Woodpecker's Drill Press Tables

[4nthony]

Now WP wants you to take the stop apart and reassemble it every time you switch it over?

I read your post, ran down to my garage, swapped over the flag, ran back upstairs and made this post in less than 60 seconds.

Seriously though, it takes less than 15 seconds to swap the position of the flag. It can be done even more quickly if the screw doesn't fall of your hex key.

 

[ChuckM]

Not commenting specifically on the WP drill press table, but 15 secs is a long time when it comes to setting things up like stop blocks for my shop. That's why I use auto switches on my shop vacs, holdfasts, multiple marking gauges, etc., and keep pencils, squares, ear plugs, etc. everywhere so I can get something going in 5 seconds or so.

 

[hdv]

When the fine adjustment screw is tight I can move the tip of the flip stop about a millimetre with just a slight push of my thumb. But only when I push the tip. When I push against the flip stop with a piece of wood of 40 mm high the deflection is minimal.

However, when I loosen the adjustment screw just one quarter turn, the play at the tip of the flip stop is more than 2 mm. And that is without using any force at all. It is that loose.

 

[hdv]

It was asked how the dust collection is on this fence. Well, today I was in the shop and finally remembered to take some pictures. These two are of the fence with a Festool CTL26 hooked to it. The drill bit is a brad point 10 mm. I am drilling through holes in birch that is 26 mm thick. The first picture is with the vac in its lowest setting. The second with the vac in its highest setting.

If I don't forget I'll do the same with a large forstner bit tomorrow.

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[attachimg=2]

 

[4nthony]

I was sharing some info with [member=4518]Mike Goetze[/member] yesterday over PM and wanted to add a few of the photos I shared with him.

Regarding the overhanging flip stop flags, I have flags that were milled differently from one another. When one is flipped up and resting on the fence, it sticks out a bit:

When it's snugged up and vertical, it is OK:

You can see the way my flags were milled. The flag that overhangs is on the right (the point is the part that overhangs - not a big deal and I can round it off on the belt sander):

The body knobs do not overhang the fence and I can slide boards past the micro-adjust wheels without catching an edge:


Mike mentioned he spoke to someone at WP and was told there have been a couple revisions of the flip stops. One of the revisions was supposed to prevent the micro adjust wheels from turning. With my flip-stops, if the flag is gently snugged to the body, the wheel will spin the first two times the flag is raised/lowered. In the video, notice the flags are initially set to 355mm and 285mm. After raising/lowering, they end up about a .5mm off from those distances.

However, now that I know this, I think the best option is to simply not snug the flags up to the body. Keep it a touch loose and you'll be able to raise/lower the flags without altering the micro-adjust yet they'll still be close enough to the body to prevent any real deflection from happening. Significant deflection (for my stops) starts to happen when the flag is extended more than 4-5mm away from the body. If you need that much adjustment, it might be better to move the stop.


I wonder if a better flip stop would combine the micro-adjust of the WP with the two flag version like the INCRA? Or, if something like the Katz-Moses stop block could incorporate a hinge?

Maybe the TSO idea would work best. They've decoupled the micro-adjust from the pivot point.

Anyway, enough of my rambling for now

 

[hdv]

Well, if we are rambling about this, let me join you.  [wink]

I would really like a universal flip stop based on TSO's take. Separating the fine-adjust from the pivoting would definitely be a good idea, because it allows for more flexibility in other design features.

For example, you could take the idea one step further by making the leg of the stop variable in length. The bump in width this would cause wouldn't be a problem with the adjustable stop like TSO uses on their flip stops. Being variable in length from the end of the leg would still allow the stop to "flip" along the pivot point. The different thicknesses of fences could be accounted for by some sort of sliding part, or by some adjustment mechanism on the back of the leg.

That way you could have a proper flip stop on all sorts of fences. Maybe even on 8020 extrusions.

Just dreaming...  [embarassed]

 

[chrisrosenb]

This is my home made fence with dust collection. The table is from Incra that I got from Woodpeckers many years ago.

Still kicking myself, about a year ago one of those tables was up for sale on my local CL and I didn't bite.

[member=1903]JD2720[/member] Are those Rockler flit-stops?

Thanks-Mike

The stops are Powertec that I purchased from Amazon. They have 2 1/4" & 3".

 

[Mini Me]

Mounting the flip stop on a cantilevered spindle is a flawed design unless a lot of money & careful design is spent to remove deflection. When I used two blocks on the Kreg system which was a similar approach to the Incra shown above idea the problem disappeared. WP appear to keep falling into design traps, surely they have a Beta user group they product test with??? Trying to convince someone who has designed something and put it in production that the design has flaws and it needs changing is an uphill battle.

 

[hdv]

Here's a picture of the Woodpeckers Drill Pro fence after drilling a 14 mm deep hole in birch with a 35 mm forstner bit. I had a Festool CTL26 on its highest setting attached to the fence while drilling. The centre of the hole was about 20 mm from the front of the fence.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Mike Goetzke]

Here's a picture of the Woodpeckers Drill Pro fence after drilling a 14 mm deep hole in birch with a 35 mm forstner bit. I had a Festool CTL26 on its highest setting attached to the fence while drilling. The centre of the hole was about 20 mm from the front of the fence.

[attachimg=1]

[member=66485]hdv[/member] and others. My Voyager is new so I'm still using the cast table. I had a dozen 1.5" Forstner bit holes to drill through a 2x6. With self start I was able to hold a 4" hose from my big dust collector next to the holes and I had at least as many chips as you show per hole.

Mike

 

[MikeGE]

Here's a picture of the Woodpeckers Drill Pro fence after drilling a 14 mm deep hole in birch with a 35 mm forstner bit. I had a Festool CTL26 on its highest setting attached to the fence while drilling. The centre of the hole was about 20 mm from the front of the fence.

I can certainly appreciate the difference with and without the vacuum port.  I don't have the WP Pro fence, but vacuum up after I'm done with each Forstner hole, and it is a mess.

 

[hdv]

When I still used my large diameter loc-line for dust control I had significantly less chips on the table after drilling a hole like this. But I do like this fence enough to not mind. Considering the amount of chips I would have to deal with without DC I feel this is good enough. Mind you, this is about the worst scenario you can get chip-wise. Besides, it is easy enough to nudge these chips towards the dust port with a little blow. If it were not for the less than stellar fine adjustable flips stops I would give this fence full points.

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] : thanks for confirming that  [big grin]

Maybe an e-mail will effect more results. I tried by referring to [member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member] earlier in this thread, but he might not have read it yet. I really am interested in that improved solution he said was in the works.

Here's that post by him:
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...ess-pro-fence-flip-stops/msg637086/#msg637086

[Edit: thread not threat... ]

Well here's the latest from my end...I emailed Woodpeckers and sent them a couple of photos of the issue I was having, mainly that the flip stops didn't operate correctly and that the diameter of the adjustment knobs were so large that it interfered with the placement of tall wood against the fence. Woodpeckers as usual, quickly answered my email and the same day issued a warranty claim. Four days later I received 2 new flip stops in the mail.

On the original flip stop arm the hub diameter was not a fully machined diameter which left a small projection that prevented tall boards from registering properly against the fence.

[attachimg=1]

The rest of the photos are pretty self explanatory...original design vs redesign.

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

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[attachimg=7]

 

[hdv]

That is an improvement indeed. I think I will e-mail them as well about the same issue. Thanks for the update!

Of course, that still leaves the fine-adjustment feature. I had hoped Woodpeckers would have some news about that. Not so (up to now at least). They do tell you to make sure to have the arm mounted on the proper side (when drilling left or right of the stop) to reduce flex. However, that does not make any difference when it comes to the slop in the fine-adjust mechanism (at least not in my pair).

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I just received my new WP DP-Pro system couple weeks ago. My flip-stop wheels and flag did not interfere with tall boards but on one the fine adjustment wheel would bind badly and jump. I took it apart and found on one side of the wheel they use a nylon spacer and on the other a wavy washer. The wavy washer looks too big in diameter to me and there isn’t a feature to keep it concentric with the threaded bolt. I think what was happening was the wavy washer came in contact with the threads causing the bind.

Just like [member=44099]Cheese[/member] WP immediately sent out two new stops. I didn’t take them apart but appears they have a smaller diameter wavy washer. What I didn’t like is the flags that came with new stops had that pointy nub that had to be ground down. Not a big deal but not something I would expect out of WP. (I don’t understand why the extrusion would have that nub. Seems the die to make the extrusion would be easier to make with a smooth round shape.)

Mike

 

[Cheese]

What I didn’t like is the flags that came with new stops had that pointy nub that had to be ground down. Not a big deal but not something I would expect out of WP. (I don’t understand why the extrusion would have that nub. Seems the die to make the extrusion would be easier to make with a smooth round shape.)

Mike, the real weird thing is the original flip stops I received, one had the protrusion and one had the protrusion machined off. Fast forward about 18 months and the 2 new flip stops I just received...one has the protrusion and one has the protrusion machined off. Go figure. [doh]  And with the flip stop in the up position, that protrusion will prevent a tall board from resting flat against the fence.

 

[4nthony]

Mike, the real weird thing is the original flip stops I received, one had the protrusion and one had the protrusion machined off. Fast forward about 18 months and the 2 new flip stops I just received...one has the protrusion and one has the protrusion machined off. Go figure. [doh]  And with the flip stop in the up position, that protrusion will prevent a tall board from resting flat against the fence.

That's exactly how I received mine a few weeks ago.  [oops] Everything else was fine with the stops so I just rounded it off on the belt sander.

 

[grbmds]

This is my home made fence with dust collection. The table is from Incra that I got from Woodpeckers many years ago.

Wow - was almost ready to put about $600 out for one of these. Seems WP missed some very basic flaws on this one.

Maybe I just build one myself like I did 20+ years ago. That one had a wood block with a T-bolt that fastened to a t-track on the face of the fence.

The idea of the flip stops to me is you can use them on the right or left. Many times you want both on one side of the bit. Now WP wants you to take the stop apart and reassemble it every time you switch it over?

I bought the DP pro when it came out and am satisfied. Is it perfect? Certainly not. I owned the Incra parts fence (that I believe was made by Woodpeckers years ago) for many years, but it was never perfect either. It had a lot of flexibility but also had some flaws.

When I replaced it with the DP Pro, there were 2 things which disappointed me. The first was dust collection but I take responsibility for not realizing that the only time the dust collection works well is when the piece being drilled is below the top of the fence. Otherwise the hole in the fence is covered. So I just use my old method of dust collection which was already mounted on the drill press.

The other issue for me was that the nice, easy to grab knobs for holding the fence in place stuck up just far enough that, on many tasks, they obstructed my drill press handles. I ended up replacing the knobs with some other metal knurled Woodpecker knobs that I don't use from another WP tool I bought. As for the drawer, I think it's great. It gives me storage for bits and hold downs. On the stops, they aren't perfect but I found them easy to use with a short learning period and, while a little touchy they aren't bad.

I have found over they years that it is the rare tool or jig which is perfect, even if homemade. I like to spend my time working on woodworking and building and turning, not making tables and jigs, so I think the DP Pro works fine for me.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Sorry I haven't checked FOG for a few weeks, guys.

I just spoke to the product engineer on the DP-PRO. He had a head-slap moment when I showed him 4nthony's picture of one correct and one incorrect stop flag from the same order shipment. The decision was made to machine the stops rather than pay for a new extrusion die at this point in time. That assumes that everyone is on the same page and remembers to send the flags from the cutting station to milling. Apparently the unmilled and milled flags have been co-mingled.

Anyone with a flag that has the wart on the back should contact Customer Service to have a replacement sent at no cost.

Same thing for you guys that bought on the original release and have the flip stops that stick out beyond the fence and/or have the micro-adjuster that self-adjusts when you raise and lower the flag. Contact Customer Service and we'll get replacements out to you at our expense.

 

[hdv]

Jeff, I did as recommended and within an hour got a reply that replacements were on their way. Great service!