Who has sold their table saw and gone to a Festool TS?

[BillG]

I am doing some horse trading with a relative, and getting rid of my old TS 55 in exchange for some tools he owns that I want.  I plan to replace it with a TS 75.  In looking at some of the specs (not to mention some promotional information) it occurred to me that this thing cuts to the same depth as my table saw, or close enough as it doesn't matter.  THEN, I got to thinking, I could sell my table saw, which is a European combo machine, replace it with a jointer/planer combo, and perhaps live happily ever after.  I probably would not contemplate this if I were making tons of cabinets, but I do mostly turning, with some custom furniture thrown in to keep things interesting.  I've got the Kapex already, and I have a Min Max MM 20" bandsaw for rough ripping of rough lumber if it comes to that.  The TS 75 would probably see most of its duty on sheet goods and occasionally some dimensional lumber. 

I would like to hear from some of you here if you have done this.  Is it feasible, or am I nuts to start thinking in this direction? 

 

[Kev]

I'm a fair way from being set up the way I want to be, but my "end state" will be having a TS75 in a CMS module for "table saw like" applications. I currently have a TS55 for track and MFT use, so the TS75 will be for bigger cuts or for the CMS depending on requirements.

I can't speak from practical experience on how well this will work for me.

 

[nydesign]

I have a TS75 and an ATF55. I replaced an older large table saw with a smaller portable contractor saw.
There are times I use the contractor saw quite a bit, mostly for trimming thinner parts, door frames and such.
If you get rid of your saw I think there will be times you will wish you had one.

 

[VictorL]

I do like TS-55, and use it a lot. I do like TS-75, and don't use it often. I will keep my table saw (Bosch contractor saw). There are many, many applications where table saw is more useful than track saw. I do use band saw, and I do like my PS-300 jig saw.  Do I want to rid off from any of them? Nope...
I might sell my table saw but ONLY when I get CMS module for  TS-75. (This means never)...

VictorL

 

[ccarrolladams]

In 1996 I sold a large and successful cabinet making shop only because my career as a movie executive did not leave me spare time for my side venture. With that shop I sold all my large cabinet saws. In early 2005 I bought a decent contractor's 1.5hp 10" saw for my condo. Then in January 2006, realizing in my condo I had no room for a proper cabinet table saw, I bought a TS55, a CT22 and several rails. I never looked back, but I also did not give up my contractors table saw for all the lumber which is part of cabinets. I know a TS55 could do that, but to me it is easier to do so with a small table saw if one is available.

If I were still just making a few cabinets I would not need a big table saw. Personally I would want both a jointer and a thickness planer. I have tried combos, but to me they are a royal PIA. In the real world you make a pass over the jointer and then run the other side of the same piece on the planer. It does not work to run a batch of pieces on the jointer, then re-configure it to use it as the planer. While waiting the lumber tends to warp.

 

[davee]

I recently moved between states and had a shop in both locations.  At one point in the move, my table saw and other floor power tools were in the new state shop.  I still made cabinets, door, drawers, etc. in my old shop using just Festool minimums (MFT, TS55, RO150, Trion, etc.).  I am now back consolidated into a single shop with table saw.  I go to the table saw frequently for ripping face frames, etc.  However, all of my sheet good work is done on the MFT with the TS55.  If I had to pick it would be the plunge saw, but having both is certainly an advantage for me.

 

[andvari]

I have a TS75 and an ATF55. I replaced an older large table saw with a smaller portable contractor saw.
There are times I use the contractor saw quite a bit, mostly for trimming thinner parts, door frames and such.
If you get rid of your saw I think there will be times you will wish you had one.

This is what I have done also, although I haven't needed the TS75 yet. Cutting down sheet goods on a table saw is horribly space intensive so I save a lot of space with this setup.

Eventually the space savings is going to let me purchase a bandsaw and a planer/joiner.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Get yourself the DW745, throw the blade and fence in the trash. Buy a Forrest blade of choice, ZCI, and a Rousseau Table Saw Stand with outfeed.  If you spend the necessary
time you can tune it up as nice as the saw your selling. I move mine around daily and it hasnt gone out in over three years, when checked with a Starrett Combo Square. That combined with a TS 75 is the best portable set up you can get. That set up will cost you about a grand, but folds up to nothing, thanks Eric

 

[fritter63]

or close enough as it doesn't matter. 

My Unisaw cuts to a max depth of 3 1/8", the TS75  will only go to 2.95" (and think that assumes no track in the way?). This is important to me because when making guitar necks, you start with a 3" blank and must cut that 3" thickness on a 15 degree angle (you then flip that cutoff around and glue it back on to make the neck with the angled headstock and have lots of glue surface). The only way to do this is on a table saw with a homebuilt angle jig.

So for me, would be a problem unless:

1) make up a bunch of neck blanks, more than I'll ever need, before I sell the saw
2) realize that there is enough slop waste on this procedure that I could start with a narrower blank (need a narrower headstock then too)
3) figure out how to use Domino's to make that joint and therefore cuts that could be made with a chop saw
4) use a handsaw to cut through the last little bit and hand plane it flat
5) admit to myself that I may never build another guitar....

anyway the point is, make sure you think of all those outlier situations first!

 

[tjbier]

I can't scribe plywood and stiles with a TS so I gots to keep em both.

 

[Kev]

or close enough as it doesn't matter. 

My Unisaw cuts to a max depth of 3 1/8", the TS75  will only go to 2.95" (and think that assumes no track in the way?). This is important to me because when making guitar necks, you start with a 3" blank and must cut that 3" thickness on a 15 degree angle (you then flip that cutoff around and glue it back on to make the neck with the angled headstock and have lots of glue surface). The only way to do this is on a table saw with a homebuilt angle jig.

So for me, would be a problem unless:

1) make up a bunch of neck blanks, more than I'll ever need, before I sell the saw
2) realize that there is enough slop waste on this procedure that I could start with a narrower blank (need a narrower headstock then too)
3) figure out how to use Domino's to make that joint and therefore cuts that could be made with a chop saw
4) use a handsaw to cut through the last little bit and hand plane it flat
5) admit to myself that I may never build another guitar....

anyway the point is, make sure you think of all those outlier situations first!

I'm not visualing this very well, but couldn't you do all of this on a bandsaw?

Kev

 

[fritter63]

I'm not visualing this very well, but couldn't you do all of this on a bandsaw?

Kev

The cut becomes an end grain glue joint... you want it flat.....

Yes you can, but not as fast... (the cumpiano book has you cut it with a hand saw then block plane it, but my approach is mucho faster)

 

[sheeschen]

I'm in a similar situation - I've got a combo with sliding table saw (Minimax 300 Smart) as well as an MFT and ATF55 (and other Festools).  I overbought when I started woodworking (had just taken an intro woodworking class, and then got a big bonus at work - treated myself to stuff way over my head).  I'm finally coming back to all that fancy stuff in the garage  (years later - work and other stuff kept me away) and wondering if it's right for me.

The combo takes up a lot of real estate, and I just have a 5.5' slider.  My current project, before I tackle making my kitchen cabinets, is to build some cabinets for the garage (akin to the Chaos Theory stuff).  I decided to put Festool to the test and see if it can make the sliding tablesaw become a distant memory.  It's working ok, but it's not as slick as the slider with the multiple stops on the outrigger fence.  It was great to just have the full sheet of plywood in one place and do the long cuts with the Festool tracks rather than having to flip the piece over/turn it around in preparation for the next cut, but it's much slower.  Timewise, the slider would have been a lot faster.  It also would have been more easily accurate, but that's probably just me being rusty (one piece was just a skosh off).  I know with more time and experience I'd speed up using the tracks to break down the plywood, but I still don't expect it to be as fast as the slider.  I'll finish my rolling systainer using just the Festool, but the rest of the cabinets are going to be done on the slider.  The slider has also been great for lots of long, repeated rips that I've had to do for my exterior and interior trim.

But that's me and my future workload.  When I finish all the cabinets, I'll probably revisit the question.  I think no matter what happens, though, I'll keep some form of tablesaw around.

i don't know if it's an issue with your combo, but mine's not easy to move - it's a bit of a process to get it in place for work.  I don't have enough room to leave it in the best spot, either, so that's part of what I'm struggling with.  I've realized while thinking about it, though, that a jointer/planer would need to occupy about the same spot with similar mobility/occupying space issues.  It just wouldn't have the slider space to deal with.

I guess this is a long-winded way of saying - you're not nuts.  I don't have an answer for you, though, but hopefully some of my thoughts help you.

 

[hhh]

I realize this is the festool owner’s group, but please only drink one glass of kool-aid …  there have been so many threads on the TS55/MFT replacing a tablesaw....  As i have always recommended in these cases, just unplug your ts for a project or two and see what happens...   if you don't need it, great...  but, i have yet to find anyone that does this and then decides the ts is fully replaced by ft...

 

[jacko9]

Not me, I sold my European Inca Table saw and bought a Powermatic 66 with a sliding table and couldn't be happier.  I appreciate all of my Festool tools but, giving up my Table saw and Jointer, Planer, Band Saw, Shaper, etc, is not in my future.

Jack

 

[Jeramy]

I can't make a true comparison as I've never owned a 'proper' table saw.  I have limited space so the multi-tasking MFT/3 with TS 75 was my first choice and has covered just about everything I've needed.  I've cut down 8' x 4' ply sheets, hardwood lumber, all the way down to cutting small pieces as small as 1 inch x 1 inch square.  You might want to re-think the trading of your TS 55 - I went TS 75 due to my first project needing the extra cutting depth over the TS 55.  However I'm thinking about adding a TS 55 as the dust collection and offcut-side splinter guard are more effective than with the TS 75 when cutting thinner materials.  I have the parallel guides, Qwas dogs, various length rails, and I've never found myself in a position of wishing for a full size table saw.  For full disclosure, I do have a MicroMark model-making table saw but I've only used this when I've needed to cut real small pieces to use as inlay. 

 

[HowardH]

I also tried it for awhile - soid the Laguna TS and relied solely on my TS75 and I really missed having the table saw.  I haven't pulled out my TS75 since getting my Hammer K3.  Festool does a lot of things extremely well but certain things are really best done on a table saw i.e. ripping thin pieces accurately and consistently.  It also goes through 8/4 hardwoods a lot easier than the TS75 does.  I would hope so at 4hp!  The other posters have good advice about trying it for awhile before you make an final decision you may live to regret. 

 

[sancho57]

I havent used my table saw but a few times since I got my TS55. So Im considering selling my contractors saw and picking up a small portable saw. As for my jointer. I havent used it very much either. So Im considering getting rid of it and picking up a festool 850 planer , get the sattachment and use it as a small bench jointer.

 

[MrToolJunkie]

I have been wrestling with this concept for quite awhile.  I have now made several projects without using my cabinet saw nd it has not been turned on in over a year -- in fact it is currently so stacked high with workshop crap it would take me longer to clean it off and organize things to make a cut than just about any other method.  I have a well-tuned bandsaw and with a carbide blade, it makes very, very accurate rip cuts in thick wood as well as narrow rips that are dead-on.  The cuts I can get of the bandsaw are very smooth and only need a tiny bit of touch up either on the jointer or a little sanding.  For me the bandsaw is the main stationary power tool in my shop followed by my J/P combination.  While using mostly Festool may not be the speediest method, it does work surprisingly well and the cuts are very accurate.  I do love the parallel guides for both wide and narrow repetitive rips too.

My cabinet saw takes up a ton of floor space, even sitting idle with the outfeed table folded down, and I would love to reclaim that space.  I also think that my overal efficiency would improve too (there is something to be said about organization and not tripping over tools).  BUT, I am already invested in it and so it does not cost me anything other than taking up space and it would be much costlier to replace than what I paid for it new several years ago.  OTHO I could sell it and put the money toward other goodies.

I have a few more projects planned and I think that if these go well tablesawless then I will probably move to getting rid of the cabinet saw.  If I find I need to make some cuts with it, then I will probably hold on to it and maybe consider shortening the rails to lessen the footprint.  It is a journey to learn to do things differently than what I was taught, but it is also fun to look for news ways of doing things and to try a new approach.  That is also one of the great things about woodworking -- there are a lot of ways to get from points A-Z and there is no one right answer.

Let us know what you ultimately decide.

Scot

 

[BillG]

Thanks for all the well thought out replies.  I am just beginning to think about this.  I realize there can be a downside, which is why I am asking for other's experience.  I don't know about drinking any kool aid.  :  I've owned the TS 55 longer than the combo machine.  I'm just contemplating the way my business is changing.

Thick wood is easily handled by my bandsaw.  I've got 15 3/4" under the guides, and with a sharp blade, it will do all of that without bogging down, even in wet wood, which is what it sees most of the time.  With a carbide blade, it gives glue joint smoothness, although even then boards get run through the planer on edge for final dimensioning.  The same goes for the table saw.  Boards are planed either in the jointer/planer, or with a hand plane. 

I have a tiny shop, and it is all organized around a monster machine, which does not get the use it might.  This would not be the first time I sold a machine I thought I would keep forever.  I bought my TS 55 a year before I bought the Mini Max.  My thinking on processing sheet goods lagged behind far enough that if it had been faster, I might not have ever purchased the MM combo.  But that was years ago.  Since then my business has changed to where I build very few cabinets anymore, and few and far between they are to boot. 

I am going to read through this thread a few more times, and do some thinking, as well as researching back to what I have been using my table saw for.  Maybe I will keep it, maybe I will replace it with something smaller, and maybe I will just get rid of it completely and go round forever.  But I doubt that last one will every happen.