Woodpecker lift - sidewinder or PRLv2?

[hobbes]

Since I already have part of the setup (their table). I'm debating between whether to pull the trigger on their lift...so they have two on sale, the sidewinder and their PRL-V2 lift. If you have one (or just have an opinion on one) why did you pick that one? What are the pros/cons of these two? I'm thinking to match it with the PC7518. Boy, how convenient it would be if they made an adapter for the OF1400.

Anyhow, let me know your thoughts on this.

 

[sgryd]

I first bought the sidewinder.
Sidewinder pros:
- Speedy adjustments
- Less holes on the table to catch dust
- Possibility to raise the bit into work piece (don't know in reality, but that was my thouhgt when I bought it)

Sidewinder cons:
- A little slop in the adjustment
- Adjustment lever/knob/what-is-it-called protrudes from the side of the table. Easy to bump your leg into or bump into things if table is on wheels
- Not good locking device. You lock the lever, but since it's a little slop you can't actually lock the lift.
- Harder to build a dust box around the router.

So..
I have now bought a conversion kit to konvert my lift to PRL V2. This backwards conversion isn't really available, but Incra but one together for me. I have only unpacked it yet, but I really look forward to som more accuracy.

PRL pros (I think)
- No slop
- Direct lock (you loch the turn wheel whick is directly connected to the lift via a gearbox)

PRL cons (I think)
- Not as speedy to adjust height.
- You have to clear the table to get access to adjustment wheel.

After inspecting the gear box I think I might be able to turn an axel and connect into the gear box. This would give me the speedy adjustment but with direct drive.

I'm really happy that I got the Incra version of the lift since this one has the magna lock rings. They are really nice.
Good luck.
//Michael

 

[hobbes]

Thanks Michael for the detailed response. Sounds like PRLv2 might be the better choice given what you've said. My concern with the Incra lift (and other lifts for that matter) is if it will sit flush with the Woodpecker table.

 

[sgryd]

The Incra PRL-V2 is the same lift. Woodpecker makes it for Incra. The only difference I'm aware of is the Incra label and the Magna lock plates. Magna lock consists of steel insert plates which attaches to the router plate with magnets. To change plate you just lift the plate up with your finget. It snaps out of the magnetic force and the new plate snaps in. The original woodpeckers inserts has to be changed with a tool I think (they might be able to change without a tool, but it doesn't look like that not sure). I.e. one less tool to loose in the shop or not have at hand right when you need it. I change rings all the time to have as small opening as the bit allows.

And to be clear:
Yes, I would buy the PRL-V2 instead of the Sidewinder. BUT - I havent tried the PRL yet..

 

[jmarkflesher]

I have the PRL-V2. Got mine 6 months before they introduced the sidewinder. I have a wixey on mine for repeatability. It is as close to dead on as you could expect from a hobby tool. I went to a show where they were showing the sidewinder. The REP told me that if you need repeatability the whip(backlash) in the sidewinder is to great.  MARK

 

[DKurzweil]

I have the PRL V2 and am very happy with it.  The height adjustments are actually very quick, and accurate.  It is also a solid build, I don't see it failing any time in the near future.  

Just so you know, I have it combined with an Incra LS positioner, and could not be happier.

Let me know if you need anymore info on the PRL.

Best,
Daniel

 

[hobbes]

Curious, what router do you guys use w/ this lift?

Do you find the adjustment dial a hassle to use?

 

[sgryd]

I have a Bosch. But we don't have other routers with round body in Sweden, so Bosch it is (a great router btw). If I had the choice I would get one with remote speed control. But I actually don't know if this is available anywhere..

 

[DKurzweil]

I have a Porter Cable 690 at the moment (left over from my pre-festool router days). 

When you say the dial, do you mean the wheel you turn to make the adjustment, or the indicator wheel that turns in unison (the one you can reset).  Either way, I find them very simple to use and effective. 

Best,
Daniel

 

[sgryd]

Only bad thing with the dial: it's not metric 

 

[hobbes]

Referring to the fine adjustment.

I asked about the router because I wondered about how they are w/ respect to dust build-up and possibly burning up the motor if it's not well handled and also how easy it is for bit changes.

Why doesn't anyone make a lift for Festool routers (aside from the whole Festool setup in the CMS)?

 

[DKurzweil]

The fine adjustment works just fine.  As far as dust getting in the router I haven't had a problem.

 

[Tinker]

Referring to the fine adjustment.

I asked about the router because I wondered about how they are w/ respect to dust build-up and possibly burning up the motor if it's not well handled and also how easy it is for bit changes.

Why doesn't anyone make a lift for Festool routers (aside from the whole Festool setup in the CMS)?

Worried about dust getting into the router.  It sounds as if you have been reading about, or own the WoodRat.  That one is well designed to keep the dust from reaching the router.  The problem there is, the dust gets everywhere else in the shop.  I do have other router table with dust shoot coming off the back of the fence.  I have had no problem with dust from that set up.  I would suspect you would not have the problem with your WoodPecker lift as long as you do set up dust collection from underneath or from the back of the fence.
Tinker

 

[semenza]

I have the PRL original model, it is great. I really don't have any true complaints, yes I have to do a little cranking to raise the bit all the way for changes but it really isn't that  bad. 

I use the PC7518 in it.  As far as putting your Festool router in the table goes.... well I would want two routers anyway, at least for in shop work swapping it in/out of the lift  on a regular bases would be a real pain.

Seth

 

[GaryLaroff]

I have the PRL-V2 and bought it when it was quite new and paired it with the PC7518.  I also bought the Wixey digital gauge but have not installed that.  It is installed in an enclosed router cabinet that I built based on a design by Woodhaven with a Woodhaven table top and fence.  This is my fourth router table configuration and the only one I have not wanted to replace.  After 20 years of tolerating substandard router systems, I am finally satisfied.

The enclosed cabinet, PRL-V2, PC7518 and dual top/bottom dust collection make this configuration relatively quiet and clean.  I occasionally need two simultaneous router setups and now find my table saw extension table-based open system with PC-790 or PC890 routers to be unbearable despite the fact that it has a nice Incra fence.

What I like about the PRL-V2 / PC7518 combination is that it is solid, powerful, has above the table bit installation and is micro-adjustable.  The big knurled finger height adjustment (red dial in the front) is below table level and enables micro-adjustment of the bit height.  If I had to list the single most useful feature of this lift, I think that is it.  The side-winder seemed more user-friendly but had far too much backlash for me.

Two accessories have made this system more enjoyable.  I added the Woodpecker aluminum insert plates and bought an offset router collet wrench.

Gary

[attachimg=#]

R.I.P. Tes, shop dog.  Passed away spring 2012.

 

[hobbes]

Well, I ordered and received the PRL v2 and am waiting for my PC 7518 to come in as well an an Incra table stand. Unfortunately, I bought the Woodpecker table top BEFORE this and it looks like I might have been better off going with an Incra offset table top so i can more easily use their positioner. Anyone have a Woodpeck table top (the large one) with the hole centered using the Incra positioner? Now at this point, I'm thinking I should have gotten the Incra offset table top OR try to rig something to hold the positioner behind the fence. Thoughts and experience with this setup? Do you recommend a different fence/positioner all together? 

All this lessons learned is getting to be very costly.  [scared] [embarassed]

Here's a few observations so far:

- The PRL v2 is solid and I'm glad I went with that thanks to your inputs re: slop (or lack thereof), difference compared to the Incra version is the magnalock rings but not sure if that matters too much.
- The Incra table stand is nice becase it has slots so one can quickly enclose the unit by sliding in boards along its edge rails which is missing in the other stands I saw.
- Mix and matching doesn't save much and creates its own headaches but there does offer some unique capabilities by picking best of breed (so to speak, now if only there's an lift directly for OF1400)

 

[sgryd]

Folding Incra positioner in this thread:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/sysport-cms-mft-(work-in-progress)/

 

[RONWEN]

I've had the PRL V2 since they first came out (3 yrs. ago?).  It's been very reliable with fine accuracy.  I thought about retrofitting the sidewinder setup to it but the cable end drive mounts at the bottom of the PRL lift & parallel with the motor spindle -- this requires a considerable amount of room for the cable arc (probably about 8" below the lift) which would eliminate a couple of drawers in my table.  I usually adjust the table fence instead of the router bit height for multiple cuts so  the gain wasn't worth the lose in my case.

 

[hobbes]

Thanks Sgryd for the link. I saw that thread awhile back but I don't recall seeing the router setup w/ the positioner. That looks like the best add-on implementation yet (that I've seen). Now if only someone would package it up that way and sell it as an add-on kit. I'll have to look into possibly replacing one of the long edge rail with one of those 80/20 tracks and get some of those adapters. This may take awhile before everything finally comes together.

Ronwen, looks like an opportunity for more jigs and tools for you to sell. I'll be first in line if you make that adapter.

 

[RONWEN]

Thanks Sgryd for the link. I saw that thread awhile back but I don't recall seeing the router setup w/ the positioner. That looks like the best add-on implementation yet (that I've seen). Now if only someone would package it up that way and sell it as an add-on kit. I'll have to look into possibly replacing one of the long edge rail with one of those 80/20 tracks and get some of those adapters. This may take awhile before everything finally comes together.

Ronwen, looks like an opportunity for more jigs and tools for you to sell. I'll be first in line if you make that adapter.

I thought about using a little right angle drive similar to the Milwaukee right angle drill adapter so that there isn't so much wasted space below the router lift for the woodpecker cable -- as I said above, I tend to adjust the fence for multiple passes instead of raising the router bit so the gain for me was minimal.