Will Buying a Domino Help with glue-ups?

Peter

About TIME you showed your FACE around here giving me a HAND .

any new videos coming in need something to WATCH.

I am giving my biscuit jointer to a friend today. He will be here in about 6 HOURS.

Hes taking the TIME to drive to my house to pick some things up as Im clearing my shop and packing things up.

I havent used my biscuit joint in years . Even before I bought my domino.

At one point I even forgot I owned it b/c I havent used it in such a long TIME.

Got rid in my mini ryobi biscuit jointer yesterday along with my floor model dust collector.

[big grin]
 
farms100 said:
one question I have is are you glueing up lots of strips on edge, or 3-4 wide boards?

Cherry looks great, but is fairly soft, we have cherry flooring and it has lots of small dents from shoes, stuff being dropped on it etc.

like other said, proper wood preparation is vital. Don't overlook moisture problems, and  sticker everything

1. let wood acclimate to the shop
2. Double check your machinery set ups, fences, blades etc at 90 degrees
3. rough mill oversize then sticker. Boards that develop significant bow, twist, or cup might be reaction wood, or had drying faults
4. final mil to size
5 Dry fit and dry clamp to see what happens.
       I suggest glueing up in stages so its less stressful, glue up on a flat surface, and use cauls

Dont over tighten your clamps either.  Tighten them just enough to get the squeeze out.

Then clean the glue squeeze out with a wet cloth/paper towel etc.

Since we are going back to basics thought Id mention this.

Over tightening clamps will cause and misalignment / cupping as well
 
sancho57 said:
farms100 said:
one question I have is are you glueing up lots of strips on edge, or 3-4 wide boards?

Cherry looks great, but is fairly soft, we have cherry flooring and it has lots of small dents from shoes, stuff being dropped on it etc.

like other said, proper wood preparation is vital. Don't overlook moisture problems, and  sticker everything

1. let wood acclimate to the shop
2. Double check your machinery set ups, fences, blades etc at 90 degrees
3. rough mill oversize then sticker. Boards that develop significant bow, twist, or cup might be reaction wood, or had drying faults
4. final mil to size
5 Dry fit and dry clamp to see what happens.
       I suggest glueing up in stages so its less stressful, glue up on a flat surface, and use cauls

Dont over tighten your clamps either.  Tighten them just enough to get the squeeze out.

Then clean the glue squeeze out with a wet cloth/paper towel etc.

Since we are going back to basics thought Id mention this.

Over tightening clamps will cause and misalignment / cupping as well

Sancho you bring up an excellent point about clamping pressure, I found this article to be quite interesting on that exact topic http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/27121/how-to-glue-up-joints-different-woods-need-different-clamping-pressure
 
nice that we have a lot of advice here regarding the application of biscuit or domino I have not gone onto the domino as yet and no doubt I will try the domino again with my tried and tested biscuit jointer , perhaps the best advice as to whether the op should buy the domino or not should be try the machine if it does not suit your needs the return it under the thirty day scheme , simple , ( my biscuit jointer elu ds 140  ) over the years done thousands off joints and I've had Lot's of success , but I am never to old for change .
 
Since you can get plywood in 4x8, 5x5 etc sheets, one doesn't normally edge join plywood. One just cuts the panel to the size needed.

fdengel said:
Stephen B said:
This includes alternating end grain so that two consecutive pieces do not run in the same direction.

If we are talking about plywood, how would this be relevant?
 
Paul G said:
sancho57 said:
farms100 said:
one question I have is are you glueing up lots of strips on edge, or 3-4 wide boards?

Cherry looks great, but is fairly soft, we have cherry flooring and it has lots of small dents from shoes, stuff being dropped on it etc.

like other said, proper wood preparation is vital. Don't overlook moisture problems, and  sticker everything

1. let wood acclimate to the shop
2. Double check your machinery set ups, fences, blades etc at 90 degrees
3. rough mill oversize then sticker. Boards that develop significant bow, twist, or cup might be reaction wood, or had drying faults
4. final mil to size
5 Dry fit and dry clamp to see what happens.
       I suggest glueing up in stages so its less stressful, glue up on a flat surface, and use cauls

Dont over tighten your clamps either.  Tighten them just enough to get the squeeze out.

Then clean the glue squeeze out with a wet cloth/paper towel etc.

Since we are going back to basics thought Id mention this.

Over tightening clamps will cause and misalignment / cupping as well

Sancho you bring up an excellent point about clamping pressure, I found this article to be quite interesting on that exact topic http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/27121/how-to-glue-up-joints-different-woods-need-different-clamping-pressure

I found that clamping pressure definately effects the cupping of the wood. So does having the grain of the wood going in opposite directions for glue up.such as a u-n if that makes sense.
 
"I found that clamping pressure definately effects the cupping of the wood. So does having the grain of the wood going in opposite directions for glue up.such as a u-n if that makes sense."

Hey Sancho, check out the alternating grain in the hamburger stack!!
 
Ilike my burgers with alt grain too, cheese  in different directions, if things go my way ill be eating a the place that makes those burgers
 
A domino is a great tool - great for aligning stuff, for strong assembly, for creative joints ... the 500 and the 700XL make a great combo too [wink]

If you want a tool that's going to give you a better result than a biscuit joiner - the domino it it for certain.

Go for it!
 
I just gave my biscuit jointer away. Didnt do what I got it for, its been sitting around collecting dust for 10 + years or so.

I havent used it in so long I forgot I even had it.

The domino I got last year, has stepped up and exceeded the biscuit jointer and will do what I got the biscuit jointer for and more.

Just my opinion.

Your milage may vary
 
3PedalMINI said:
Were redoing our kitchen and haven chosen to go with a cherry countertop. Ive done some practice glu ups and im not to happy with the dewalt biscuit joiner i purchased a few years ago (surprised?)

its one thing with a bunch of cheap pine but for the final product i want this to be as perfect as possible. Will the dominos help prevent "cupping" and help with vertical alignment? There have been a bunch of other house projects that would be nice to have the domino for to but this is the main project im trying to justify the domino for.

Thanks!
I do a lot of large panel glue ups, and have done many countertops. Before I got my domino I would use two rows of biscuits (one on top of the other) to maintain vertical alignment. 
Nowadays I use the 5mm dominos strictly for alignment, just because I find it more hassle to lay down cauls, and even if you have a perfectly jointed face/edge the board always likes to slip up and down with wet glue.

I don't necessarily think the domino is better than the biscuit joiner in how much it helps with the alignment, but the cross stop pins are a huge time saver. I wouldn't get a domino just for that though. As an example I recently joined three large ash boards and had the dominos slots all cut in about 20 minutes (a domino every foot or so). Superb DC as well so no mess.

The most important thing you can do to make your life easier and final product better, is to have proper, methodic four-squaring stock preparation.
That means, face joint the boards (if they're relatively flat on either side, you can skip that and just skip plane, especially if it's a heavy board), plane the other side, joint one edge, table saw (or track saw) to final width. If you used the track saw you might not have to go back to the jointer, with my table saw I usually go back with one light pass.

Having that edge perfectly square to the face is what really matters in getting a pain free, and flat glue up.

After you have that, you can use a biscuit joiner or domino to align, that way your seams are even, and you have less rough sanding to do after your panel is done.

I find the whole alternating growth rings thing a secondary consideration- if a board is going to board or cup, it's going to, and when it does you will have issues, regardless of whether it looks like a washboard, or a potato chip. It's OK to do it that way, but making sure your lumber is well conditioned, stable, and working it only when it is ready is key. Proper finishing and allowing the panel to be evenly exposed to moisture changes is also important.
I say this because if you limit your board arrangement in order to prioritize the growth rings, you better have near perfect lumber, with perfect grain orientation between boards. In my experience this is never the case, and I would not cheat the final appearance of my work in order to get the growth rings to alternate. Remember that your final product will be attached to the cabinet with screws, so to a large extent bowing or cupping can be minimized by forcing it flat. Always give it room to move across the grain though.

 
Birdhunter said:
Please let us know what you decided to do and how it turns out.

I am especially interested in how you finish the cherry. I've struggled with getting a non-blotch finish on cherry. I've gone the shellac route and it produced a relatively non-blotchy finish after many coats, but shellac certainly isn't tough enough for a counter top. If you come up with good results, please share your secret.

And, I suggest getting the Domino 500. I delayed for a couple of years because of the cost and, now I regret not having it for many projects for which it would have been ideal. It's a difficult tool to master, but, once you do, it's fantastic.
Are you talking about staining? Cherry is one of the more tricky woods to stain (with maple and birch being the others).
If you absolutely need to stain it (and I don't think cherry should be stained, ever), a 1 # cut of shellac will help. Then you would ideally use some type of a gel stain or glaze. For sure shellac isn't durable enough for a countertop- over that you would want a more durable top coat, ie an polyurethane varnish, lacquer.

For countertops, I highly recommend General Finishes' Arm-R-Seal for countertops as a wipe-on/off finish, and for spraying, GF's Enduro Pre-Cat Urethane is an excellent choice as well. I've also sprayed GF's Enduro-Var as well, works great to pop the grain if you don't have an oil or shella undercoat.
 
Looks are usually a lot more important than alternating growth rings. I think PWW did some testing about the validity of alternating rings. In theory it would be on average flatter, but what's worse a surface that is gently curved or wavey? My first table I did in shop class in 7th grade had the wavy top and setting a drink on it was an adventure.
 
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