Woodpecker Quality and price???

[Cheese]

The OTT thing is rather hokey but I just accept it...it is what it is. Some of the OTT offerings are definitely worth the wait. The 26" and 18" framing squares, the bevel gauge & reference plate, the corner radius jigs, the stainless Paolini pocket rule, the saddle T-squares and the stainless carpenters square to name a few.

Two interesting OTT notes:

The 26" & 18" framing squares are no longer OTT, they are now regularly available production items. They listened. [big grin]

The original Paolini rule was made from 1/8" thick aluminum which placed the scale too far above the surface of the board for accurate marking. The 2nd iteration was made with .050" thick stainless which made for much more accurate marking. They listened again. [big grin] [big grin]

There's been some discussion about how expensive the Woodpeckers tools are. One discussion that I remember was on the framing squares.
The Woodpeckers 18" x 12" square is $159. The Starrett 12" x 7" square is $703.
The Woodpeckers 26" x 16" square is $229. The Starrett 24" x 12" square is $1800.
That's some pretty solid bang for the buck.

Need a larger square than 26" x 16", Starrett offers a 36" x 20" square for only $4495.

 

[jacko9]

The OTT thing is rather hokey but I just accept it...it is what it is. Some of the OTT offerings are definitely worth the wait. The 26" and 18" framing squares, the bevel gauge & reference plate, the corner radius jigs, the stainless Paolini pocket rule, the saddle T-squares and the stainless carpenters square to name a few.

Two interesting OTT notes:

The 26" & 18" framing squares are no longer OTT, they are now regularly available production items. They listened. [big grin]

I have the Sea

The original Paolini rule was made from 1/8" thick aluminum which placed the scale too far above the surface of the board for accurate marking. The 2nd iteration was made with .050" thick stainless which made for much more accurate marking. They listened again. [big grin] [big grin]

There's been some discussion about how expensive the Woodpeckers tools are. One discussion that I remember was on the framing squares.
The Woodpeckers 18" x 12" square is $159. The Starrett 12" x 7" square is $703.
The Woodpeckers 26" x 16" square is $229. The Starrett 24" x 12" square is $1800.
That's some pretty solid bang for the buck.

Need a larger square than 26" x 16", Starrett offers a 36" x 20" square for only $4495.

I have the Starrett 12" x 7" and it is a thing of beauty.  I use it to check my other operating squares around the shop (kinda my reference along with my Starrett 1M straight edge)  I do own and yes the Woodpecker 12" x 18" and 16" x 26" framing squares - they are great!

 

[JFelchlin]

As a Hobbyist woodworker I understand that my needs/usage are very different from those of Tradesmen -
Who use their tools every day - In the field - Subject to much greater levels of wear and tear.
Having said that - Over two decades of woodworking - I have bought/own/use many Woodpeckers' products - And before that, many Pinnacle products (bought at Woodcraft).
Like Festool products - They are PREMIUM PRICED. Unlike my Festool products -
I have never had a Woodpeckers/Pinnacle product fail or need servicing. Ever. Every one of them is still in use.
They are extremely well made - Precise and exacting - A pleasure to work with.

To be sure, the One Time Tools sale's model is both aggravating and cumbersome.
But, I understand the reality that - These OTT’s have a limited market (demand) -
And are offered on a "we'll make the number we can sell; and no more" -
A limited supply to meet a limited demand.
Owning and storing unsold inventory is a tremendous expense for a company.
Inventory can only be dedicated to products that have a regular, ongoing demand.
That's a simple reality for any business.
In that sense - The OTT products - That wouldn't normally even be made or available - Are there to be had - Albeit for a limited time - To those that DO want them.
As for my experience with Woodpeckers' customer responsiveness -
The one time I needed to call Woodpeckers regarding a OTT (delivery was late a few days) - They answered on the first telephone ring.
Apologies were extended to me. My OTT was delivered - Overnight.
Disclaimer: I do not work for, or am compensated by, any tool company, including Woodpeckers, Festool, or Woodcraft.

Let me also say - That I highly value the multitude of divergent opinions offered on the FOG about companies, brands and products.
Experiences reviewing products - Good and bad - Or good or poor service by vendors - Is extremely helpful. It regularly helps me discern which brands/products to buy - Or not.
Unappreciated and unhelpful - Are personal attacks on tool vendors and FOG members -
That disagree with a vendor's product offering - Or a member's opinion given.
They may serve a personal need to "vent" - But they offer nothing of value to the FOG community.
Seth and Peter must "grit their teeth" as they see 'em.[unsure]

Lastly... Onevw (OP):
I have an MBA (hard earned and proudly held) -
And 28 years of management experience - At entry thru senior level positions -
At a major consumer products company.
I’ve also taught post-graduate MBA courses in Marketing Research, Consumer Product Development and Sales Managment.
During my company tenure - We were extraordinarily successful because our mantra was:
We only made and sold - The highest quality products - That our customers would buy - At premium prices. They loved our products. And bought ‘em, they did.
When I joined the company we had 352 employees - Located only in the NE U.S.
When I retired we had 183,000+ employees in multiple international markets.
Us “MBA’s” must have been doing something right.[smile]

 

 

[rvieceli]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] those are Starrett Master Precision Squares. Add an extra zero to right of the decimal point before the one. So that’s within 0.0001”

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] those are Starrett Master Precision Squares. Add an extra zero to right of the decimal point before the one. So that’s within 0.0001”

Hey Ron, I believe the Starretts are accurate to .0001” per 6”, so that’d be .0002”/ft. The Woodpeckers are accurate to .001”/ft. That’s still pretty impressive for a mass produced item that only costs $160.

I believe a number of years ago Woodpeckers guaranteed the accuracy of their smaller framing square to be .003”/ft. So Woodpeckers has upped the ante again.

I have the 7” & the 4” Starrett squares and they really are a thing of beauty.  [big grin]

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
Us “MBA’s” must have been doing something right.[smile]

As an MBA holder myself, I know business decisions are not always understood by customers, and often not even by staff members themselves. People like to blame a company's ill-received change to the "bean-counter", or the MBA guy or gal. I wish things in the real world were that simple, and Sears probably would not have filed for bankruptcy protection. Truth is no single person (with an MBA or not) in a business can call all the shots.

I know how useful an MBA can be, and so since I took up woodworking, I have achieved a higher academic recognition without much sweat: a PhD.

As in Projects half Done!

 

[DeformedTree]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] those are Starrett Master Precision Squares. Add an extra zero to right of the decimal point before the one. So that’s within 0.0001”

Hey Ron, I believe the Starretts are accurate to .0001” per 6”, so that’d be .0002”/ft. The Woodpeckers are accurate to .001”/ft. That’s still pretty impressive for a mass produced item that only costs $160.

I believe a number of years ago Woodpeckers guaranteed the accuracy of their smaller framing square to be .003”/ft. So Woodpeckers has upped the ante again.

I have the 7” & the 4” Starrett squares and they really are a thing of beauty.  [big grin]

I just wouldn't go comparing the 2 brands.  One targets woodworkers, the other targets machine shops with metrology departments inspecting parts.  Starrett can charge way more, as those who need them will pay for it as part of doing business.  I don't think my company would know what to do with "woodpeckers" square and how to go about getting it calibrated yearly.

It's not a knock on woodpeckers, it's just they aren't targeting the same thing.

 

[Cheese]

I just wouldn't go comparing the 2 brands.  One targets woodworkers, the other targets machine shops with metrology departments inspecting parts.  Starrett can charge way more, as those who need them will pay for it as part of doing business.  I don't think my company would know what to do with "woodpeckers" square and how to go about getting it calibrated yearly.

It's not a knock on woodpeckers, it's just they aren't targeting the same thing.

I guess my point was that until Woodpeckers made their framing square, there was only one other source for an accurate large sized Made in America square and that was Starrett, and the entry level price was high. Woodpeckers then entered the marketplace and produced a framing square that was close to the accuracy of the Starrett square yet was affordable for the average woodworker. Thats a very big deal because it brought the accuracy of the machine shop to the shop of the average woodworker. That’s not an insignificant event.

 

[Vondawg]

TOTALY agree Cheese...well put!

 

[DeformedTree]

I just wouldn't go comparing the 2 brands.  One targets woodworkers, the other targets machine shops with metrology departments inspecting parts.  Starrett can charge way more, as those who need them will pay for it as part of doing business.  I don't think my company would know what to do with "woodpeckers" square and how to go about getting it calibrated yearly.

It's not a knock on woodpeckers, it's just they aren't targeting the same thing.

I guess my point was that until Woodpeckers made their framing square, there was only one other source for an accurate large sized Made in America square and that was Starrett, and the entry level price was high. Woodpeckers then entered the marketplace and produced a framing square that was close to the accuracy of the Starrett square yet was affordable for the average woodworker. That’s a very big deal because it brought the accuracy of the machine shop to the shop of the average woodworker. That’s not an insignificant event.

Oh I understand.  From above though I got the impression people were thinking them as the same thing/Starrett was massively overpriced, or that the price differences were "in a vacuum" and thus there is nothing else driving the price difference.

I'd say the biggest thing the last 20 years is simply the cost of CNC parts has fell thru the floor.  You can get a very good CNC "cheap" now, which has made the business for small companies to crank out highly accurate, low volume, special application machined parts a reality. If it wasn't woodpeckers it would have been other businesses.  I wasn't looking at this stuff then, so I will just assume they were the first ones to move on this based on your comments.  This is where companies need to be careful, it's very easy now for someone else to come along and do the same, so if you do things to sour some customers, it can snowball badly on you fast.

 

[Cheese]

I'd say the biggest thing the last 20 years is simply the cost of CNC parts has fell thru the floor.  You can get a very good CNC "cheap" now, which has made the business for small companies to crank out highly accurate, low volume, special application machined parts a reality. If it wasn't woodpeckers it would have been other businesses.  I wasn't looking at this stuff then, so I will just assume they were the first ones to move on this based on your comments.  This is where companies need to be careful, it's very easy now for someone else to come along and do the same, so if you do things to sour some customers, it can snowball badly on you fast.

Ya, I was just thinking back to when the only "good" square you could afford was that $9 Stanley that had fallen from the scaffold 6 times and had also been run over with a car or a wheelbarrow. Woodpeckers changed that situation. [smile]

Talk about CNC, don't forget 3D printing. In 1988 a bunch of us asked management to procure a 3D printer for the model shop. That printer cost $50,000 at the time. That was a lot of money in 1988. The other day I saw that Dremel now makes one for $500-$600.

 

[DeformedTree]

Ya, I was just thinking back to when the only "good" square you could afford was that $9 Stanley that had fallen from the scaffold 6 times and had also been run over with a car or a wheelbarrow. Woodpeckers changed that situation. [smile]

It's just been distressed to give it character and an older feel. It takes time and the attention of many 800lb gorilla's to add that craftsman ship to it, sure without that treatment they would only charge $7.95 but it just wouldn't have the charm.

 

[Cheese]

It's just been distressed to give it character and an older feel. It takes time and the attention of many 800lb gorilla's to add that craftsman ship to it, sure without that treatment they would only charge $7.95 but it just wouldn't have the charm.

Well along with the charm lost... it also lost its accuracy.  [smile]

 

[Cheese]

Well, I noted in an earlier post that the 26" & 18" framing squares are no longer OTT, they are now regularly available production items.

I noticed this morning that the OTT DF500 Offset Base System has joined their ranks and is now, also a regular production item.  [big grin]. They've also maintained the pricing they had in 2015.
https://www.woodpeck.com/df500-offs...=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Woodpeckers+DF500+Offset+Base+System&utm_content=Check+Out+the+Latest+Addition+to+our+Product+Line.&utm_campaign=11.7.18+DF500+Offset+Base+System+-+INTRODUCTORY+&_bta_tid=29743622045476421803960484196187290911130802761275264813130289801452796861754280394849903832181568545051&_bta_c=49ldt13bdxr6gzu5i2gzf5543gyxy

 

[RKA]

They have started “stocking” these items but there are some growing pains people should be aware of. I ordered the square the morning you posted that they would be regularly sold items. While the website indicated it was in stock, it appears it wasn’t. I’m still waiting. So they haven’t much much in inventory yet and if it’s not in inventory there will be a wait.

 

[Cheese]

That's unfortunate Raj, as that was back on October 16th.  [sad]

You'd hope they would have suitable inventory levels before they make an announcement of something becoming a permanent addition to their product line. Hopefully, if this is just a hiccup, this hiccup will eventually go away.  [smile]

 

[RKA]

But they have a new website! 

I can't look up the order status though - more hiccups.  Not worth the call, it won't get here any faster.  I'll give them a pass on this one, setting up new websites and migrations are a royal pain in the butt.

 

[RKA]

Drumroll please...
One month and 10 days after the order was placed the "in stock" order is on it's way.  So if you've been waiting on a square, they might be catching up now.

 

[TSO_Products]

Drumroll please...
One month and 10 days after the order was placed the "in stock" order is on it's way.  So if you've been waiting on a square, they might be catching up now.

since TSO's  PTR-18 Precision Triangle is always in stock, you can always get one when you need such a tool. We're just as widely known so we have to try harder  [wink]
https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-precision-system-triangles/ptr-18-precision-basic-triangle/

Hans and Eric

Hans

 

[grbmds]

Every Woodpecker tool I own is high quality, accurate, and very precise. The OTT concept is clearly a marketing concept that has worked for awhile. If you think you want a OTT you the fact that it might not be available again is clearly a decision factor that isn't there when it's always in stock. It has moved me to buy a couple of items I might have not eventually bought if the tools would available all the time. Plus, some of the OTT's are definitely not necessities or even all that useful but, as someone else said, no one is twisting my arm to buy. As for responsiveness, I have never had a problem with Woodpeckers support. They have always given me help and straight answers.