Why is the Kapex UG Miter Station so expensive?

[Mark]

Yeah, I know why. Its Festool... but when I compare it to the Bosch T4B gravity rise stand at ~$309 where is the $500 difference? The Bosch almost seems better engineered as the extensions stow onboard the stand as well as the gravity rise feature which is patented so Festool would have to come up with some other trick.

- Engineering?
- Customs and duty?
- Materials and overall quality = Germany vs. China?

I move my Kapex around a lot but often times it sits on some horrid contrapion sitting on a sawhorse or something an also not on level ground. I'd love to get the UG but the price is just a choker. The Bosch seems more reasonable and what the UG should be nearer to... Why?

 

[Kev]

Price for the cart and wings has just dropped to $699 in Oz - over a $200 cut. Shame I already have one  [sad]

I don't know how well the Bosch cart works, but I'm very happy with the UG+KAPEX. I know I pay a premium for the Festool gear, but I do forget the cost fairly quickly after I start using it.

The laws of diminishing returns come into play when you by premium or exclusive products ... there's fewer consumers to spread development costs with and the manufacturing economies differ in relation to production volumes. Don't blame taxes.

Yes, China is cheaper for manufacturing - people are very cheap there, but that's rapidly changing.

 

[skids]

Yeah, I know why. Its Festool... but when I compare it to the Bosch T4B gravity rise stand at ~$309 where is the $500 difference? The Bosch almost seems better engineered as the extensions stow onboard the stand as well as the gravity rise feature which is patented so Festool would have to come up with some other trick.

- Engineering?
- Customs and duty?
- Materials and overall quality = Germany vs. China?

I move my Kapex around a lot but often times it sits on some horrid contrapion sitting on a sawhorse or something an also not on level ground. I'd love to get the UG but the price is just a choker. The Bosch seems more reasonable and what the UG should be nearer to... Why?

That bosch stand is very heavy if I recall from when I looked at it. I like the UG for the simple reason it folds up nicely with the saw. Eventually I may get it and then use my existing custom made wings with some Fastcap upper hands. I am not crazy about the Festool wings for anything other than portability.

From a cost perspective though it probably comes down to where each of these stands is manufactured and economies of scale. Bosch may have the edge there.

 

[Holzhacker]

Yes it is outrageously expensive compared to other makes on the market. I avoided buying one for a long time but then bit the bullet. One could go on and on about why it cost so much more. Its Festool, manufacturing not in China, they know we'll pay, customs, small volume, etc.
A friend has the Bosch stand you are most likely taking about. I never liked that stand. It rolls really nice and easy. Beyond that, its big, cumbersome heavy and a PIA. It's very impressive to look at. It's also one of those things that makes people think they are getting great value for their money because there's so much of it.
The kapex ug obviously isn't much to look at. Very minimalist, not all that much there. I think though that's one of its great strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't look like something that should cost or is worth that kind of money. On the other hand, it's engineering and simplicity are what make it a great tool. It's easy to load, deal with and shove in a corner. Granted it could use some improvements in the next version that have been discussed on the FOG.
Is it worth it? Depends, you want easy and comfortable or big PIA lumbering giant.

 

[Wertzy]

I've had the bosch gravity rise stand with a 12" bosch on it for 5 years.  Bought the UG stand for the Kapex 2 years ago and haven't used the Bosch since.  The Bosch is big and cumbersome, i can get it into my truck by myself but have to prop it up and then shove in.  The UG folds apart and I can lift it no problem.  FOr smaller jobs I have no problem using the Kapex and UG now, where before I would take just an unmounted saw and put it on the ground because I didn't want to lug the gravity rise around.

 

[jonathan-m]

I just think it's their pricing strategy or policy. All Festool accessories are expensive for what they seemingly are. And it's probably as easy as "because they can". Even if they upped the price some more, they'd still sell.

Why does for example an iphone cost the amount it does, when it's well known by now what those devices actually cost to manufacture?

 

[RonMiller]

I've been using mine for about a few days and really like it. For me it's an excellent height, esp when folded up. Rolls easily, can pick it right up and put it in the van, etc. I am glad tho that I bought it before the small price increase. I do alot of small jobs and it's how I make my living so it's the best choice for me. For others, perhaps not.

 

[Birdhunter]

I put off buying a Kapex largely because of the cost and also because I already had a very nice compound miter saw.

I thought about building a stand for the Kapex until I played with the Kapex UG stand at my local dealer. I was very surprised how sturdy the stand felt. No wobble even with pressure.

My shop is tight and I need to be able to move equipment around and the UG stand is perfect.

The instructions are far from adequate, but I managed to get it together.

I think the price is steep, but that's Festool.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I just think it's their pricing strategy or policy. All Festool accessories are expensive for what they seemingly are. And it's probably as easy as "because they can". Even if they upped the price some more, they'd still sell.

Why does for example an iphone cost the amount it does, when it's well known by now what those devices actually cost to manufacture?

Well, there is an unbelievable amount of money spend to develop the technology that goes into a smart phone, and a short window to recoup those costs.  I'm not sure that isn't the case with the UG stand.... 

 

[3PedalMINI]

I have the Bosch Gravity rise stand for the Kapex and I Hate it. The thing is so miserably heavy i dont feel like moving it around, my kapex might as well be bolted to the ground. It is cool how it rises and you  definitely feel like you get what you pay for but thats only until you have to lug it around. I hate the support arms that come out, realy flimsy and are not accurate at all. When i was at wood craft a few weeks ago they had the UG stand on display and it was so light and maneuverable, and well built. I Very rarely take my kapex out of the shop but when i need todo some custom molding work at a clients home i dread having to take it. For the few times i take it out its not worth the investment, but if i was a contractor that was hauling the kapex around everyday I would splurge for the UG stand, the Gravity rise stand is just to heavy and bulky.  [smile]

 

[Mark]

Thanks for the feedback on the Bosch as I'm very tempted to get it but now have second thoughts. I spend almost as much time juggling crap as I do trying to get any work done in my garage. Moving cars in and out, juggling piles of lumber from here to there and back and then trying to get accurate cuts on my Kapex while its jiggling on top of my tool chest. Defeats the purpose in many ways.

I'm working on my house but the garage is at street level and the house is up off the road so I'm contantly moving tools up and down the bloody stairs. The CT22 is the worst as I really can't bear to cut anything w/o dust collection.

But as they say, "This is first world issues" ... and given the caliber of what I've manage to invest in I've got nothing to complain about!

Maybe next birthday or Christmas or local Festool sale though at best it will be 10%.

Thanks.

 

[JPF Woodworking]

Not sure who to credit this quote but this discussion (and Festool tools in general)  reminds me of this philosophy:

You Get What You Pay for……

“It’s unwise to pay too much, but it’s worse to pay too little.  When you pay too much, you lose a little money- - -that is all.  When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.  The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can’t be done.  If you deal with the lowest price, it is well to add something for the risk you run.  And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.”

 

[skids]

Not sure who to credit this quote but this discussion (and Festool tools in general)  reminds me of this philosophy:

You Get What You Pay for……

“It’s unwise to pay too much, but it’s worse to pay too little.  When you pay too much, you lose a little money- - -that is all.  When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.  The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can’t be done.  If you deal with the lowest price, it is well to add something for the risk you run.  And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.”

So what you're telling me is I should scrap my Harbor Freight Biscuit joiner I got for $27 and get a Domino?

 

[peter halle]

Not sure who to credit this quote but this discussion (and Festool tools in general)  reminds me of this philosophy:

You Get What You Pay for……

“It’s unwise to pay too much, but it’s worse to pay too little.  When you pay too much, you lose a little money- - -that is all.  When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.  The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can’t be done.  If you deal with the lowest price, it is well to add something for the risk you run.  And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.”

So what you're telling me is I should scrap my Harbor Freight Biscuit joiner I got for $27 and get a Domino?

Yes.

 

[skids]

Not sure who to credit this quote but this discussion (and Festool tools in general)  reminds me of this philosophy:

You Get What You Pay for……

“It’s unwise to pay too much, but it’s worse to pay too little.  When you pay too much, you lose a little money- - -that is all.  When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.  The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can’t be done.  If you deal with the lowest price, it is well to add something for the risk you run.  And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.”

So what you're telling me is I should scrap my Harbor Freight Biscuit joiner I got for $27 and get a Domino?

Yes.

[thumbs up]

 

[lambeater]

just remember things that beautiful can be turned into a shrine lol

Lambeater

 

[Bob Marino]

just remember things that beautiful can be turned into a shrine lol

Lambeater

Good job! Very nice.

Bob

 

[Kev]

Lambeater normally has the green candles burning in his shrine  [wink]

 

[lambeater]

Lambeater normally has the green candles burning in his shrine  [wink]

Yep and I always only ever cut wearing a Black Jersey.

Lambeater

 

[sancho57]

Not sure who to credit this quote but this discussion (and Festool tools in general)  reminds me of this philosophy:

You Get What You Pay for……

“It’s unwise to pay too much, but it’s worse to pay too little.  When you pay too much, you lose a little money- - -that is all.  When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.  The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can’t be done.  If you deal with the lowest price, it is well to add something for the risk you run.  And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.”

So what you're telling me is I should scrap my Harbor Freight Biscuit joiner I got for $27 and get a Domino?

Yes.

depends, I you want accuracy and ease and of use and reliability.. Yes