Where’s Waldo at Lowes

[Packard]

Not really Waldo, but denatured alcohol.

This is my nearly empty can of denatured alcohol:

Here’s what I saw when I looked for it.  Where is the denatured?  I walked the aisle three times before I spotted it.

And here is the denatured alcohol, (it is at the lower left in the group photo):

Quickly scanning the shelves, I only see “fuel”.  You have to get much closer to notice the denatured alcohol.  Enlarge the group photo and see how much closer you have to be to notice “denatured”.

So, I’m in the paint department of a store.  Looking for thinner.  Why would they prominently display “fuel”?  On my original can, “fuel” and “denatured alcohol” are printed in the same size type.

In today’s Lowes “Fuel” is prominent.  Are they worried about idiots mixing cocktails?  It makes no sense to me.  In the paint department, I’m not looking for “fuel”.

 

[Michael Kellough]

LACQUER THINNER
cleans project tools

Not to be used for thinning lacquer!?

 

[shanegrilah]

Went local Lowe's for fuel line once, which their website showed was in stock but I forgot to note the aisle location. Was it in the small engine parts area? Nope. Was it in the small automotive section? Nope. Finally found a clerk with an electronic doodad that showed locations. It was in plumbing with the vinyl/poly tube. Oh, what a natural place to put it, what was I thinking?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I ran into a similar issue a few weeks ago, looking for mineral spirits. The real stuff, not brush cleaner or the stuff they called "substitute". My local hardware store (Ace affiliate) didn't, the larger lumber store down the street, didn't either.
Since I was planning to use it as a solvent in my wax blends, I wasn't willing to experiment. I just ended up buying some through one of the vendors, at work the next day. Why is this so hard? Maybe a local supply-demand situation? They only focus on what they have sold in the past? but that is somewhat of a self-fulfilling problem. You can only sell from the stock on-hand. Those items that they could have gotten from their supplier, never figure into sales figures.

I did notice the same thing about the alcohol, while searching. There may be something to the idea of "alcohol", thinking someone might try to drink it?
I am surprised by the sheer volume of Lacquer Thinner though. It is available, but far less common, around here. My locals wouldn't stock that much.

LACQUER THINNER
cleans project tools

Not to be used for thinning lacquer!?

That's not so easily available anymore either. Lacquer based paints are pretty much confined to specialty paint stores, not the big-box stores. I actually had quite a time finding the white, that I used on my daughter's kitchen cabinets.
We use quite a bit of the stuff at my work, almost none in paint. That has moved mostly to acrylic. The thinner use is mostly as a solvent to remove contact cement overspray.
We do use lacquer clear, but it is sprayable, through an airless, straight from the can.

Turpentine is conspicuously missing from those shelves too? though I can get that, from the close hardware store. VM&P Naptha too? Some of these terms are somewhat interchanged, but there are differences, usually in evaporation rate. Maybe even local vernacular?

That's really the case with "lacquer thinner". It is a blend of several solvents, based on the evaporation rate. There's a lot of Acetone, but cut with Xylene, Toluene, Benzene, Alcohol, maybe even MEK etc. all of which are used to tune the drying speed.....and of course cut cost, while still selling you enough strength to do what you need, as a solvent.  [unsure]

Of all this, the one that concerns me the most, is probably the Acetone. That stuff is pretty nasty, for just any dummy at a hardware store.

I have seen Bradsaw Joinery (YouTuber in UK) using Isopropyl Alcohol from an aerosol spray can!
I have never seen such a thing here, didn't know it was even available like that?
Amazon seems to have it though. Imagine that, something very flammable, you would think is at least "funny" to ship, yet in stock....easy? What?

 

[Michael Kellough]

From what I’ve read, acetone is way less dangerous than everything else on that shelf. Not clear how it compares to denatured alcohol but it’s certainly less dangerous than the other stuff in lacquer thinner.

 

[Packard]

At the beginning of the Pandemic, I did quite a bit of reading on disinfecting surfaces.

A typical commercial disinfectant has instructions that read something like this:

1.  To clean surfaces, apply and wipe dry.
2.  To sanitize surfaces, apply, allow to sit for 5 minutes, then wipe dry.
3.  To disinfect surfaced, apply, allow to sit for 10 minutes, then wipe dry.

If I were going to use a shopping cart, I can’t see myself waiting 10 minutes to safely grab the handle.

Alcohol, is a very different animal.

Either isopropyl alcohol or denatured alcohol can be used as a disinfectant.  It has to be over 60% alcohol to work (which is why most are packaged at 70% so that evaporation will not render it ineffective). 

As long as the alcohol is over 60%, it will kill bacteria and viruses if allowed to remain on the surface for 20 seconds or more.  (It actually works in less than 20 seconds, but like the 70%, the 20 second number includes a margin of safety.)

What makes no sense at all is using the more expensive 91% alcohol, which by all accounts does not kill faster that the 70% stuff, and usually evaporated too quickly to get the job done.

I think the spray alcohol, usually in 91% dilution is used to clean electrical contacts. The fast drying 91% allows for flushing the contacts faster.  For that application either type of alcohol.

In our tool room, we used 91%, and later lab-grade 99% alcohol for cleaning Prussian blue off of the tools.  The tool makers appreciated the quick dry.  And in 5 gallons containers, the 99% stuff was the same price as the drug store 91%, and the tool makers liked it better.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

He was using it to clean up squeeze-out of Polyurethane glue on pre-painted window sashes. Which is where the spray seemed to be nice. It is more controlled than pouring onto a rag.

We use Denatured Alcohol in solid surface fabrication, in much the same way. I never really paid any attention to the strength though. I don't know if it even says on the can? Most of it is Ethanol, poisoned with some Methanol, I assume to keep the cost and relative toxicity down?

Isopropyl Alcohol always seems to have a strength percentage attached.

From what I’ve read, acetone is way less dangerous than everything else on that shelf. Not clear how it compares to denatured alcohol but it’s certainly less dangerous than the other stuff in lacquer thinner.

None of them are exactly safe  [blink] I guess I was just thinking about volatility. Though I have never tested it personally, some of that stuff is very flammable. All of it burns, but some are rather violent about it.
Acetone is the main ingredient of Lacquer Thinner, the others are there for other reasons, mostly slowing the evaporation rate.

 

[rst]

In the glass industry, excepting having an large air table and cutting machine that scores both sides of laminated glass, we score each side snap and use denatured alcohol lit with lighter to warm the glass enough to warm the vinyl interlayer so we an bend the lite enough to insert a razor blade to separate the pieces.  We used to buy in gallon cans that were all yellow printing,  no matter what solvent they contained.  I was cutting lami one day and when I lit the solvent it burnt much more vigorously than usual.  Wasn’t till a couple cuts that I checked the can, as we used in small squeeze  bottles. Here some one had emptied the alcohol can and put acetone in the squeeze bottle.  Next action was to put the acetone in the paint closet and make a trip for alcohol. Luckily, no eyebrow singeing was involved

 

[Packard]

From what I’ve read, acetone is way less dangerous than everything else on that shelf. Not clear how it compares to denatured alcohol but it’s certainly less dangerous than the other stuff in lacquer thinner.

Well, they use acetone with some fragrance and skin conditioners added as nail polish remover, which is designed to come in contact with the skin.  So I always thought acetone was less dangerous than other solvents.

 

[Packard]

I mix my own wipe-on poly by mixing 50% poly (gloss) with 50% mineral spirits.

The last time I bought mineral spirits all that was available was “low VOC, low odor”.

My worries were misplaced.  Other than drying a little slower, it seemed fine.

 

[Cypren]

Some jurisdictions (like California) are banning a lot of the commonly-used solvents due to air quality concerns, which is what’s led to the rise of the “substitutes”. We may be at a tipping point where enough places are doing this that the large chains are just no longer stocking anything but the substitutes now because it’s easier to sell one thing nationwide.

 

[Packard]

He was using it to clean up squeeze-out of Polyurethane glue on pre-painted window sashes. Which is where the spray seemed to be nice. It is more controlled than pouring onto a rag.

We use Denatured Alcohol in solid surface fabrication, in much the same way. I never really paid any attention to the strength though. I don't know if it even says on the can? Most of it is Ethanol, poisoned with some Methanol, I assume to keep the cost and relative toxicity down?

Isopropyl Alcohol always seems to have a strength percentage attached.

From what I’ve read, acetone is way less dangerous than everything else on that shelf. Not clear how it compares to denatured alcohol but it’s certainly less dangerous than the other stuff in lacquer thinner.

None of them are exactly safe  [blink] I guess I was just thinking about volatility. Though I have never tested it personally, some of that stuff is very flammable. All of it burns, but some are rather violent about it.
Acetone is the main ingredient of Lacquer Thinner, the others are there for other reasons, mostly slowing the evaporation rate.

Another way that denatured alcohol keeps cost down—they don’t have to pay the liquor tax.  If it were drinkable, they would and that would have a big influence on the cost.

 

[twistsol1]

From what I’ve read, acetone is way less dangerous than everything else on that shelf. Not clear how it compares to denatured alcohol but it’s certainly less dangerous than the other stuff in lacquer thinner.

Well, they use acetone with some fragrance and skin conditioners added as nail polish remover, which is designed to come in contact with the skin.  So I always thought acetone was less dangerous than other solvents.

My daughter bought a quart of acetone in high school that she uses as nail polish remover. It was 1/20th of the cost if they don't add the perfume into it that doesn't cover the smell anyway. 15 years later she's about half way through it.

 

[Packard]

From what I’ve read, acetone is way less dangerous than everything else on that shelf. Not clear how it compares to denatured alcohol but it’s certainly less dangerous than the other stuff in lacquer thinner.

Well, they use acetone with some fragrance and skin conditioners added as nail polish remover, which is designed to come in contact with the skin.  So I always thought acetone was less dangerous than other solvents.

My daughter bought a quart of acetone in high school that she uses as nail polish remover. It was 1/20th of the cost if they don't add the perfume into it that doesn't cover the smell anyway. 15 years later she's about half way through it.

That is probably fine for her.  She does not apply nail polish several times a day.  But a worker in a nail salon probably needs the skin conditioners. 

As an aside, nail polish is about the best quality enamel you can buy.  Super shiny, self-levels beautifully, hard and durable.

Of course there is the expense (and disposal of all those tiny bottles.)

Fine Paints of Europe (from Holland) is purported to be the best high gloss enamel available, and the description of how it brushes on resembles nail polish.  It is ungodly expensive, but those that use it swear by it.  They strongly recommend that you use their similarly ungodly expensive thinner.

If your daughter can find the right color, one gallon of Fine Paints of Europe will last as long as the next gallon of acetone that she buys.
https://finepaintsofeurope.com/

 

[leakyroof]

Regarding Mineral Spirits, I have read over the past couple of years that the 'old school' version we all grew up with was going the way of a Low VOC version.

 

[Packard]

Regarding Mineral Spirits, I have read over the past couple of years that the 'old school' version we all grew up with was going the way of a Low VOC version.

I was deeply concerned about that because my go-to clear was wipe-on oil-based poly cut 50% with mineral spirits.  I could not find regular mineral spirits anywhere, but the low V-O-C stuff worked fine, only dried more slowly (though that might have been in my head and not in reality.  The low V-O-C stuff seems fine. 

Addendum:  This is an older thread and I see I made this same comment a while back.  At least I am consistent.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Went to an old school hardware store yesterday to get some diy plumbing washer stock and also some mineral spirits. Didn’t find any ms so resorted to asking and was directed to the “paint thinner”. Was told it’s 100% mineral spirits. Smells like it.

 

[Packard]

Went to an old school hardware store yesterday to get some diy plumbing washer stock and also some mineral spirits. Didn’t find any ms so resorted to asking and was directed to the “paint thinner”. Was told it’s 100% mineral spirits. Smells like it.

There it is.  Top shelf, towards the right.  But why two choices? Plastic container or metal container?

 

[Michael Kellough]

Hmm, in addition to “paint thinner” they have “odorless mineral sprits”.

 

[squall_line]

Went to an old school hardware store yesterday to get some diy plumbing washer stock and also some mineral spirits. Didn’t find any ms so resorted to asking and was directed to the “paint thinner”. Was told it’s 100% mineral spirits. Smells like it.

There it is.  Top shelf, towards the right.  But why two choices? Plastic container or metal container?

The plastic container is KleenStrip Green, which is the Low VOC version.