Which Sys Air???

[Dr. P. Venkman]

I'm having this debate with myself right now, and I'm curious for any additional input or experience.

I'm definitely getting one of these. I had been considering it, but what sealed the deal was some work I was doing in one of my kids' rooms recently. Sanding ~100 feet of shelving with edges that mean the sander hangs off and dust extraction gets worse and corners/nooks/crannies that require hand sanding had the room way dustier than I wanted. At one point, I aimed a fan out the window to try to clear the air. Then I let the room sit for a few hours to try to clean it.

I'll be doing more of that kind of work inside, and I need it to be cleaner than it was. I'll also make good use of it in the garage/shop when I'm out there.

Given the systainer form factor and the general faith I have in Festool's dust extraction, it's too elegant of a solution to a real problem for me to pass up.

That leaves the question of the HEPA or non-HEPA.

I calculated theoretical maximum number of times each unit can cycle the air in a few different rooms:

Room	HEPA	Non-HEPA
Kids' rooms	10.4	16.7
Playroom	4.4	7.1
Shop/Garage	2.9	4.7

For the kids' rooms and smaller, I think the HEPA moves enough air, but that's a pretty good difference once you start increasing the room size. Considering that those theoretical maximums probably aren't met in practice, that's not a lot of cycles in the larger areas (though I can help it out by positioning it near the work I'm doing).

Any thoughts or reactions? For those of you who were on the fence and made a choice between the two, have you been happy with your choice?

Thanks.

 

[onocoffee]

In my discussions with Festool reps they tend to recommend the non-HEPA to most woodworkers - saving the HEPA for the painters and drywall people. However, since you seem to be working with drywall, that may be the path for you because the HEPA filtration supposedly catches the drywall dust. The HEPA doesn't have the same air flow capacity but it supposedly filters it all.

 

[Dr. P. Venkman]

I’m not working with drywall, really. Just the odd patch here and there. The stuff indoors is finishing cabinets and shelves that are attached to drywall, but I’m not actually doing anything with the drywall itself (unless I damage it ).

The biggest drywall work I’ll likely do is repairing anything that’s unusable after removing old cabinets.

I’m leaning toward the non-HEPA for the airflow.

 

[woodferret]

My shop is roughly 150 sqft. HEPA version is perfectly fine. I bought the extra hose kit, and just stack the entire thing on top of a RB cart, bringing it up to slightly above workbench height. Being able to position it closer to the work is key, as it allows the 'limited' airflow move the light stuff quicker. The difference, I'd probably have to double the CFM for the ceiling mounted to get the same level of clean just because of air/dust dynamics.

* edit: ya, I bought mine for non-shop painting and sanding mostly. The wood sanding dust is mostly captured just on the prefilter and easily knocked out. My inner HEPA is just slightly yellow now.

 

[Dr. P. Venkman]

My shop is roughly 150 sqft. HEPA version is perfectly fine. I bought the extra hose kit, and just stack the entire thing on top of a RB cart, bringing it up to slightly above workbench height. Being able to position it closer to the work is key, as it allows the 'limited' airflow move the light stuff quicker. The difference, I'd probably have to double the CFM for the ceiling mounted to get the same level of clean just because of air/dust dynamics.

* edit: ya, I bought mine for non-shop painting and sanding mostly. The wood sanding dust is mostly captured just on the prefilter and easily knocked out. My inner HEPA is just slightly yellow now.

Great info. Thanks!

 

[MrToolJunkie]

I have had no regrets with my non-HEPA and it has vastly improved air quality. I also run an old Delta air scrubber from the ceiling in dusty situations. I have debated getting a HEPA too and plugging them in together and to have if I really need ultra-fine dust, but I am not sure it is worth the cost for the added benefit. I am not doing this 8 hours a day, 5 days a week either.

 

[Chainring]

Since it's mostly a discussion of HEPA vs. not, has anyone seen the new DeWALT fan with a HEPA filter, AQ monitor and temp/humidity?

DXF1612

Amazon.com: DEWALT 16'' Industrial Air Cleaner Fan with HEPA Filter, Ultra Quiet, High Velocity 4000CFM Shop Fan with PM2.5 Monitoring, 360° Tilt, Captures Dust, Debris & Particles, for Jobsite, Workshop & Garage : Home & Kitchen

Buy DEWALT 16'' Industrial Air Cleaner Fan with HEPA Filter, Ultra Quiet, High Velocity 4000CFM Shop Fan with PM2.5 Monitoring, 360° Tilt, Captures Dust, Debris & Particles, for Jobsite, Workshop & Garage: Floor Fans - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Unfortunately, there's this: "This product does not meet California air cleaner regulation requirements, and cannot be shipped to California"

 

[Eko]

Like many here I too am trying to decide between the HEPA and M class SYS-AIR. In addition to a shop-specific purifier I've also been researching other air purifiers for use in the main living areas and one thing that quickly became obvious was all of the marketing voodoo involved with the term "HEPA." I've since learned that the one-size-fits-all definition of what a HEPA filter is and is supposed to do is not always the same depending on the product, the manufacturer, and their marketing dept. In short, HEPA is not always true HEPA.

In the process of trying to separate the wheat from the chaff I stumbled across a seemingly well-respected Swiss company IQAir that is trying to clarify why not all HEPA filters are the same and how the various testing methodologies and certification ratings assigned to air purifiers might not tell the whole story and may in some cases be misleading. The link below is worth reading in its entirety as it helped me to understand the nuances of HEPA filtration and AQ ratings found on most purifiers. Of course, this company is in business to sell a product too so you will have to judge for yourself if you trust in what they say. For myself, I do.

Now, how all of this applies to Festool and their SYS-AIR products I can't say. As far as I can tell Festool doesn't provide any independently verified tests to support the filtration claims. Festool also make clear the SYS-AIR is not intended for medical use, allergies, viruses etc. and make no claims to its effectiveness in those regards. It's meant to remove fine dust from a shop or on-site workspace, not to scrub a home clean of viruses, pollen etc. I have no problem with that, it's exactly what I want for a shop. Perhaps they aren't required to provide 3rd Party verification but that is purely speculation on my part.

In any case, if you read the HEPA article below you might find yourself wondering if Festool's HEPA SYS-AIR is as effective as they claim or is it a HEPA-like filter that removes fine particulate, just not at true HEPA levels? I personally don't know but I think it's an extremely valid question to ask, especially for a nearly $1k product being marketed as a HEPA filter that you're trusting your health to. I realize not everyone wants, needs, or cares about that last nth degree of filtration and that's fine, but it would be nice if Festool provided independent verification to back up their claims so the the consumer knows where their filter sits on the sliding scale that is HEPA filtration ratings.

IQAir HEPA