Wood for Victorian Gable trim

[JCLP]

Hi All. I've been asked by a friend, who just purchased a century home, to design and build some Victorian trim for the gables of his house and wrap around porch. Would anyone have any recommendations on what species of wood to use? It will be painted white.
Thanks,

 

[Brice Burrell]

I wouldn't recommend wood, period.  PVC trim works well for virtually any kind of of trim.

 

[peter halle]

I wouldn't recommend wood, period.  PVC trim works well for virtually any kind of of trim.

Agreed.

 

[JCLP]

I wouldn't recommend wood, period.  PVC trim works well for virtually any kind of of trim.

Being a century home, he wants to bring it back to the way it was and PVC was not around 100 years ago. Also, I believe it may be a heritage home as well in which case plastics are not allowed.

 

[tiralie]

I am guessing but they probably used (old growth) long leaf yellow pine.
It is highly resistant to rot. There is very little old growth available, sometimes they find it at the bottom of a swamp but it's expensive.
For a cheaper alternative, I would use cedar or similar rot resistant species.
Alternatively straight grain clear pine is expensive but contains a lot of natural pitch which helps protect it. Properly milled, primed installed and maintained it will last.
Tim

I to would suggest PVC first, but understand why in this case it may not be appropriate. Most folks don't have the resources or the time to maintain wood properly.

 

[leakyroof]

How about Larch?  It's used in boats and as exterior cladding, painted. And usually seems to be plentiful up North or at least Pacific Northwest.

 

[peter halle]

I understand that rules are rules and your customer wants to do the "right thing" but for rules to not allow a long term solution like PVC in a painted trim situation like the one you described is fairly short-sighted on the part of the rule drafters.  Victorians are dwindling in numbers because people can't afford the upkeep.

Other woods to look at could include cypress and mahogany.

Peter

 

[leakyroof]

I understand that rules are rules and your customer wants to do the "right thing" but for rules to not allow a long term solution like PVC in a painted trim situation like the one you described is fairly short-sighted on the part of the rule drafters.  Victorians are dwindling in numbers because people can't afford the upkeep.

Other woods to look at could include cypress and mahogany.

Peter

  Good other choices for wood. As for the 'Rule Makers', being in old Virginia, you should be a bit accustomed to that with regards to Historic Houses and building exterior restrictions, yes?  Or it is more forgiving than say somewhere in New England?
Just wondering....

 

[JCLP]

I understand that rules are rules and your customer wants to do the "right thing" but for rules to not allow a long term solution like PVC in a painted trim situation like the one you described is fairly short-sighted on the part of the rule drafters.  Victorians are dwindling in numbers because people can't afford the upkeep.

Other woods to look at could include cypress and mahogany.

Peter

   Good other choices for wood. As for the 'Rule Makers', being in old Virginia, you should be a bit accustomed to that with regards to Historic Houses and building exterior restrictions, yes?  Or it is more forgiving than say somewhere in New England?
Just wondering....

They're pretty strict up hear. Every town and city is a little different, but still very strict. I have even heard the Heritage people ask for milk paint on another project. All in all, the restoring and maintenance of a heritage home is not a cheap one and only the well to do can afford it. Our city, Markham, will sell you an old heritage home for $1.00 and a lot for you to move it to for 1/2 the market price. Moving cost run anywhere from $100,000 to over $250,000 depending on the size and weight of the home and how many utility wires need to be moved, police escort, etc. You then have 5 years to completely restore it and move in or you get fined.
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I need to look into Larch. Never heard of it. Cheers.

 

[peter halle]

I understand that rules are rules and your customer wants to do the "right thing" but for rules to not allow a long term solution like PVC in a painted trim situation like the one you described is fairly short-sighted on the part of the rule drafters.  Victorians are dwindling in numbers because people can't afford the upkeep.

Other woods to look at could include cypress and mahogany.

Peter

   Good other choices for wood. As for the 'Rule Makers', being in old Virginia, you should be a bit accustomed to that with regards to Historic Houses and building exterior restrictions, yes?  Or it is more forgiving than say somewhere in New England?
Just wondering....

Whereas the OP seems to have an alternative to look into, to answer the question about the restriction here in say Richmond, VA - I would have no real earthly idea.  I specialize in work out in the suburbs and generally in homes built after 1983.  I am not lead certified and my rig takes up three plus parking places and requires 1/2 city block to parallel park.

I do not that here we have historic districts and the requirements may be different in each.  The area can be as small as a couple city blocks.

Peter

 

[leakyroof]

I understand that rules are rules and your customer wants to do the "right thing" but for rules to not allow a long term solution like PVC in a painted trim situation like the one you described is fairly short-sighted on the part of the rule drafters.  Victorians are dwindling in numbers because people can't afford the upkeep.

Other woods to look at could include cypress and mahogany.

Peter

   Good other choices for wood. As for the 'Rule Makers', being in old Virginia, you should be a bit accustomed to that with regards to Historic Houses and building exterior restrictions, yes?  Or it is more forgiving than say somewhere in New England?
Just wondering....

and my rig takes up three plus parking places and requires 1/2 city block to parallel park.

Peter

  That's a REALLY LARGE MAXI-SYS...... [poke] [poke] [poke]

 

[SMJoinery]

I do quite a bit of listed or properties with conservation features.
We are currently replacing some scroll cut gable trim at the moment.
We use hardwood mainly mahogany / meranti.
It still needs a good painting regime to keep it pristine but won't rot if you miss a year (or two).
We use a lot of larch for rain screens here and it's fab but if your gable trim is full of nice scrolls etc don't use larch. It is too weak where you are left with a short run of grain when cutting the features. This is why we stick with meranti, that and it's more stable over a wide board. The board in the photo is 300mm (12")!
The carvex is superb with these cuts with the scroll blades.
Hope that helps.
Best regards
Scott

 

[JCLP]

I do quite a bit of listed or properties with conservation features.
We are currently replacing some scroll cut gable trim at the moment.
We use hardwood mainly mahogany / meranti.
It still needs a good painting regime to keep it pristine but won't rot if you miss a year (or two).
We use a lot of larch for rain screens here and it's fab but if your gable trim is full of nice scrolls etc don't use larch. It is too weak where you are left with a short run of grain when cutting the features. This is why we stick with meranti, that and it's more stable over a wide board. The board in the photo is 300mm (12")!
The carvex is superb with these cuts with the scroll blades.
Hope that helps.
Best regards
Scott

Hi Scott. Your experience is going to help me a lot. Thank you. Question though, never heard of meranti, is that another name for Philipine mahogany?

 

[leakyroof]

I do quite a bit of listed or properties with conservation features.
We are currently replacing some scroll cut gable trim at the moment.
We use hardwood mainly mahogany / meranti.
It still needs a good painting regime to keep it pristine but won't rot if you miss a year (or two).
We use a lot of larch for rain screens here and it's fab but if your gable trim is full of nice scrolls etc don't use larch. It is too weak where you are left with a short run of grain when cutting the features. This is why we stick with meranti, that and it's more stable over a wide board. The board in the photo is 300mm (12")!
The carvex is superb with these cuts with the scroll blades.
Hope that helps.
Best regards
Scott

Well, there is European Larch, and our Domestic Larch, which I think is refered to as Western Larch.  The Grain structure looks really different between the two. Western Larch seems to look like straight grained Douglas Fir.
As for Meranti, another relative of Philippine Mahogany or sold as Philippine Mahogany.
I can never keep all the Mahogany's straight, which one is the True Mahogany, all the others that are either related or just sold as a substitute .  [embarassed]. I thought Swietenia mahogani, Cuban Mahogany, was the one.
Makore is another sub. for Mahogany out of Africa.
But, source or price your wood species local , and try to avoid higher priced Hardwoods with a first estimate of cost to see how much a softwood species might run you.

 

[tiralie]

  I thought Swietenia mahogani, Cuban Mahogany, was the one.
Makore is another sub. for Mahogany out of Africa.

"The Mahogany"

 

[Roseland]

Have you considered Iroko?

Andrew

 

[JCLP]

  I thought Swietenia mahogani, Cuban Mahogany, was the one.
Makore is another sub. for Mahogany out of Africa.

"The Mahogany"

Thanks Tim. I little light reading for my trip to new york city for the long weekend.

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

This is an interesting thread.
In NYC, many Victorian homes used much red and white oak. Much high-end furniture was of mahogany. I'm not an expert, but I was under the impression that different areas used what was most abundant for home building. So I guess, in Canada it could be Larch. In NY, it would be oak. In other places, pine. A friend, who just renovated his new apartment in the Ansonia ( used the TV show 666) wanted to keep everything as close to the original materials used in the building as possible. Marble tile from Italy, etc. He used red oak for all casing, throughout the apartment.
Another friend around the corner, however,  used imported mahogany for all the main floor ceilings, walls, bannisters, etc.

 

[leakyroof]

  I thought Swietenia mahogani, Cuban Mahogany, was the one.
Makore is another sub. for Mahogany out of Africa.

"The Mahogany"

  Thanks for the info.  It's always amazing how trade of any item can have a long, twisted tale behind it... [wink]

 

[Wonderwino]

I was at a Gary Katz Roadshow a few years ago and he was promoting Windsor One trim.  It is treated and pre-primed.  I don't know if they make the profiles you need, but it might be worth a look.

WindsorONE