Where Do Returned Festools Go?

[peter halle]

Ken & Chris,

Thank you for some reality.  I hope that get the time and opportunity to use and enjoy your tools and thus reduce rheir value.

Peter

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Am I missing something?  Call me silly but I generally consider the value of tool at the time I need it, not when I want to resale it. 

Do you apply the same principle to the vehicles you buy?

I would think that most sensible people would consider how much their new vehicle would depreciate over time. I admit that it may not be a significant factor for those who intend keeping the vehicle it for its complete lifetime (and intend running it into the ground), or for those who are lucky enough to have a lot of money. However for those who like to upgrade their vehicles after a few years, or who realise that they might later be forced to sell due to a shortage of money, the re-sale value becomes more important.

I would suggest that the same consideration for depreciation should apply to any major purchase, whether it be a vehicle, expensive camera lens, or woodworking equipment. You may not give the matter of depreciation much thought, but you shouldn't knock those who do, especially in the current financial climate.

Forrest

 

[Steve Jones]

Thanks for adding the voice of reason Forrest.

The true cost of any investment (tool or vehicle) is the initial investment, plus any consumables and repairs, minus the residual value, over the life of the item.

In the case of Festools, I also make an allowance for the increased productivity (Mostly the time saved cleaning up after any task).

 

[rwdawson]

I see two terms being tossed about almost interchangeably: cost and value.  From my point of view they are quite different.

As Steve rightly pointed out, cost is how much you spend minus how much you get back when you dispose of the tool, car, lens, etc.  Value is what you gain from the service that item provides over its life.  This can be earnings, the satisfaction of ownership, the pleasure you derive from what you do with that item, or prestige.

If the value of an item is greater than its cost, you owe no one an explanation.  If the cost is less than the value, you generally feel good about your purchase.  If the cost exceeds the value, you feel not so good.  It's not simply a matter of money.

Richard

 

[Chris Hughes]

Wow, I've been struggling to wrap my mind around the thought of buying a tool that I need, using the tool, and then at some later date selling said tool, and determining a depreciated price.  Let's use a domino for example.  True I have a plate joiner and a kreg jig, they were great tools at the time, and I sometimes use them still.  What is a fair asking price for a PC plate joiner?  What price should I expect for my domino in 15 years?  I try to design and build things that will last 100 years before an overhaul, so I hate planned obsolescence.  If a router still turns a cutter then keep it.  C Hughes

 

[Steve Jones]

Chris,

You really can't imagine that in in 15 years there will be a better router?

Your expectations from Festool is that they'll still be churning out OF1400s?

How's your '93 vehicle doing? since you certainly must still own it. Sorry, i'm not picking on you, I'm trying to make a point (actually my own '74 is doing fine, but it's hardly a practical work vehicle)

I just sold my old model Kreg pocket hole jig and brought the new one.  the old one cost me about $30 (that's not what I PAID for it, it's what it cost me) the new one I have no idea yet of it's cost, my investment has been $140.

Did the old one still work fine? sure, did a great job,

Is the new one better, yes, I love the front clamp and the dust control is well worth the price alone. But the real test of the tool is whether it's a sound investment. In the case of the Kreg (I'm using this example since you mentioned you own one) The front clamp is just convenient (that's for my personal comfort, not a hard business decision), but the dust control means I can make pocket holes inside a customers home, now that trim piece can be cut and fitted quickly on site, Now tidy toe-kicks can be cut to fit someone's sloping floor and pocket holed on site, that will only maybe save me an hour every two weeks - now never mind the business cost of that hour or my hourly rate, the point is also that I only have so many hours in a week (and at my age, I only have so many hours left total - but thankfully we don't haver that information at our fingertips)

So the replacement is a given, the investment is a sound one, and at some point that new one will be re-sold to someone at a discounted price and reveal the true cost of this tool.

A tool is not an heirloom, it's not something you buy to pass on to your grandchildren - even if it's a fine Lie-Nielsen plane don't buy it for your grandchildren, first and foremost buy it because it's a great tool and worth the investment, if you still own it when the inheritance is worked out and the grandkids want it - you've either been a great grandfather or they're planning on selling it (in which case in my humble opinion you've failed as a grandparent).

 

[Steve Jones]

Additional thought I forgot to mention:

I concede the points given earlier in this thread, my ill considered knee jerk reaction to discounted Festools in general was posted without considering the fact that the tools mentioned went to a learning institution.

I withdraw my original point and admit the greater wisdom of those kind enough to correct me.

I have however left my original post (the second in this thread) since it started an interesting and worthwhile discussion.

Another thing that strikes me about this thread is that I have been taken to the wood shed and soundly corrected by gentlemen. We have disagreed without anyone getting personal, throwing a tantrum, and without any sign of the childishness that usually plagues chat boards. This place is becoming that truly nice place to hang out it used to be months ago.

 

[Chris Hughes]

Steve,
        Well said Sir.  I own tools that were built a long time ago.  I do in fact concider my tools to be heirlooms, though they my not stay in my family I hope they will be held in the same regard as I held them.  I bought the biggest, baddest routers I could in 1990 and I still use it often.  That router has been rebuilt once but it does its job well.  I bought a of1010 for line boring and a of2200 for solid surface.  Neither functions that my PC is proficient at.
        Most of the trucks that I have owned I would concider "consumable".  I wish there was another way.  Maybe I'll have better luck with 05 Ford.  C Hughes 

 

[Wonderwino]

I am not a professional woodworker (at least by the IRS definition!), just a serious hobbiest who donates time and skill to worthwhile community and honeydoo projects.  The reason I use Festools is the joy of crafting with well-designed, functional and reliable tools.  That is the same reason I buy other quality tools.

I must admit that I troll ebay and estate auctions for quality tools to add to my arsenal and have bought used Festools.  I don't mind a little normal wear as long as the tools still function properly.  I have bought reconditioned DeWalt, Milwaukee and Rigid tools in the past and had no problems with them. 

With all the returned Kapexs we read about, how long will it be until some "factory reconditioned" units will be available?  I don't think offering them to the woodworking public in any way diminishes the value of new tools.  Professionals get a tax deduction for buying equipment; I don't.

 

[nadsab]

Well, whatever the case, it is very clear that returned festool tools are not banished to the island of misfit toys.

 

[JDLee]

About the time I enrolled in the Cabinetmaking program at Seattle Central Community Collage, Festool made a donation to the school of about $10,000.  I may be off a little on the amount; I know it was substantial. 

Richard

Wow, that's like four tools!