Which scroll saws are good?

[RC]

I'm thinking of acquiring a scroll saw for the kids to learn tinkering with wood and build models, but most of the ones I have seen in local hardware stores seem a bit flimsy and imprecise (aluminum tables, no positive stops on tilt, 100W power, etc.)

Since I don't know much about the scroll saw scene I'd like to hear which makes/models are considered quality tools in this segment and also if anyone has experience with the Carvex in a CMS would that work as a scroll saw substitute in the Festool system?

 

[ajones]

Has to be hegner not cheap though...

 

[PeterK]

Top of the line is the Eclipse - made to order. Only true vertical cut saw. About $1800 I think.
Next is Hegner - several models available. Recommend 18" or 22" model. Can save money by purchasing at a traveling WoodWorking Show. I have one. About $1100-1500.
Next is Excaliber. Has a tilt saw with fixed table.
Not sure if RBI is still in business. Heavy duty but somewhat clumsy to use.
Then Dewalt or now sold under Delta name I think. I had the Dewalt and just hated it for my use. Could not do stack cuts as the saw blade orbits so much that the top piece would look radically different from the bottom. Would not look below this level. The Dewalt sells for around $500.
Do a search on Scroll Saws and you will find several forums and guys/gals who are true experts.

 

[Kev]

100 watts is quite common for a scrolL saw ...

I paid a kings ransom for a scroll saw many years ago and I'm surprised how little use I had for it ... I've still got the bookshelf full of toy making books, but I let the saw go over a year ago.

Scroll saws a very easy to spend a lot of money on - be careful !

Personally, if you haven't had one before, get something basic ... (that is unless you have specific needs in mind).

 

[Kev]

I paid a kings ransom for a scroll saw many years ago and I'm surprised how little use I had for it ... I've still got the bookshelf full of toy making books, but I let the saw go over a year ago.

Sounds like it needs to be sold. I bet you're holding onto it just in case. But, scroll saws will always be needed when someone wants to cut away inside stock. One of these days, someone might design a bandsaw blade that can be easily separated and then watch the scroll saw market go flat.

No - its sold ... A bandsaw (smallish) will be on the cards later. I'm not really into very fine stuff - so I can't see me getting one again any time soon.

 

[dltflt]

Hegner then Excaliber

 

[RC]

So what makes Hegner better than Excalibur? It looks very industrial to say the least and has a tilting table like every other scroll saw except the Excalibur...

I could get either an Excalibur EX21 for 761€ or a Hegner Multicut 2S for about 790€ with shipping for both. I kind of prefer the looks of the Excalibur but I'm not picky if quality or usability is trumped by a less good looking machine.

Scroll Saw Magazine found the Excalibur to be the winner in it's price range but the Hegners there are older model than the current Hegner Models available today so I don't know how comparable they are?

I don't think I can justify any 1000€+ model even though my S.O. actually admitted today that this would be the first and only tool that she would have real use for doing jigsaw puzzles and something called intarsia with my daughter. I'd just use it for cutting some spiral shaped trivets since doing it with my jigsaw is a bit dodgy with the vac hose & electric cable getting wrapped around my had on the third circle that it's not funny  [tongue]

 

[Mauri Motti]

Terve Reiska,

From ebay germany I found thisthis which could make the Hegner Multicut under € 790 (636 ex shipping) if they ask reasonable shipping costs. Just a suggestion.

Kind regards from Tampere

 

[RC]

Thanks Mauri, but basically that's the same prise that GW Werkzeuge has for the equivalent single speed model as well. the 790€ is for the speed adjustable version the 2s (pr 769€ + shipping to be exact).

A couple of people have given props for GW for descent delivery on kotiverstas so it wouldn't be worth taking the ebay gamble for 12€.

I've done some more reading and if I'm understanding the rare bits of info I find about the Hegners (except that everyone who owns one thinks its awesome) is that they have a track record of stocking spare parts forever (since WW2 as someone put it) and it has integrated dust collection ducts unlike the Excalibur one. Anything else? Does the upper arm lift up like in the Excalibur to facilitate the feeding of the blade through pilot holes?

 

[fdengel]

Since I don't know much about the scroll saw scene I'd like to hear which makes/models are considered quality tools in this segment and also if anyone has experience with the Carvex in a CMS would that work as a scroll saw substitute in the Festool system?

I would assume this would only peg the blade at one end, which allows it to wobble a bit.

A real scroll saw has the blade attached at both ends, so it stays straight during the cuts.

 

[RONWEN]

Since the focus is for the kids to use & make things I would think a carvex or other jig saw inverted & mounted in a table would be up to the tasks they need.  It obviously wouldn't do very fine work that a good scroll saw would do but that may be something the kids need to grow their skills to achieve, then get them a fine scroll saw.

 

[RC]

I've all but ditched the idea of an inverted jigsaw since probably even a 70€ scrollsaw from LIDL would do better than that for cutting shapes and for the price of a CMS base + plate + Carvex one can get a pretty good scroll saw  [big grin]

 

[RONWEN]

I've all but ditched the idea of an inverted jigsaw since probably even a 70€ scrollsaw from LIDL would do better than that for cutting shapes and for the price of a CMS base + plate + Carvex one can get a pretty good scroll saw  [big grin]

The CMS & Carvex aren't available to us so I don't know prices.  I had in mind more along the line of something like a Bosch jig saw (works great) and making a simple base to mount it inverted.
I have a "cheap" Craftsman scroll saw that I have had for years, it was something like $250. -- it's a pain to change the pinned blades so inside cuts are out of the question.  Aside from that it does an OK job on thinner stock.
If I were interested in getting more into scroll work I would probably get the Hegner 18" saw but that seems like a way over-kill for kids starting out making things.
When I was about 10 years old I got a little jig saw & book of plans for Christmas -- I spent hours & hours making everything in the book and other things.  I'm guessing it's total cost would be well under $100 in today's dollars but I surely got a lot of enjoyment from it.

 

[mouppe]

Have you looked at the proxxon machines? Some are good some are not but they are suitable for modeling.

An excellent way to combine wood and models is to build one of the hasegawa 1/8 scale museum models. The Fokker and wright flyer are in production currently. They are not cheap but they are fantastic kits and if done right you can build a stunning model. I built two and enjoyed every minute.

 

[CDM]

I'm thinking of acquiring a scroll saw for the kids

I don't have a scroll saw but I have been using an inverted Trion for a variety of cutting tasks lately.  It is definitely not something I'd operate near small hands.

For my kids (now 5 and 8 years old), my wife got a "Playmat 4-in-1" a year or so ago.  See www.4in1workshop.com.  It sounds like your kids may be older, but the the concept is nice nonetheless - an inverted jigsaw, a disc sander, a drill press, and a lathe all in one.  No dust collection, but otherwise very kid-safe.  Another nice German wood-working product.

 

[GaryLaroff]

I do a lot of scrollsaw work in wood 1 inch and thinner and in veneer.  My work is scroll work for furniture and intricate work with marquetry, both stack cutting and double-bevel technique.  I rarely use coarse blades and most of my work is with #2 blades in thick wood and #2/0 to #5/0 in veneer.  For manual (non-electric) scrollsaws, some of our club members use #5/0 to #8/0 blades which are little more than wire.

I second the comments above from PeterK.  Despite having personally cursed at Dewalt scrollsaws for years, I used a friend’s Dewalt for four days last year demonstrating marquetry at the State Fair and must admit it tracked #5/0 blades without trouble.  It was one of earliest Dewalts and is the exception to the rule.  My view is that any of the Dewalt saws made in the last ten years are not worth buying.

My favorites are the Hegners and I have two of them.  One was purchased in 1989 and gets a lot of use.  They cut through the thickest material or the thinnest veneer with any blade you wish.  20 years from now they will function as rattle free as the day you bought them.  Almost all my work requires feeding the blade through a pin hole in the veneer and this is easy to do with the Hegner if you use the quickclamp as the top blade clamp.

I haven’t read all the posts so this might be redundant:  One test I would run on any saw I was about to buy is to remove the blade and turn the saw on.  If the top arm vibrates madly, smashing up and down, don’t buy that brand of saw.  When a blade breaks, the saw should still run and vibrate, but the top arm is not supposed to rapidly hit you in the face and knock your teeth out.  Of the saws mentioned, the Eclipse and Excalibur don’t have anything that could bounce up and hit you and the Hegner top arm just sits there and vibrates.  There are a few brands that are poorly designed and are dangerous that way.  If you are looking at a brand that has not been mentioned, please check it out first.  Good scrollsaws are very safe and are good for use by children.

[attachimg=#]

The above photo is a marquetry design based on a picture copyrighted by Disney.

Gary Laroff
Columbia River Chapter
American Marquetry Society

 

[RC]

Wow! Beautiful tray there Gary!

And thanks for the tip about the arm flailing - haven't seen that mentioned elsewhere.

My son is 5 & daughter 14 and I guess the main users for a scroll saw in our household would be my daughter & wife so a pure toy is sort of redundant, but thanks for the tip CDM.

I guess a Hegner seems to be universally the highest regarded machine judging by your & other suggestions I've dug up with Google.

How well does the dust collection work on a Hegner if it's plugged into say a CT vac? Could one reasonably use one on the living room table inside without having dust all over the place? Or is this kind of a machine workshop only?

 

[PeterK]

On my 22" Hegner, I have a dust pickup under the table that came with the saw. Use my CT vac and it works quite well. I don't notice any fly-around type dust although I do get a small amount on the top surface of the wood being cut. I could easily use this in my house in a utility room or such if it had hard floors to make any cleanup easier. Really I don't get enough dust to worry about. Without the vac is a different story! Best to use a quiet vac with speed control. A CT Mini or the smallest Fein vacs work great for this usage as they are so quiet and don't get in the way. Used to be we would have crafters working in the mall here and that is how they set up. Of course, dust is material dependant so cutting ceramics and such create very fine powder that tends to want to float off while wood dust stays more local. Hope that helps.

 

[RONWEN]

Although not quite in the same category as an Excalibur, Hegner or Eclipse perhaps aspiring young woodworkers could have a lot of fun with one of these... 

https://bladerunner.buytvtools.com/?cid=482&leadsource=EM482

 

[RC]

Unfortunately the Bladerunner seems to be a NA-only product with its 1120V~60Hz motor (I guess a little typo on the website, eh)  [tongue]

But seriously talking that would probably suffice for the "needs" my S.O. has but NAIEU seems to be the ticket here for once  [cool]