Who is and Who isn't

[Forrest Anderson]

Mmm, I think the reviewers we have on the FOG do more than write quick praising reviews.
Brice, Jerry, John Lucas, and Forrest Henderson, who else do I forgot ?
reviewing,  Is there any one who missed to understand they were commissionned in some form to do it ?

Whilst it's very nice to be mentioned (sort of!) in such esteemed company, I must say that I've never written a Festool review.

Instead, I'm the guy who hunts out reviews and articles on the Internet and maintains the Consolidated List of Festool Links in the FOG Reference Library.

Forrest Anderson

 

[sw1211]

The ultimate decision to buy a tool rests with the individual consumer, how you get to that point is your business.  These reviewers just add another valuable piece of info that ultimately you can decide how to value.  Where they get their tools, who sponsors them, who cares.    They're working with wood, a bit of common sense should guide you to whether or not what they claim in their reviews makes sense.  Thanks for all your efforts reviewers, keep up the good work.

 

[Daviddubya]

I am going to take a devil's advocate position now.  If there is a perceived need for a disclaimer on reviews of tools, then what about posts that are not a review, but simply a users statement or opinion based on their experience with a tool?  If that user has received a tool or a trip, or money from Festool (in this case), and subsequently posts a comment about a tool, is that post then suspect?  I think NOT...

Regarding the manuals that some members here produce, it would surprise me if those folks had NOT been paid (real money, not tools) to produce those manuals.  Do they need a disclaimer too?

Devil's advocate position now turned off!

I think the integrity of the people involved speaks for itself.  And I think this fuss about the need for disclaimers is blown out of proportion.  Our experience with the people that some now say need to include disclaimers is all good, from what I have seen.  Why not leave well enough alone?  I have nothing against disclaimers, if the author wants to include one.  But the notion that a disclaimer is required in order to maintain one's integrity is pure bunk, IMHO.

 

[Qwas]

Sorry David but I have to disagree.

First, we don't know who the future reviewers are going to be. Perhaps we can trust our existing reviewers. But what happens when someone new pops in and starts doing reviews?

Second, if the forum believes that bias plays no role, then why are we marking dealers and Festool employees in green typeface??? Should we allow dealers and employees run around the forum "unmarked"?

Third, I'm going to use an example with Eiji, our May contest winner of a new MFK-700. What if he does a review on the tool? Of course I expect him to be thrilled with the tool and he will say it is fantastic. But would Eiji feels the same way and write the same review if had to pay for that tool? Maybe, maybe not.

Last point, you say free tools doesn't effect bias. But yet we give away free tools for our contests. The argument was a free tool will make more people post, and I think it did. So a free tool will make people work more and post more, but it won't effect their bias??? I find it conflicting.

 

[colinw]

Again this topic is going to be controversial, IMHO adding a disclaimer to your review increases your creditability as a reviewer showing you have nothing to hide, and before anyone takes that remark in any other way I am NOT saying anyone is hiding anything, I Think the reviewers here do a fine job  and as stated  before probably were underpaid in their time and labor.
  But a simple statement like the tool reviewed was supplied by Festool would save any of these arguments, if this had been done in the beginning the reviewer would not have to try and defend himself now, and if they had  this thread would not be here.  It's called " covering your ass "  Full Disclosure is always a good choice if not for any other reason than to keep the status quo no one can say you never told them.

Colin.   

 

[Frank Pellow]

...
 But the notion that a disclaimer is required in order to maintain one's integrity is pure bunk, IMHO.

It is not pure bunk at all.  Rather, it is common professional practice. 

 

[poto]

My reasoning is they receive a free tool and do the review. Festool sends another free tool and expects a good review. Pretty soon the reviewer knows the game and understands to keep receiving free tools he has to do a great review. And we all want new tools, especially free.

My other reason and concern is the price of the tools means a lot. Using your example with the Trion jigsaw, the price is an important part of the tool. The Trion can be a great jigsaw but is it's price within reason? ( I own one and I think it is.) But I think a reviewer who gets it for free will tend to skim over the price versus value issue.

What about when someone receives 5 free tools from different companies to compare? Do we think that the reviewer will give the best review to the "free-est" tool?

I think we're making a mountain out of a molehill. Have you benefited from one of Brice's reviews? I sure have. Do I think his review was altered by the fact that he got to keep the tool? No, and I don't care in any case. It's what I've learned from the review that will help me either decide whether to buy the tool, or how to use the tool better that matters. I think Brice's review of the MFS system was fabulous, and clearly in Festool's favor. But I'm still not gonna buy one. I've learned - from the review - that I don't need one! Want? Sure. Need? No.

I think we're mixing up common sense and legal liability. This is an informal woodworking forum, for crying out loud!

 

[dirtydeeds]

brice's ammended comment (regarding stating the povenance of the tools) is enough for me. it doesnt take away from what he's said

if hes anything like me (except english, mad and gobby)  ;D    he will say what he means regardless

if you make a living USING the tools rather than making a living REVIEWING tools (like magazine editors do)

you tell it as it is  (granted, we ALL have a bias) which revolves around the way we work

i try tools and if (after ive used them) find them lacking in a certain department, i say so

yes id LOVE to have the profile brice has with festool usa that gives them the confidence to use him as an ambassador, but i dont, so what

what everybody else should ask themselves is how honest is the comment

a man who uses tools to EARN A LIVING

or

a magazine editor who wants advertising revenue

 

[sw1211]

Not to mention, if it's a Festool being reviewed that you're interested in, buy it, try it and if you don't like it send it back within 30 days...what more can you ask for.

 

[colotimber]

I along with countless others have benefited from reviews from all of our FOG members and I openly and gratefully thank them all for their input it is a huge undertaking.  To that point, the recent review by Per on the MFT for the finish carpenter, prompted me to buy an MFT3 solely based on the review and the outlined benefits to me and my crew.  If Per had disclosed that he had been given an MFT3 to demonstrate and with which to do the review, by Festool that would not have influenced my tool buying choice.  Though if he had been given the tool, as Frank said very well, "it is common professional practice" to disclose that additional piece of information. 
I would also like to thank everyone here that has posted for keeping this discussion just that, a discussion of each of our opinions with out making the process personal, all as professionals respect for each other is key.

Dan

 

[Bill Wyko]

IMHO it would be in the best interest to give an honest review of a tool given to someone to test. If a company gives a person a tool to evaluate, I would think they're looking for an honest review. Slinging BS doesn't solve an issue and could make a bad feature a problem on a grand scale. Granted the recipient may want to lean in favor of the tool supplier they can still give a fair review in a respectful way and disclose any issues they may feel need to be addressed. What would impress me would be a tool company that addressed the issues in question. With Festool I would have to say they REALLY listen to the wood workers that use their tools. They seem to have created tools that have had a tremondous amount of thought put into them. Not only in their use individually but the use of them as a whole system as well. Add that to the storage and you've got proof of a company that is very much in touch with the end users. BTW I am not sponsored by any tool companies. (Jet did send me a cool hat this week though ;D) and Incra has featured a lot of my work on their web site. I am always open to a sponsorship though ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[Warrior]

"?

Third, I'm going to use an example with Eiji, our May contest winner of a new MFK-700. What if he does a review on the tool? Of course I expect him to be thrilled with the tool and he will say it is fantastic. But would Eiji feels the same way and write the same review if had to pay for that tool? Maybe, maybe not.

Dude that is not cool and I have to disagree with that. I feel I have payed at least twice the value of the MFK in the time I spent on my thread. I will review the MFK and will be my usual disaggreeable self err aggreeable. I think that since I spent so much of my time to win this baby it better be fantastic. If it is not fantastic in anyway I will be the first one letting it be known.

Eiji

 

[Qwas]

Eiji, I'm sorry. That was a bad example. I agree that you put alot of work into that project and many hours working on that thread. I whole heartily agree you deserve the MFK-700.

I was trying to explain that someone given a free tool does not have the same vested interest as someone who buys it. I thought of the contest, and without thinking, used it as my example.

Please accept my apology. I meant no harm to you, and I have enjoyed your posts and have much respect for you and your work.

 

[Warrior]

Accepted.

I think we have to extend a level of respect towards the author of a review regardless of wether they are paid or not. I think most of us can spot a BS review pretty quickly. If the reviews here on the FOG start to lean that way it will be our own fault for not calling the author on it. I think we have, at least I have requested that some members remove their green glasses and be a bit more authentic. If we on the FOG won't eat it, they won't serve it.

Eiji

 

[graphex]

Dear Festool or any other tool company or entity,

If you would please give me some free tools, I promise I will review them very positively. In fact, if you could just give me a tool along with the review you would like me to say I wrote, that is fine too. ;D Actually, that would probably be best because I failed english (my teacher didn't like emoticons  :-[) and I am not good at writing things about stuff, so please send the reviews you want me to have written along with the tools. Even if it is in a language I don't speak. ???

I've got lots of IP addresses and can forge plenty of email accounts and am happy to be your puppet prostitute public relations representative. Isn't great how people on the internet believe everything they read? : We can totally take advantage of that LOL. Nobody takes the time to try to figure out if I am someone real or just a robot 'cause I have a picture right there and if they see a picture, I must be a real person huh?

This will be great, we can take over people's views of the entire tool industry just like we did with the video game industry. That worked out great for GameSpot.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Dear Festool or any other tool company or entity,

If you would please give me some free tools, I promise I will review them very positively. In fact, if you could just give me a tool along with the review you would like me to say I wrote, that is fine too. ;D Actually, that would probably be best because I failed english (my teacher didn't like emoticons  :-[) and I am not good at writing things about stuff, so please send the reviews you want me to have written along with the tools. Even if it is in a language I don't speak. ???

I've got lots of IP addresses and can forge plenty of email accounts and am happy to be your puppet prostitute public relations representative. Isn't great how people on the internet believe everything they read? : We can totally take advantage of that LOL. Nobody takes the time to try to figure out if I am someone real or just a robot 'cause I have a picture right there and if they see a picture, I must be a real person huh?

This will be great, we can take over people's views of the entire tool industry just like we did with the video game industry. That worked out great for GameSpot.

"My what a long nose you have."

 

[graphex]

"My what a long nose you have."

Yeah, I can't find the emoticon for that.

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[iggy07]

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[chrisrosenb]

When I first started buying Festool tools & found this forum, I believed the information I gathered here was an honest assement of  Festool tools. Now it apears that there are several menbers recieving free tools & trips from Festool to push Festool tools. I can no longer rely on the information here being an honest assement of Festool tools.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Morning,
This topic has been the cause of much offline communication, sometimes rather challenging.  Several members have written to me asking to know who receives free tools from Festool.  One person has asked to have his account canceled specifically because of this issue.

It is important for everyone to know that Festool does not share information about this with me.  The Festool Owners Group is independent of Festool.  In other words, using the title of this discussion, I don't know "who is and who isn't."  Even more, I try to stay neutral and independent on these issues.

If you are concerned about this, please post your comments here in this discussion, rather than writing to me offline.

Stay in touch,
Matthew