Which Rotex sander?

[Peter Hamilton-Scott]

I've read the best I can about the 150 and 125 sanders. At this time I'm only into small area sanding and it looks like the 125 will be about right for the occasional usage I'd make of it. However, I have this nagging thought that somewhere down the line a 150 might be better. I can't say for sure what my sanding requirements might be later but put me in the hobbyist hole.

1. Is there any killer reason why I should go for the 150 in preference? The UK price difference is roughly 80GBP between the 150 and the 125.

2. Is it possible to use third-party sanding discs on them, assuming there are any available? I'm not sure if there is any patent protecting their design.

3. Initially, I'd not be able to buy a dust extractor. Yes, I know that's that silly given the nature of sanding but that's the rub of it. Most things I'd have to sand outside and trust a fair wind blows in my direction so wearing a mask is the best I can do. I do know from other sanders that the disc can "choke" on occasions but I have to work with what I have. Is the dust extraction with either sander reasonably ok without being connected to a vac? That is, the bulk of it can pass through the exhaust port?

I'm going to a Festool dealer day next Tuesday. I'm tempted to get a Rotex while I'm there.

 

[Aegwyn11]

I got the RO150. Love it. The more I use it, the more I love it.

I mostly picked the 150 because of the added area. I wouldn't doubt that some day I could own both. One potential significant difference...I don't think there is a polishing pad for the 125.

As for the vac...my first project with my RO150/CT22 was my deck outside. I did about half the deck with my Makita belt sander. I live in South Dakota so we get a good bit of wind. I still noticed a HUGE difference when I went to the RO150/CT22....made it much less of a chore. I can understand not being able to get both at the same time...I would just recommend the CT sooner rather than later.

 

[sw1211]

Depending on whether you also have the 125 or 150/3 or 5, you should consider going with the same size Rotex.  That way you won't have to stock up on two different sizes of sandpaper.  If you have sanders that are both 5 & 6" then this isn't an issue. 

 

[jonny round boy]

Peter,

I'd go for the 6" myself. I was in a similar situation to you, and I was looking at the RO125. I decided that I liked the 6" more, but couldn't afford it, so got the ETS150/3 instead. Never regretted that, but I suppose it depends on whether you need the rotex function.

6" gives you more choice on abrasives, too. A lot of mfr's make compatible disks.

As far as the quality of abrasives goes, most cheap DIY sanders are 5", and the likes of Wickes/Screwfix/B&Q stock 5" disks for these. Trust me, they are not worth having, the quality is abysmal. 5" disks are available everywhere, but good quality 5" disks are like rocking horse s**t (except Festool, of course).

Most professional sanders use 6", and as such the quality of most 6" disks is far superior.

 

[score0matic]

Peter,
I'd go for the 6" myself. I was in a similar situation to you, and I was looking at the RO125. I decided that I liked the 6" more, but couldn't afford it, so got the ETS150/3 instead. Never regretted that, but I suppose it depends on whether you need the rotex function.

Same here. i went with the ETS 150 first because so many folks I respect think it is superior to the ETS 125, or any other finish sander of its type, as a primary reason and the idea that I only need to purchase 6" paper when I get the RO 150 following close behind.
Craig

 

[Peterm]

I have the RO150 and it's a great 'all-round' sander, but I have found times when it's just that little bit too big. Most of the time it's perfect for what I do, but I've had a few doors to prep recently and the 6" pad won't quite fit between the mouldings on these old Victorian front doors, whereas a 5" would just squeeze in.

I guess what I'm saying is that it depends what your intended uses are, and as others have suggested, think seriously about whether you'll really use all the functions a Rotex provides. My first Festool sander was a 150/5 and it's still my favourite in terms of size, weight and handling; I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

Best of  luck with your decision,

Pete.

 

[justinmcf]

hi peter, in response to your 3 questions....

1. i dont own a rotex but have used other peoples extensively. i always prefer bigger sanders because of the volume of work i do. you may not need the 150, based on the type of work you will be doing.

2. yes, there are third party discs available. stay away! i repeat, stay away! i have tried this and failed miserably. the velcro (hoop and loop) will get damaged using cheaper sand paper. you will end up damaging the sanding pad. stick with festool sandpaper, it is only marginally more expensive. but 1 festool disc will last you longer than  1 other cheaper brand of disc, therefor if you buy the cheap discs, your initial saving is flushed down the bog/ porcelain office!

3. dont worry about buying a dust extractor now. the dust bag which comes with the sander work great. you may want to get a dust mask as a precaution also.

btw, i also use the ets 150/5 and the ets 150/3. i agree with the other posters, if you buy a sander, make sure all your other sanders will have the same size discs. i only need to buy 1 size. 150mm.

regards, justin.

 

[woodguy7]

Pete

I have a rotex 150 & a makita 5".  I have never used the makita since i got the rotex.  The rotex is superb but i will be getting an ets 150/3 soon as it seems to be the opinion of many on this forum to give the best finish.
Abranet do a disc for 5" sanders which are a type of mesh with no holes which work well but the edges shred if you hit anything.

Personally, i have had various 5" sanders in the past but now that i have the 6" rotex i wouldn't buy anything else.

Justin, I'm not sure but i don't think you can get a dust bag for the rotex, but i could be wrong.

Woodguy.

 

[justinmcf]

thanks woodguy, i forgot to mention, that was a diy fix. i have used a filter cartridge from my ets sanders and taped it to the rotex. it was better than sucking dust that day!
regards, justin.

 

[woodguy7]

Justin,

Thats good to know for when i get the ets, but seeing as i just took delivery of a new cleantex, hopefully i wont be using any dust bags 

Cheers, Woodguy.

 

[rwdawson]

Peter,

I own the RO 150 and ETS 150/3 and would buy the same again, if I had to.  And, I agree with everything that's been said so far, except for one relatively minor point.

I see the decision to buy sanders of the same size, in part because that eliminates duplication of grits of different sized disks, as being essentially a non issue.  The two sanders I own perform different tasks, and there is very little overlap -- perhaps two or three grits -- between them.  I like the performance and the feel of my sanders, and believe they are the best choice for me.  That they take the same size disks doesn't matter. That they meet my expectations does.

Once you understand your requirements, the choice should be obvious.

Richard

 

[AlexThePalex]

1. Is there any killer reason why I should go for the 150 in preference? The UK price difference is roughly 80GBP between the 150 and the 125.

There is no killer reason as far as I know. I originally wanted to have the 125 model but ended up with the 150 through chance. I'm just an amateur with a lower tool budget than a pro so I was looking for a 2nd hand Ro125, but they're very hard to find used since they aren't as much sold as the 150. I was frustrated that I couldn't find the 125 since I needed one desperately since my previous 125 mm sander died after 16 years. So I put in a very low bid on a 150 when I saw it, knowing very well I would never get it for my bid. To my surprise I got a reaction in 15 minutes and was a RO150 owner the next day.

I can only say that I am very happy with my Ro150. But for what I use it, and knowing for what most people use it, it is overkill in 80-90% of the cases it gets used. The 125 would do just as well in all those cases. You will only see a clear advantage with the 150 when you're sanding really large surfaces. I'm talking about 4 square meters and up. Below that the 125 will do every job just as fast and easy. The 125 might be the smaller version of the 150, but it's still a BEAST. In fact, with a lot of cases, it might even be better since it's easier to handle than the 150. Also, it could reach a lot of places the 150 is too big for.

But two things come in mind against the 125.

1 - Some people reported that the 125 has a tendency to wobble. Since I (unfortunately) have never used the 125, I don't know if it is (as they say) because it has too much power for the small disk, or that they simply don't know how to control it.

2 - Johnny Round Boy makes a VERY GOOD point about the availability of disks. Your choice for 150mm discs will be exponentially bigger than for 125mm discs. Even Festools' own range for the 150 is a lot bigger than for the 125. The Dutch Festool site lists 75 125mm products versus 175 for the 150mm. That's quite a difference. I also know about at least 6 or 7 other manufacturers that make discs for Festool's 8+1 hole pattern in 150mm discs, but I have only seen ONE ODD box of 125mm paper made by an other manufacturer.

2. Is it possible to use third-party sanding discs on them, assuming there are any available? I'm not sure if there is any patent protecting their design.

Third party discs are available. You do have to look around for them. 3M and SIA make them for instance. Dunno about patents and all, I just know you can buy them since I have bought them.

I completey disagree with justinmcf when he says:

2. yes, there are third party discs available. stay away! i repeat, stay away! i have tried this and failed miserably.

Maybe justin had bad luck with a shady brand, but I've used 3 types of 8+1 hole discs from other manufacturers by now and found each and every one of them to be of high quality. All well known professional brands. Unfortunately, they cost about the same as Festool sandpaper so there is no saving to be made. In fact, I think Festool's paper is very good value for the money and it's very competitively priced. However, some other brands might have papers that better suit certain tasks. Only this afternoon did I try out a brand named FlexOvit on a large patch of 2 part putty, and boy did this work good! Better than any Festool paper I have tried.     

Is the dust extraction with either sander reasonably ok without being connected to a vac? That is, the bulk of it can pass through the exhaust port?

There is no dustbag for the Rotex models. And as far as my RO150 is concerned, dust collection without a vac is virtually non-existant. It's one big mess. 

I'm going to a Festool dealer day next Tuesday. I'm tempted to get a Rotex while I'm there.

You won't regret getting either of the Rotex models. I got the 150 and I still want the 125 too.

 

[JeromeM]

3. Initially, I'd not be able to buy a dust extractor. Yes, I know that's that silly given the nature of sanding but that's the rub of it. Most things I'd have to sand outside and trust a fair wind blows in my direction so wearing a mask is the best I can do. I do know from other sanders that the disc can "choke" on occasions but I have to work with what I have. Is the dust extraction with either sander reasonably ok without being connected to a vac? That is, the bulk of it can pass through the exhaust port?

I would say do not use either Rotex without some kind of Vac. IMHO you will be loosing out on one of the big advantages of the festool sanders.

I started with a Rotex 150, an old wet and dry vac and the non anti-static hose.
That combination got me convinced. I did try it without the  vac and was not impressed.

As you can see I was working outside so dust control was not a priority.

 

[Nigel]

I'd go for the RO150 unless you have specific small pieces to sand.It' easier to sand flat with the 150.Festool sand paper and if you can't get a vac even a cheapo then I'd nick one from the house and tape it on or soften some pvc wastepipe to connect it.I might be wrong but I think the rotex was designed only to be used with extraction.I guess the paper would clog real fast and as these sanders remove material fast there'd be a fair bit of dust.You might be OK with a strong wind though!Good luck.

 

[Peter Hamilton-Scott]

Fantastic and very, very informative replies. Thanks guys. It looks like the 150 wins the day. I was initially a bit concerned that the sanding discs were going to be mega-expensive but that seems less of a problem now. Hooking the beast to my home (Dysan) vac might be a potential problem but I reckon any vac will be better than no vac. I think the Festool rep going to the dealer open day next week may well have the sanders on show so maybe I'll get to see the vac in use as well. The tragedy is that I may be offsetting the cost of the CMS table and router attachment against the sander. What is a lad to do. So many Festools. So little money. :'(

Edit: Aha! I just noticed on the Festool UK site that it shows different classes of sander. Upto now I only doffed my hat at the Rotex but I see the ETS 150 is available in different stroke rates. Having reviewed the specs of the Rotex I can appreciate it that it might be overkill for now as I don't have a need for the advanced functions. It looks now as if the ETS is the better solution for now (the Rotex can come later!) as it can be fitted with a dust bag. I was curious about the 3mm, 5mm and 7mm stroke. I have a cheap and somewhat clapped-out B*sch rotary sander. I've no idea what stroke that has but I am right in thinking that a 3mm sander would give you a more controlled finish in tight spaces than a 7mm? And that a 7mm will effectively remove material more 'aggressively' than the 3mm but will still give the same finish?

 

[Peter Hamilton-Scott]

...and tape it on or soften some pvc wastepipe to connect it...

Nigel, I can't quite visualise how to soften PVC wastepipe. The wastepipe I'm familiar with is the stuff my gutter down pipes are made from. Very stiff PVC that I can only work with a saw. I've probably missed what you have in mind but could you explain the material and process further for me? Thanks.

 

[jonny round boy]

Peter,

Yes, the ETS is available in either 3 or 5mm stroke (but not 7mm, that's the WTS). The 3mm stroke will be a slightly finer finish. The Rotex has a 5mm stroke, so in random orbit mode it is the same as the ETS150/5. That's why I went for the /3, so that when I got a Rotex I wouldn't be duplicating a function.

 

[Peter Hamilton-Scott]

Peter,

Yes, the ETS is available in either 3 or 5mm stroke (but not 7mm, that's the WTS). The 3mm stroke will be a slightly finer finish. The Rotex has a 5mm stroke, so in random orbit mode it is the same as the ETS150/5. That's why I went for the /3, so that when I got a Rotex I wouldn't be duplicating a function.

Thanks JRB. It's becoming much clearer to me now. I certainly think the ETS 150/3 is the more practical option and like you, the Rotex can always come later though hopefully not too late!

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Aha! I just noticed on the Festool UK site that it shows different classes of sander.

You might want to check out the Consolidated List of Festool Links in my signature, as it tries to bring together the huge amount of information available on the Internet about Festool products, including sanders and abrasives. Of particular interest might be:

28 page brochure Sanding and polishing: The Festool system for carpenters. It's rather "coffee-tablish", but might be of interest.

Jerry Work's excellent 33 page Getting the Most from Festool Sanders which is much more detailed and practical, but is aimed at the USA market (eg it mentions the RS2E which isn't available in the UK, and doesn't mention the RAS180 or the two belt sanders, which are available in the UK but not the USA).

The 58 page Sanding section of Festool UK's 2010-2011 catalogue

Forrest

 

[Nigel]

Peter,the pipe I'm talking about is grey waste.I can't remember what's available in the UK but in France it's 32,40,50,80 and 100mm.If you heat it up carefully with a blow torch (outside) without setting it on fire it becomes quite malleable.You can then push it on to a larger diameter section or connector and let it harden which it does quickly.It doesn't bond so you can wiggle it of if you want.It all depends on what you want to connect and to what.I use 32 and 40mm regularly for this on tools with odd connections or for connecting a homemade router fence for example.You can also glue it with pcv wastepipe glue.However if you have all Festool ncluding vac you can forget all that because the tools fit very nicely 8).Maybe oneday.....