Which Domino, old small 500, or new large 700

[fshanno]

What if CMT or someone else starts making 4mm 5mm and 6mm bits for the 700? 

How easy would it be to use that huge machine on small pieces?  Is your purpose a one size fits all machine?

Look at the front of the two units.  Is the fence on the 700 any wider than the fence on the 500?  Not much if any and only a little taller.  It's not that huge.  Looks like it will punch 4mm mortises in 1/2" material just as easily as the 500.  The awesome handles look like they more than offset the weight difference.

And look at the stroke.  The tenons for the 700 aren't much wider than the tenons for the 500 so the oscillation is similar.  In fact those new tenons are very unusual looking.  I wonder how many tenons that long and slender have ever been used by woodworkers doing loose tenon joinery in the past.  Once again the Domino ushers in a new day.

I'll bet CMT is licking their chops as we type.  They may have smaller diameter bits available in the US before the 700 itself is available.

At this point I wouldn't even consider a 500.

 

[Timtool]

Look at the front of the two units.  Is the fence on the 700 any wider than the fence on the 500?  Not much if any and only a little taller.  It's not that huge.  Looks like it will punch 4mm mortises in 1/2" material just as easily as the 500.  The awesome handles look like they more than offset the weight difference.
...
At this point I wouldn't even consider a 500.

I may have thought the same before i got the 700, but 500 users know that it's not always easy to hold it perfectly flat, resulting in joints that aren't flush. And you can hold the 500 with the fence knob and use you other hand to push it.
The 700 weighs allot more and must be held with both hands, it requires more energy and accuracy to get the same accuracy as the 500. 4-10mm cutters on the 700 would be as practical as doing all your drill and drive work with a 36volt drill or all your routing with a 2000W router. It's possible, but how practical is it really.

 

[spikfot]

What if CMT or someone else starts making 4mm 5mm and 6mm bits for the 700? 

Impractical.

 

[Stone Message]

I think the real issue will be the strength of the material that the cutters are made from. Hard and sharp cutters are brittle and at the length that they might need to be for the indexing to match up (ie same length as the other cutters) the 4, 5 and 6 mm ones would struggle to last any time at all.

Peter

 

[fshanno]

I think the real issue will be the strength of the material that the cutters are made from. Hard and sharp cutters are brittle and at the length that they might need to be for the indexing to match up (ie same length as the other cutters) the 4, 5 and 6 mm ones would struggle to last any time at all.

Peter

Why would they need to be longer than the current ones?  You might have to plunge a bit to get them to engage but that's the way the 4mm bit works in the 500 right now.

You're pretty good with that XL based on what I see in your videos.  It's hard to believe you couldn't make a 5mm bit work in that thing even if it is a beast. 

If I didn't already have a Domino I would be one of those who would buy a 500 even after the 700 is available because I rarely use the the 8mm and 10mm tenons.  But that won't stop me from yanking Festool's chain about it.  They need to go ahead and offer a full range of bits for the new machine.  And who knows what the folks at CMT are up to?

 

[jmbfestool]

I think the real issue will be the strength of the material that the cutters are made from. Hard and sharp cutters are brittle and at the length that they might need to be for the indexing to match up (ie same length as the other cutters) the 4, 5 and 6 mm ones would struggle to last any time at all.

Peter

Why would they need to be longer than the current ones?  You might have to plunge a bit to get them to engage but that's the way the 4mm bit works in the 500 right now.

You're pretty good with that XL based on what I see in your videos.  It's hard to believe you couldn't make a 5mm bit work in that thing even if it is a beast.  

If I didn't already have a Domino I would be one of those who would buy a 500 even after the 700 is available because I rarely use the the 8mm and 10mm tenons.  But that won't stop me from yanking Festool's chain about it.  They need to go ahead and offer a full range of bits for the new machine.  And who knows what the folks at CMT are up to?

I agree with you!   Im kinda waiting to see if CMT makes some cutters for the 700.    Funny really cus I was tlkin 2 my mate yesterday about the 500 and 700 as hes interested in the 700 more so than the 500 cus he makes a lot of windows and doors but would like the possibility of smaller dominos for the occasional job which require smaller dominos BUT cant justify buying both dominos for the little amount he will be using the smaller 500.  He was asking me if the 700 crossed over to the 500 size range   I told him no but CMT will probs make some cutters in the future for the 700 any way.      

So Fshanno even though every one seems against you arguing the fact its down to the accuracy and weight crap and thats why they dont do smaller cutters   I think it has nothing to do with it.     It might be other factors like mentioned cutter strength/lenght I dont know but it aint the accuracy and weight and size they have nothing to do with it.  

I believe one of the reasons could be if they made the 700 do what the 500 can then the 500 would loose a lot of potential sales as like my mate would just buy the 700  and not both.   Maybe people who will be doing a lot of large and very small dominos would buy both still even though the 700 could do the entire range but them type of people will be very limited and you will find a lot of people would just buy the 700 if it would do the full range  me being one of those people!

 

[Kev]

Even knowing the 700 was coming, I purchased a 500 recently as I know I'll want to use both over time. It'll probably be a few months until supply filters through to Australia - Oz being they inventory bum end of the world !! (we're still clearing steam powered versions of some Festool models in the local supply chain).

** I'm only whining because I couldnt get T-Loc Systainer versions of the T18 and Carvex Accessories just recently  [crying]

Kev.

 

[PaulMarcel]

Even knowing the 700 was coming, I purchased a 500 recently as I know I'll want to use both over time. It'll probably be a few months until supply filters through to Australia - Oz being they inventory bum end of the world !! (we're still clearing steam powered versions of some Festool models in the local supply chain).

** I'm only whining because I couldnt get T-Loc Systainer versions of the T18 and Carvex Accessories just recently  [crying]

Kev.

Ah, but you could get the Carvex!

 

[Kev]

Even knowing the 700 was coming, I purchased a 500 recently as I know I'll want to use both over time. It'll probably be a few months until supply filters through to Australia - Oz being they inventory bum end of the world !! (we're still clearing steam powered versions of some Festool models in the local supply chain).

** I'm only whining because I couldnt get T-Loc Systainer versions of the T18 and Carvex Accessories just recently  [crying]

Kev.

Ah, but you could get the Carvex!

Yes - irony is I got a extra T-Loc Sys2 to migrate the Carvex accessories into and relegated the old Sys2 to the old Hitachi jigsaw ..

Has anyone noticed how Systainers multiply ??

 

[houtvanpieter]

Is it possible to use the XL for 18mm sheetgoods?

 

[tbellemare]

Is it possible to use the XL for 18mm sheetgoods?

The smallest factory bit for the Domino XL is 8mm dia. If you cantered it perfectly, you would have 5mm on either side. Most would consider that too little.

The the normal bit to use for 18mm sheet goods is 6mm or maybe 5mm.

Tom

 

[houtvanpieter]

Thanks Tom,
So the machine itself is not to big for 18mm sheetgoods, you can set the settings on the machine to use with 18mm.

 

[tbellemare]

'Good question...

The shortest distance from the fence to the center of the bit is 10mm unless I'm missing a trick.

Tom

 

[semenza]

'Good question...

The shortest distance from the fence to the center of the bit is 10mm unless I'm missing a trick.

Tom

  That is important to note for anyone considering the XL with aftermarket smaller diameter bits for use on 3/4" sheet goods. An additional shim or spacer piece would be needed.

Seth

 

[Stone Message]

... If it is measured to the centre of the bit then bit diameter does not come into the equation.

Peter

 

[tbellemare]

To center the bit on an 18mm workpiece, the fence would need to be 9mm from the center of the bit. It can be done as Seth pointed out but it's not elegant.

Tom

 

[semenza]

Center of the bit  [doh]   Misread that.    :

Seth

 

[houtvanpieter]

Okay, so when i understand it well, if you want to center the mortise vertically in 18mm wood/sheetgood a specer piece or shim would be needed.

 

[Stone Message]

I made up a spacer plate out of 4mm Perspex that fits snugly on the face of the DF 500. That gives you a new distance to the cutter centre line of 6 mm. The Perspex means that the pencil lines can be seen when doing cuts.

Peter

 

[semenza]

Okay, so when i understand it well, if you want to center the mortise vertically in 18mm wood/sheetgood a specer piece or shim would be needed.

Right, but it is only  1mm off center for 18mm plywood.  Which really isn't a problem, you just need to keep track of which side you referenced from so that everything aligns.  I would be inclined to avoid using 8mm Dominos in 18mm sheet goods.  The 5mm, & 6mm work well in the edge of 18mm sheet goods.

Seth