Wide panel/plywood crosscutting: Track saw? Cordless? Rail Compatible?

[mino]

...
But, full-depth climb cutting, when properly controlled, does leave a better edge. The physics of the chip explain why.
...

I think we have a different concern. You are thinking in terms of a CNC. A Tracksaw is not a CNC, nor a slider, it has different dynamics and different strengths and different weaknesses.

For that reason I do not see a climb-cut as something of a major interest for plywood. There the anti-splinter strip on FS/2 does a pretty good job when a sharp blade is used. My concern is the even harder cases of laminated stuff - there the problem is where the blade is "existing" the material. With laminated chipboard once you have the blade "exiting" it will break out pieces of the hard laminate no matter how sharp the blade. Here a scoring cut helps as the blade is "going in" from outside to the material for both sides of the cut, allowing both sides to be perfectly clean, not only one side (that is the bottom one with a tracksaw).

From your comments I believe you should either borrow or get a used TS 55 R set with rails to get "your hands dirty" with a tracksaw and go for the more nuanced decisions after that. Even better would be getting a small project done at a shop of a friend who is fully stacked for tracksaw use. With all accessories that actually make it a practical thing. There are some things that are just hard to translate before you use it for a couple projects as experience from a TS does not (directly) translate for tracksaw use. And vice versa.

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] would be probably the best guy to consicely comment this.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

2) Is it worth getting the Festool track over the cheaper Makita track? If so, why?

In my admittedly anecdotal opinion, Yes.
I have had my personal TS55 at the cabinet shop where I work for the last 4 years. It has always performed well for me. When the guys in the solid surface department talked the foreman into buying one for them, he tried to save a few $$$ by getting them a Makita. It came as a set, with a 55" track.
From the very first cut they noticed a problem. When cutting 2 pieces to join together, there would be a gap in the middle. Somewhere around 1mm over a 30" seam.
They did come and ask me to test it, hoping it was a technique issue, since it was new to them.
I told them there really shouldn't be anything to it? but I'll try. After getting the same result, I switched to one of my blades, which are designed for cutting solid surface. (Thinking it could be blade related)
Same result again, so I threw down my FS1400 and cut it with my TS55.....perfect, glue-able joint in one shot. The conclusion was that the Makita rail had a bow of at least 1mm in it's length.
The supplier would not just replace the rail, they wanted the entire set back.
At that point, he learned his lesson and bought them a TSC55. The C wasn't really necessary for them, but it could be shared with the installers too.
In essence, the Makita tracks may or may not be so straight.

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] would be probably the best guy to consicely comment this.

Sorry, I should have read all the way to the bottom before posting.  [big grin] and it may not be concise [blink]

mino is correct. I do a lot of laminate work, and I do have some insight here. "In general" the splinter strip on the rail will do a fine job of protecting that side of the cut, even at miters.
I rarely need to worry about the off-cut side, though with a sharp blade, it comes out good too.
The back side will look the best, if you fully support it during the cut, meaning cutting into a sacrificial layer of something else below it.
As a left-handed user, I have no issue with climb-cuts.....using a router (and your head at the same time) but I would never do a climb-cut with a track saw, other than the lightest scoring skim. It is just begging for trouble. You need to press forward and down to active the plunge in the first place, then allowing that to move backward? Seems like a recipe for the thing climbing right off the track. The spring-loaded riving knife of some models can do nothing but exacerbate this issue. The newer anti-kickback models should (hopefully) shut off.
The only time I ever install the off-cut-side splinter guard, is when cutting veneer.  The downward pressure at the exit point of the cut helps keep it under control.
However, I don't do all of my cutting with a track saw in these situations either. I have access to a slider saw with a scoring blade, a beam saw (also with a scoring blade) and compression router bits.

 

[Svar]

I'm now leaning towards the TS-60 or TSV-60.

Unless you cut melamine all day long for a living, TSV-60 will be a waste of resources. More importantly, you'll regret its extra weight, bulk, and length in many cutting situations.

 

[Packard]

No one mentions Trion, which admittedly is hard to find, nor Mafell which is easy to find, but seemingly just one vendor.

By all accounts Mafell offers excellent quality and competitive features. With seemingly just one vendor, no push for them to offer discounts.  But when did you see  Festool deeply discounted?

 

[smorgasbord]

OK, so I'm pretty well set on getting the TS-60. (BTW, I did notice that at least one Makita track saw has a quick rail+3mm depth stop thingie you can engage to do a scoring pass, but 3mm might be too deep to do that as a climb).

Now, which rails?

Seem like the 1400 would be my primary sweet spot, but I could see wanting something longer as well as something shorter for ease when doing "normal" cross-cuts. An 800/1400/1900 combo seems a bit overkill, but maybe not. I could join to get something longer for those occasions.

BTW, I assume it's pretty easy to put a good quality straight edge up against your guide rail to check for straightness, although I assume the protruding portion of the rail is the key part, not the actual edge.

 

[jeh]

For solid cross cuts a lower tooth count blade.

48 & If you want to rip 4x8 panels you’ll need get connectors or go to a 2700 or 3000 rail.

Tom

You need the 3000 as the plate of the Festool saw needs to engage close to completely at the start and end of a cut. The 2700 is approximately 106” long leaving only 10” of total overhang. Some will argue it is fine, but reality is it requires a perfect start and ending since not enough of the saw base engages before or after to easily cut a straight line. The cost is difference is irrelevant if you want perfect cuts every time.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

For solid cross cuts a lower tooth count blade.

48 & If you want to rip 4x8 panels you’ll need get connectors or go to a 2700 or 3000 rail.

Tom

You need the 3000 as the plate of the Festool saw needs to engage close to completely at the start and end of a cut. The 2700 is approximately 106” long leaving only 10” of total overhang. Some will argue it is fine, but reality is it requires a perfect start and ending since not enough of the saw base engages before or after to easily cut a straight line. The cost is difference is irrelevant if you want perfect cuts every time.

[member=652]JimH2[/member] I think you are totally right on this. It's very much like the FS1400 on 48" sheet goods. It mostly works, but not really ideal either. Personally, I would bet the 2700s that get sold go to guys who are using them out of a van, where that little bit extra becomes prohibitive.
I think the ideal "minimalist yet complete" solution would be a 1400 and a 1900. The 1900 can save you in a lot of cases, so you wouldn't have to join tracks. Then, when you really need to, you really do have enough for an 8' sheet. Much easier to carry.
As you said, in a shop situation, go 3000 all the way.
Short ones are nice too. When you have way too much rail, they tend to sag on the ends, which lifts the middle. This can result in wiggles, until the saw puts some pressure on it.
I have every size, but the 2700, which you would never need with a 3000.... but we all know I also have a problem  [blink]

 

[guybo]

Hi, the2700 is just fine i have always agreed with this statement when I first read it. by Mirkohttps://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/106'-or-118'-guiderail-for-ts55/msg4390/#msg4390

 

[tjbnwi]

I have no issues with the 2700 rail for ripping 97” sheets (our sheets come 49x97 or 97x48 depending which way I want the grain to run). The lead in end needs to be placed so both plate gibs are on the rail. Placed properly you do not need to plunge into the sheet. The exit end the blade cuts clear the sheet before the front gib exits the rail.

The 3000 is easier as you do not have to be as accurate setting it. A witness mark on the 2700 solves this problem.

For cross cuts I prefer the 75” rail due to the use of TSO rail squares.

Rails I know I have at the shop-

2-16’
3-3000/2
4 2700/2
1-90” with holes
2-75”
6-1400/2
1-1400/2 with holes
8-800/2
Plus various off cuts for special lengths from rails.

At home;
1-2700
1-75”
2-1400
1-1400 with holes
2-800

Tom

 

[smorgasbord]

Don't forget that I've got a pretty nice tablesaw, so ripping panels isn't much of a problem for me. Maybe it'll change and I'll end up preferring the track saw, but for now I'm looking for accurate crosscuts in wide panels and glue-ups. Probably won't need a full 48" crosscut since I don't see anything that's anywhere near that deep in my future.

If anything, the long rail would be mostly to help straighten stock before going to the jointer. In the past I've used my jigsaw to lop off the high spots and then joint. I do admit that jointing big boards requires strength and I'm not as strong as I used to be. I just don't see really big plywood panels in my future.

What might be more interesting is experimenting with what to do at the short end. Do I want to relegate the Bosch glider to rough work and use the TS-60 with a shortish rail? The problem there is that my miter station is setup nicely with an Incra fence and drop stop, so cutting stuff to the same accurate length is easy as long as my saw is tuned (and I'm not convinced that the blade of my Bosch is inline with the knuckle slide, that's going to take me a whole day of cutting to verify and fix). In that case would I want like an FS 800, or should I go with an FSK dedicated for not-wide crosscuts?

Let me put this another way: Given I'm comfortable with my tablesaw and crosscut/angle sled, and panels (plywood, MDF) are not my main material, what two rails should I get first? I do build everything from jewelry boxes to entry doors, from kids toys to long baseboard/crown moldings, to furniture (chairs, tables, desks). It is possible that I'll redo my kitchen cabinets to replace doors with big drawers, but those will still have solid wood fronts and sides.

 

[mino]

..
what two rails should I get first?
..

these three:
set 1)
1080
1400 holy (LR 32)
1900
1 set of Makita connectors

set 2)
The Festool FS/2 set in systainer with the FS/WA adjustable square and other essential TS accessories

1080 is "go to"
1400 for LR32 + go to for longer cuts
1900 with 1080 is a 3000 replacement (when the strong Makita connectors are used and the 1400LR32 is used as a reference for straight rail joining)

With these three rails, you will always have a "suitable" one at hand for 99% of the tasks instead of needing to compromise and there is no "waste" as for precisely joining 2 rails you need a 3rd one as a reference anyway (or an engineers straight edge, more expensive than  another FS/2)

I would not go for 3000. Not before having the basic sets.

 

[smorgasbord]

Thanks - why the Makita connectors? I saw a Festool Live video where Festool had redesigned their connectors such that the two connectors used are slightly different from each other:

Also, what about subbing in the 800mm track for the 1080, or even using an FSK track for solid wood cross-cuts?

Separately, has anyone tried setting up a "track saw station" to replace a miter saw station? I don't want to angle the stock for angled cuts, I'd rather angle the guide rail. A MFT/3 setup would let me install a back fence with sliding stop and would let me pivot the guide rail up out of the way to swap stock pieces, but if I then want to use the protractor head (shown later in the video above to angle the guide), I lose the pivot out of the way feature.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Separately, has anyone tried setting up a "track saw station" to replace a miter saw station? I don't want to angle the stock for angled cuts, I'd rather angle the guide rail. A MFT/3 setup would let me install a back fence with sliding stop and would let me pivot the guide rail up out of the way to swap stock pieces, but if I then want to use the protractor head (shown later in the video above to angle the guide), I lose the pivot out of the way feature.

I have, though mine is not a hinged-rail situation. Mine is part of a 4' x 8' table that also houses 2 routers.
Mine, though I would do it a bit more deliberately if I did it over again, works with dogs.
I drilled it with the Parf-Guide system, so the stock is supported by dogs as well as the track. It cuts square and only square and has a T-track embedded for a repeatable length stop. It will cut up to 36" wide, but I mostly use it around 20". It does not replace my miter saw station, just adds to the width capabilities.
For angled cuts use a TSO products triangle (Mitr square) over a sacrificial sheet.

 

[smorgasbord]

Back to rails, turns out there's a few options of the same length.

I think I'd be looking at:
EITHER:
Festool 491499 32" Guide Rail FS 800 OR Festool 491504 42" Guide Rail FS 1080

PLUS
Festool 491503 75" Guide Rail FS 1900

And then the recommendation for:
EITHER:
Festool 491498 55" Guide Rail FS 1400 OR Festool 496939 32mm Hole Drilling Guide Rail 55" (1400mm)  OR  Festool 577043 55" Guide Rail FS2 1400

With the 1400 (and not sure which of the 3 to get), I'm thinking the 800 is just easier to handle when I don't need the extra width. And then the 1900 gets me even longer cross-cuts and the ability to join to the 1400 for any long straightenings.

It'll be interesting to see how I take to the track saw considering I mostly work with solid wood. I've always wanted a sliding table for my tablesaw, but don't have the space to handle the travel length I'd really want.

 

[jeh]

As I said there will be others who disagree and insist 2700 will work and they are ones who own the 2700. If you have not spent your money on a long rail don’t fall into the trap of saving $80. Get the 3000 and know you can drop and cut without regard for exact overhangs and saw position marks. There is no reason not to get the larger rail unless you cannot swing the cost difference or like making things harder.

 

[sancho57]

a track saw, guide rail, TSO GRS, w TSO parallel guides should do it

 

[mino]

Thanks - why the Makita connectors?
...

There are multiple threads on it. Even in the new Festool set the one "non-aligning" connector dents the rails. Plus the self-aligning connector prevents absolute accuracy - it forces the joint to be as accurate as the ends of the two rail are. Good-enough for most. But not ideal still. Plus they are more expensive.

The Makitas are both the cheapest and the (only) completely non-damaging/non-denting connectors. They also allow for the strongest joint.

I have both original Festool, new Festool and Makita. As an initial purchase the Makitas are a slam dunk over any other. Including the TSO ones. I never ever used the (older) Festool ones on FS/2 rails after some playing around with non-Festool rails. $50 wasted. Will probably cut them up for some jig in the future ...

If budget (both time* and money) is no object, for quick joints or mobile use a combination of the Festool self-aligning one and one Makita one for strength is the best. For absolute accuracy, at the cost of a bit more fiddling, Makita ones only.

*I have my Makita connectors re-threaded to take hex 2.5 mm screws as the Festool self-aligning ones.

Festool 491498 55" Guide Rail FS 1400 OR Festool 496939 32mm Hole Drilling Guide Rail 55" (1400mm)  OR  Festool 577043 55" Guide Rail FS2 1400

As mentioned, get the holy one. Even if you will not get the LR32 plate initially.

 

[Birdhunter]

Lots of good advice in these threads. My experience with making cabinets, drawers, reception stations, etc started out using a Unisaw and a circular saw and a clamp-on guide rail. As I aged, I found wrestling a sheet of 3/4” plywood across a table saw was getting very difficult and less safe. I attended a Festool event and bought a TS55, rail, Domino, two MFTs, and a Kapex. I tried connecting to rails to enable cutting the long length of a 4 by 8 sheet. Poor results so I bought the really long rail. So now, I can lay a sheet of plywood on a 1” sheet of foam and chop up any piece of sheet goods. I’ve never had a bad cut so never saw the need for a riving tool.

 

[Packard]

Lots of good advice in these threads. My experience with making cabinets, drawers, reception stations, etc started out using a Unisaw and a circular saw and a clamp-on guide rail. As I aged, I found wrestling a sheet of 3/4” plywood across a table saw was getting very difficult and less safe. I attended a Festool event and bought a TS55, rail, Domino, two MFTs, and a Kapex. I tried connecting to rails to enable cutting the long length of a 4 by 8 sheet. Poor results so I bought the really long rail. So now, I can lay a sheet of plywood on a 1” sheet of foam and chop up any piece of sheet goods. I’ve never had a bad cut so never saw the need for a riving tool.

My motivation for getting the track saw was the same.  Carrying full sheets of plywood down to my basement became too difficult (and perhaps too dangerous).  Also, cutting large sheets on the table saw is not so easy as using the track saw. 

My table saw still sees the bulk of my cutting, followed by the track saw, the radial arm saw and finally the chop saw. 

 

[smorgasbord]

Back to rails, turns out there's a few options of the same length.

I think I've settled on:
Festool 496939 55" 32mm Hole Drilling Guide Rail 1400mm
Festool 577044 75" Guide Rail FS2 1900 (might as well get the version with the hand hold and replaceable adhesive pads)
Makita joiner bars

And then I'm still wondering which of the following I should get:
Festool 491499 32" Guide Rail FS 800
Festool 491504 42" Guide Rail FS 1080
Festool 769942 Guide Rail FSK 420

The latter does work with the TS-60, giving me cross-cuts up to 420mm (16&½").

Anyone with experience on the accuracy and repeatability of the FSK? Should I just get the 800/1090 and an adjustable rail square instead? I'm assuming the movable stop on the underside aren't super accurate. Good enough for carpentry and decking, but a rail square or adjustable rail square would be more accurate, right?