What Table saw blade do you use for plywood?

[tbellemare]

Thanks again, Jack!

I'm hesitant to believe reviews that could have a profit motive but I'll definitely take a look. I could be wrong but it seems that I get the most reliable feedback from people that make a living with their tools or at least use them all the time as if they were, like a dedicated hobbyist.

Tom

 

[mastercabman]

Can you tell me why, please?

I am sincerely trying to understand why nobody seems to be using them.

Thanks,

Tom

Here is my experience and what i found out.
Lowes used to carry CMT blades but if you go to any Lowes you will notice that CMT blades are on close out.They are discontinued.
I bought one about 6 months ago and put it in my table saw.After using it for about 4 months(light to medium use)I noticed that some of the teeth was chipped and i mean big chunk.I do not recall running into any metal,nails etc...
I talked with some other woodworker friends and most of them who had used CMT were not too "shabby"about it.
Then i met a sale rep from FREUD.  OK i know he is going to tell me that CMT is bad and Freud is good.But i had to hear what he had to say.
CMT does not make their carbide.The use recycle hard carbide.I have also heard that from someone else before.
Also,their so called "orange coating" is nothing more than paint.Freud uses some kind of Teflon coating.
I can't recall what he told me about the way the blade is made but it is not like most top blade manufacturer does.Making it not so flat?
Since i had good result with my Freud blades and bad experience with CMT,I can only conclude that i will never buy CMT again.

 

[Peter James]

Thanks again, Jack!

I'm hesitant to believe reviews that could have a profit motive but I'll definitely take a look. I could be wrong but it seems that I get the most reliable feedback from people that make a living with their tools or at least use them all the time as if they were, like a dedicated hobbyist.

Tom

Disclaimer - We sell both Freud AND CMT....

Here is my $.02 on this topic, and I am by no means an expert.

- Kerf: CMT offers industrial full kerf (all orange) blades, and ITK (silver and orange) blades. ITK stands for industrial thin kerf - thicker than a Diablo, but still not a full kerf blade. Freud also offers full kerf (LU & LM series) and thin kerf blades (Diablo series). Both the Diablo line from Freud and the ITK from CMT are more aimed at contractors out in the field. Typically running portable table saws and miter saws. Both of their industrial lineups are geared at wood shops. I would imagine, but don't want to speculate that big boxes are going to sell the thin kerf lines from both vendors as they offer a lower price point and the average consumer shops based upon cost. CMT also offers non coated industrial blades (Industrial XTreme) more marketed at larger production shops with panel saws, etc as well as a ITK Contractor line which are purely price driven, disposable blades.

- Coatings: CMT industrial (all orange) blades have a PTFE (teflon made by Dupont) coating on them. CMT ITK blades do not. Freud Diablo and the some industrial (LU and LM - varies by blade I believe) have a Perma-Shield (teflon, but not by Dupont) coating on them. Dupont used to make a teflon coating for Freud, but I believe the two companies no loner have a relationship.

- Bodies: Both companies laser cut their plates.

- Carbide: I do not know much about the specifics about the carbide these companies use, other than they use C4 carbide. The higher the "C" rating, the harder the carbide. Unfortunately, harder carbide typically means more brittle and resistant to chipping. The softer the carbide, the quicker it is to dull, so again, it is about finding a balance. And remember - the number one enemy of carbide (other than a nail) is HEAT!

Bottom line, both are good brands as long as you know what you're buying. We love both brands here, and the fact that these two companies compete so closely only means the consumer wins in the long run. I am not in a position to say one is better than another as long as the customer knows what they are looking for and expecting. There are plenty of other lines out there that sell great blades - Amana, Tenryu, Skarpaz, Forrest, etc. but I'm focusing on the two primarily mentioned in this thread. Everything I said in this thread is talk and info - what matters most is when you put the teeth to the wood and see what happens though! I hope this is at least a little bit helpful to all.

 

[jacko9]

Thanks again, Jack!

I'm hesitant to believe reviews that could have a profit motive but I'll definitely take a look. I could be wrong but it seems that I get the most reliable feedback from people that make a living with their tools or at least use them all the time as if they were, like a dedicated hobbyist.

Tom

Disclaimer - We sell both Freud AND CMT....

Here is my $.02 on this topic, and I am by no means an expert.

- Kerf: CMT offers industrial full kerf (all orange) blades, and ITK (silver and orange) blades. ITK stands for industrial thin kerf - thicker than a Diablo, but still not a full kerf blade. Freud also offers full kerf (LU & LM series) and thin kerf blades (Diablo series). Both the Diablo line from Freud and the ITK from CMT are more aimed at contractors out in the field. Typically running portable table saws and miter saws. Both of their industrial lineups are geared at wood shops. I would imagine, but don't want to speculate that big boxes are going to sell the thin kerf lines from both vendors as they offer a lower price point and the average consumer shops based upon cost. CMT also offers non coated industrial blades (Industrial XTreme) more marketed at larger production shops with panel saws, etc as well as a ITK Contractor line which are purely price driven, disposable blades.

- Coatings: CMT industrial (all orange) blades have a PTFE (teflon made by Dupont) coating on them. CMT ITK blades do not. Freud Diablo and the some industrial (LU and LM - varies by blade I believe) have a Perma-Shield (teflon, but not by Dupont) coating on them. Dupont used to make a teflon coating for Freud, but I believe the two companies no loner have a relationship.

- Bodies: Both companies laser cut their plates.

- Carbide: I do not know much about the specifics about the carbide these companies use, other than they use C4 carbide. The higher the "C" rating, the harder the carbide. Unfortunately, harder carbide typically means more brittle and resistant to chipping. The softer the carbide, the quicker it is to dull, so again, it is about finding a balance. And remember - the number one enemy of carbide (other than a nail) is HEAT!

Bottom line, both are good brands as long as you know what you're buying. We love both brands here, and the fact that these two companies compete so closely only means the consumer wins in the long run. I am not in a position to say one is better than another as long as the customer knows what they are looking for and expecting. There are plenty of other lines out there that sell great blades - Amana, Tenryu, Skarpaz, Forrest, etc. but I'm focusing on the two primarily mentioned in this thread. Everything I said in this thread is talk and info - what matters most is when you put the teeth to the wood and see what happens though! I hope this is at least a little bit helpful to all.

Thanks Peter, I do value a suppliers knowledge and that's why I posted this question on here and I'll keep this in mind for future purchases. 

Jack

 

[GaryLaroff]

I had been using the Forrest Woodworker II for many years and therefore got the 12-inch Woodworker II on my Inca 2200 cabinet saw when I purchased it around ten years ago.  I've been sold on Forrest blades for 20 years.  Last year I sent the Forrest WW-II back for sharpening and needed a spare blade for mahogany and hardwood veneer plywood while I waited for the Forrest blade to come back.  I bought the high-end 12-inch Freud blade which was certainly quieter than the Forrest and used it on the saw for some months, choosing to keep the Forrest in reserve freshly sharpened.  My impression was that it was not as good as the Forrest and was making a mess of the plywood.  When I recently replaced the Freud with the Forrest Woodworker-II the superiority of the Forrest blade was obvious to me.  This was most obvious on the quality of the cut on the plywood and the ease of cutting 8/4 and thicker mahogany.

Gary

 

[Peter James]

Thanks again, Jack!

I'm hesitant to believe reviews that could have a profit motive but I'll definitely take a look. I could be wrong but it seems that I get the most reliable feedback from people that make a living with their tools or at least use them all the time as if they were, like a dedicated hobbyist.

Tom

Disclaimer - We sell both Freud AND CMT....

Here is my $.02 on this topic, and I am by no means an expert.

- Kerf: CMT offers industrial full kerf (all orange) blades, and ITK (silver and orange) blades. ITK stands for industrial thin kerf - thicker than a Diablo, but still not a full kerf blade. Freud also offers full kerf (LU & LM series) and thin kerf blades (Diablo series). Both the Diablo line from Freud and the ITK from CMT are more aimed at contractors out in the field. Typically running portable table saws and miter saws. Both of their industrial lineups are geared at wood shops. I would imagine, but don't want to speculate that big boxes are going to sell the thin kerf lines from both vendors as they offer a lower price point and the average consumer shops based upon cost. CMT also offers non coated industrial blades (Industrial XTreme) more marketed at larger production shops with panel saws, etc as well as a ITK Contractor line which are purely price driven, disposable blades.

- Coatings: CMT industrial (all orange) blades have a PTFE (teflon made by Dupont) coating on them. CMT ITK blades do not. Freud Diablo and the some industrial (LU and LM - varies by blade I believe) have a Perma-Shield (teflon, but not by Dupont) coating on them. Dupont used to make a teflon coating for Freud, but I believe the two companies no loner have a relationship.

- Bodies: Both companies laser cut their plates.

- Carbide: I do not know much about the specifics about the carbide these companies use, other than they use C4 carbide. The higher the "C" rating, the harder the carbide. Unfortunately, harder carbide typically means more brittle and resistant to chipping. The softer the carbide, the quicker it is to dull, so again, it is about finding a balance. And remember - the number one enemy of carbide (other than a nail) is HEAT!

Bottom line, both are good brands as long as you know what you're buying. We love both brands here, and the fact that these two companies compete so closely only means the consumer wins in the long run. I am not in a position to say one is better than another as long as the customer knows what they are looking for and expecting. There are plenty of other lines out there that sell great blades - Amana, Tenryu, Skarpaz, Forrest, etc. but I'm focusing on the two primarily mentioned in this thread. Everything I said in this thread is talk and info - what matters most is when you put the teeth to the wood and see what happens though! I hope this is at least a little bit helpful to all.

Thanks Peter, I do value a suppliers knowledge and that's why I posted this question on here and I'll keep this in mind for future purchases. 

Jack

Happy to help. Like I said both companies make great blades and price point blades. Sometimes it's frustrating when a big box makes the decision on what to offer the customer based upon price alone. It's almost misrepresenting the line to do that. Again there are so many great companies doing great things nowadays. Look how far we've come with carbide vs steel cutters in the past 20 years alone.

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[Peter James]

I had been using the Forrest Woodworker II for many years and therefore got the 12-inch Woodworker II on my Inca 2200 cabinet saw when I purchased it around ten years ago.  I've been sold on Forrest blades for 20 years.  Last year I sent the Forrest WW-II back for sharpening and needed a spare blade for mahogany and hardwood veneer plywood while I waited for the Forrest blade to come back.  I bought the high-end 12-inch Freud blade which was certainly quieter than the Forrest and used it on the saw for some months, choosing to keep the Forrest in reserve freshly sharpened.  My impression was that it was not as good as the Forrest and was making a mess of the plywood.  When I recently replaced the Freud with the Forrest Woodworker-II the superiority of the Forrest blade was obvious to me.  This was most obvious on the quality of the cut on the plywood and the ease of cutting 8/4 and thicker mahogany.

Gary

I haven't heard too many people say a bad thing about them - says a lot about the company and the product. Also, I've heard their sharpening rates are fair. Is it true that they use a proprietary grind though and it's best to send blades for sharpening direct back to the manufacturer? If so, are they still including a coupon for a free sharpening with their blades, or was that a long time ago?

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I am here:http://tapatalk.com/map.php?b3rfth

 

[lambeater]

I use both Freud and CMT blades on my table saw, all industrial.

Freud glue line rip for any ripping, CMT 210.80.10 Laminate blade for melamine and ply. Also use my Freud LU80RO10 ultimate plywood melamine blade for plywood and melamine, they all work great.

thx
Lambeater

 

[Peter James]

Great info Lambeater. I think the end result is both CMT and Freud make high quality blades and some price point blades. What makes FOG so special is we all can ask each other and get some great insight and opinions.

 

[KorDes]

Just curious if anyone on here has heard of Leuco tools. They are a huge German tooling manufacturer and make some of the best blades in the market.

They have a blade called the G5 blade. A 300mm blade has 100 teeth and the teeth geometry consists of 5 different angles, hence the 5 after the G. It has a series of a flat tooth, then 2 pairs of alternating compound bevels. The grade of the tungsten carbide is harder than the usual grades as well as the body of the blade is cut from the center of the steel sheet leading to a flatter more stable body.

http://www.leuco.com/Dateien/G5_E.pdf

 

[Peter James]

Looks nice, but I don't have any personal experience from it. Sounds interesting though.....