Why is the Angle stop FS-WA so much cheaper than the TSO GRS-16 PE

[cjfiore88]

Does anyone have any idea why the Festool Angle stop FS-WA is so much cheaper than the GRS-16 PE? The GRS-16 goes for $180, and the Festool branded one can be had for as low as 102 Euros (~121 USD) if you can import it. I know TSO licenses the design to Festool, but I would have expected that would translate to a higher price since Festool would stack their markup on top of it.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Only theorising here, but Festool is an infinitely bigger company than TSO so their sales volume for this item is a lot bigger than TSO would accomplish on its own. The whole deal with Festool will probably make them more money than they would have ever made on their own, so I guess Festool negotiated a certain price point with them.

 

[mino]

I would be surprised if Festool agreed to a lower price-cap.

What you see is a some online shops are selling at almost-wholesale prices while the GRS price is retail-only basically.

This combined with the fact Festool likely employs a more efficient manufacturing - geared more for mass production while TSO is still in the low-volume territory and did not adjust prices since release much.

IMO what TSO should do is have Festool make the GRS for them en-masse also for the US market, so they can focus on the other stuff they produce and improve stock levels.

Something tells me the production line Festool setup for these has several times the output TSO folks can manage (today).

 

[RustE]

TSO licensed the design and Festool is manufacturing it. I’d take a guess that Festool can get lower per-unit manufacturing costs than TSO. Basically, what’s posted above.

 

[Coen]

If the GRS licensing is so good for both parties they should doe the same with the Parallel Guide system, hehe

 

[Cheese]

If the GRS licensing is so good for both parties they should doe the same with the Parallel Guide system, hehe

Now that may be too bitter of a pill for Festool to swallow.  [big grin]

For the square, Festool never had an offering in the first place so it was win-win.

Not so much with the parallel guides. BTW...I have the TSO system and it is really slick.  [cool]

 

[blaszcsj]

[member=61691]TSO_Products[/member] addressed this a while back when it came out. I believe festool makes the aluminum bit and buys the clasp from tso and their unit price is likely lower due to larger lot quantities. Reply 26

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/best-rail-square-that-has-a-systainer-option/msg608643/#msg608643

 

[mino]

For the square, Festool never had an offering in the first place so it was win-win.

Not so much with the parallel guides. BTW...I have the TSO system and it is really slick.  [cool]

IMO these offerings are really complementary as the Festool ones work a bit differently.

So TSO version is not really a universal "upgrade" to the Festool PGs.

I would say that Festool made the right choice to accept the inclusion of the mounting holes for the TSO PGs while at same offering only the square. TSO is a value-add for Festool expanding their market reach. I would not be surprise if Festool considered to purchase them one they get more established.

Even if some products may overlap, I do not see a point of tension here. Hence my comment it would make sense for TSO to approach Festool for also US-market squares production so they can lower the entry price.

This is how it works in Germany for mid-size companies. Festool makes components/stuff for Fein and Fein makes components/stuff for Festool etc. Allowing both to be able to have a broader portfolio they could otherwise support standalone. Even Bosch chips-in with their Maffel collaboration here and there. Win-Win-Win if approached properly for both companies and the customer.

 

[squall_line]

Even if some products may overlap, I do not see a point of tension here. Hence my comment it would make sense for TSO to approach Festool for also US-market squares production so they can lower the entry price.

This is how it works in Germany for mid-size companies. Festool makes components/stuff for Fein and Fein makes components/stuff for Festool etc. Allowing both to be able to have a broader portfolio they could otherwise support standalone. Even Bosch chips-in with their Maffel collaboration here and there. Win-Win-Win if approached properly for both companies and the customer.

Read the linked thread above; TSO already has unlicensed patent-infringing competition in North America and they specifically discuss the reasoning for partnering with Festool in EU but not NA.

 

[mino]

Read the linked thread above; TSO already has unlicensed patent-infringing competition in North America and they specifically discuss the reasoning for partnering with Festool in EU but not NA.

I am well aware.

My point still stands that the GRS is a mature product by now and it would serve TSO well to leverage Festool scale for GRS aluminum component production even for their US market and focus their manufacturing on more-specialist products.

I did NOT advocate for TSO to abandon the GRS as a TSO product. But to instead use a manufacturing collab with Festool to be able to get the scale needed -while- being able to reduce their retail prices AND retaining adequate profit at same AND freeing manuf. capacity for the more unique/specific products.

I wrote that as a person who knows a thing or two about business economics and the difference between low/mid-volume production of someone like TSO and high-volume-yet-flexible production of someone like Festool and pure high-volume of someone like Makita. It is simply my opinion that TSO should leverage the Festool production being now setup and tooled up by subcontracting them on the alu piece.

No way to know if Festool would be remotely interested. But I believe it would be a wise move by both parties as there are synergies to be made. You are free to dis agree and either companies are free to ignore or prioritize otherwise.

 

[Coen]

If Festool would license-build the PG system, they can sell a 508, 762 and 1270 version  [tongue]

And also do away with the inches on the guides.  [tongue]

Local TSO seller btw again sold out on his stock of TSO PG. Haven't seen him having the adapter in stock at all. I was in doubt between ordering the PG now or waiting for the adapter to be back in stock. Now neither is in stock  :-X