tired of using roller stands, and they are really only useful for supporting boards during ripping, not plywood.  The need to be at table saw height did dictate that the workbench is a bit taller than I would have normally built, but the narrower width has made it work well for me so far.  It is about 38" tall ( 950mm). I built the frame out of 2x4 and 4x4 lumber, since the bench is an experiment for now, and could be modified or replaced without a concern for a huge investment to date. I CNC-machined the MDF top with 20mm holes on 4" centers (fits well with the top dimensions, and close to the 96mm spacing on the Festool MFT). I've posted about the workbench here, if anyone is interested:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/home-built-%27mft-xl%27-workbench/

Since I do not have a need to always be breaking down plywood or MDF, the workbench's other use is a big assembly table.  I bought the Qwas rail and bench dogs for use during sawing operations, and I bought quite a few Parf Dogs recently for use with jigs. My first jigs will be a pair of clamp supports to hold various styles and sizes of clamps in position when making laminated/segmented cutting boards, and blanks for turning on the lathe.

Future plans are to build a rolling cart for my planer, and use the workbench as an outfeed table for the planer.  And I also want to add a shelf under the top (similar to the Paulk Workbench), for temporary tool storage.  Some cabinets or drawers might be added, and I have a vise ready to add to the end of the bench.

 

[Corwin]

I suggest making your stationary table something mid-sized -- say, as wide as you like and around 65" deep such that you can use a FS1900/2 guiderail.  That way you can use a MFT/3 to handle the smaller work, a cutting table for 4'x8' sheet goods, and this mid-sized table for everything in between. 

I suggest this size table because the setup I found useful most often was having two MFT1080s joined along their long sides to make an overall work surface of about 45" wide by 62" deep.  I liked having a table that could handle the FS1900/2 rail -- with a substantial fence along the back it worked well for even large crosscuts, and with a sled it handled rip cuts easily.

 

[JPF Woodworking]

I have been considering the move from a very "traditional" bench to a more shop based MFT so this discussion is very timely and I really appreciate all of the different opinions, which is characteristic of this forum. I don't have anything to add to sizing the ultimate MFT but I would strongly suggest that you take a look a Ron Paulk' s design and consider the storage area just below the MFT surface. For sure, I will be including this in my design. Not only does the framework keep the top perfectly flat the added storage really helps with work flow and efficiency.

 

[madmaguire]

Size really isn't  a problem at my shop (30' x 50')  I fabricated a 4' x 8' assembly table out of 3/4" mdf with the 20 mm hole pattern that also works as an out feed for my cabinet saw and use it all the time for alot of different projects.  I also have 3
MFT 's that come into play quite a bit as well. I am content with this layout and think for my workflow the combination works well.  Good luck in your decision making!
Cheers
John

 

[semenza]

Lots of possibilities. What works for you may  not work at all for someone else.

Being able to reconfigure  smaller tables into  different shapes and sizes is nice, but unless they all have built in storage and are on wheels then the space underneath is truly dead.  Mine is dedicated  for cutting and is only secondary  in the work bench mode. As such it does not have holes but that doesn't mean one the same size couldn't have holes.

3' x 10' with a portion that has a fold up wing to extend the width  to 5' feet.  I like having the rail ends supported for the run in/out  space. It doesn't ever get taken down or moved. So the space below is storage space including built in storage for the 10' rail. I find it pretty much perfect in size for a cutting table. And it would be a fine size for a general purpose work bench too.

Seth

 

[Colonel Panic]

I built two 2' X 8' tables using Ron Paulk's torsion box design except they have 4X4 legs and a bottom shelf. One is stationary and  the other has locking wheels. This allows me to clamp them together for large assembly or just bring them close for ripping sheet goods without tearing up the MDF tops. If I do it again I'll make the stationary one 3' X 8'. They are standard cabinet height but I think I will build a lower dedicated ripping grid for sheet goods. I'm getting too old and lazy to heft 3/4" ply up that high.  [sad]

 

[leer]

Colonel Panic,

I like your idea of building two workbenches. Due to space constraints I built mine 3' X 7'. I was concerned about the narrower width but found it to be a nice size. My bench is a little taller than an MFT/3 so it could serve as an outfield table for my table saw as well. If I had a larger shop I think I'd do two as you did but consider your change and make one 3' and the other 2' wide. I am currently using sacrificial strips to keep the top cut-free, as Ron Paulk does.

 

[sancho57]

One important consideration is to try to keep the work surfaces, if possible, at the same height if you are in a smaller shop, or if you are in a larger one keep each section at the same height. It just makes maneuvering large pieces easier. I am using festool 90 cm as my gold standard and have to redo some of base cabinet bases to lower them.

That's a good point, although in my case 900mm is too high. The base for my Kapex is the same height as the MFT Kapex, so the bed is at 900. This allows me to use the extensions without modifying them.

I have 3 old benches that are 900mm high; 2 I no longer use & are dismantled, and 1 is just used to pile crap on! That will be going soon, too. Reason being - I'm quite short, and at 900mm stuff is just too high for me to comfortably work. There's no way I could reach to cut up an 8'x4' sheet down the middle when it's 900 off the floor.

My current benches are very, very low - around 600mm high. At that height, I can easily lean over a full sheet & reach to cut it up. Basically I work over it, not next to it. Also, that height works for me as an assembly bench for large cabinets. If I'm doing small, fiddly stuff I generally sit up to the bench on a small stool.

I too am a tad vertically challenged  [big grin].

i would prefer a MFT that was about 600mm high. Id like the MFTs to be fitted with adj legs to adj the height of them.