Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)

[rljatl]

No the Starrett is not adjustable. It's only considered adjustable because you can exchange different length rules and you can also add additional attachments. Once locked-up however, it is what it is...it's either on or off. If it's on (like they have been for the last 100 years), you're golden, if it's off, you just chuck it in the trash. Thank God they're the former rather than the later.  [big grin]

I did not say anything about the Starrett being adjustable.  How do you know your Starrett is square?

 

[stvrowe]

I am holding out for the production version of the [member=9555]Chris Wong[/member] "Magic Square" 

 

[Nat X]

Nowhere does it say that you are expected to calibrate it yourself. It says that if you drop it on concrete numerous times over the years and find that it slips, you have the potential to calibrate it yourself as opposed to throwing it away and buying a new one, as I've had to do with two hardened Starrets that vibrated off the table, hit the floor and were never square again.

One piece or multiple pieces, metal moves. It moves less than wood tends to, but it is very, very, very far from anything approaching absolute dimensional stability.

Some peoples' senses of entitlement obviously never change shape. It's too bad no one can make anything useful out of those.

 

[Svar]

The more movable parts square has the easier it is knocked out of alignment. Also, there are more robust adjustable square designs then current Woodpeckers.

 

[Cheese]

In every ISO certified manufacturing facility, as part of the yearly ISO engineering validation process, all measurement tools are pulled from ALL engineers and are verified according to the company's ISO specifications.

In my particular case, I used my own personal measuring instruments (scales, squares, calipers, micrometers) to verify the measurements that were collected by the QA group. Thus, if I was to approve and release product, I needed to insure that all QA checks were conducted with ISO certified equipment. Bottom line is that my personal measuring instruments also needed to be ISO certified and that was on a recurring 1 year basis.

Hey [member=18283]RobBob[/member], forgot to add, both of the Starrett squares were acclimated to the test lab temp overnight and then compared to a granite cylinder. Pretty typical...

 

[live4ever]

Hahaha that video from Chris is a classic one - had forgotten about it but it's one of my favorites. 

 

[Cheese]

...as I've had to do with two hardened Starrets that vibrated off the table, hit the floor and were never square again.

You're exactly correct, these are cast/forged pieces of metal that when they hit the floor they're usually toast.

Like everything else in life there are pluses and minuses. My personal preference is to pick up a tool and knowing that I've not dropped it on the floor or jammed it against another item or damaged it...well then it's square...simple. My least favorite option is to second guess myself and to remember accidentally slapping the square into another solid object and wondering if the squareness has been compromised. Then it's into the test mode which just takes time and slows the process.

There have been innumerable stories told about measuring twice while cutting once yet the dimensions were still off for some reason.  [eek] [eek]

 

[Paul G]

I am holding out for the production version of the [member=9555]Chris Wong[/member] "Magic Square"

[big grin] that vid was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the details on this square.

 

[Shane Holland]

The adjustability of this square should be seen as a positive. As others have said, if you have a square that's not adjustable and it gets dropped or damaged, it's junk. With this one, you can re-calibrate the square, if needed.

Woodpeckers says this square is accurate within .008 degrees.

Shane

 

[Lettusbee]

On the bright side,this major controversy is keeping the promotion at the top of the page.  I probably would have forgotten I wanted one by now if not for that. [wink]

 

[Paul G]

The adjustability of this square should be seen as a positive. As others have said, if you have a square that's not adjustable and it gets dropped or damaged, it's junk. With this one, you can re-calibrate the square, if needed.

Woodpeckers says this square is accurate within .008 degrees.

Shane

Could you achieve .008 degree accuracy using the method prescribed in the video?

 

[Shane Holland]

Could you achieve .008 degree accuracy using the method prescribed in the video?

Could you? I'm sure you could.

I think the accuracy quoted is from the factory.

 

[RustE]

Could you achieve .008 degree accuracy using the method prescribed in the video?

Nope.  A line drawn with a pencil or a marked with a knife is much larger than the tolerances in question.

 

[Shane Holland]

If my calculations are right, .007 degree would be 1/64" over the length of the 12" square. So, you would need to dial it into within a 1/64" to get that level of accuracy.

Again, this would be only if you've knocked the square out of alignment. We're kind of talking about a worse case scenario.

From Woodpeckers, the square is going to be dialed in to their high tolerances.

 

[Shane Holland]

Apologies. You're correct, I was wrong about the decimal places on my calc.

 

[RustE]

Here's what I came up with:

TAN(0.008°) = X / (12 in.)

Solving for X yields 0.00167 in. or approximately 0.002 in. at the far end of a 12 in. span.  Keep in mind that this number is only for the stated angle accuracy, and does not account for the surface profile tolerance of the blade.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Here's what I came up with:

TAN(0.008°) = X / (12 in.)

Solving for X yields 0.00167 in. or approximately 0.002 in. at the far end of a 12 in. span.  Keep in mind that this number is only for the stated angle accuracy, and does not account for the surface profile tolerance of the blade.

Just laying it out in my CAD program I get .0059" deviation at 48". About a tenth of a sixteenth.

 

[Svar]

Here's what I came up with:
TAN(0.008°) = X / (12 in.)
Solving for X yields 0.00167 in. or approximately 0.002 in. at the far end of a 12 in. span. 

That is correct. Keep in mind that you double the deviation when you use the flip method shown. 0.002x2=0.004"=0.1mm. I can easily spot 0.1mm if marking knife or something similar is used.
[member=48572]Shane Holland[/member] should send us all coupons for popularizing this thread.  [poke]

 

[Cheese]

I just did a quick crude calculation using the commonly accepted number of approximately .018" of draft (DME mold design) per degree. So at .008º, the offset at the 1 inch level will be .000144" and at the 12" level the offset will be .001728".

That's pretty impressive if it can maintain that level of accuracy. [cool]  My only concern is the 12" lever arm that can be banged about accidentally.

 

[RustE]

Just laying it out in my CAD program I get .0059" deviation at 48". About a tenth of a sixteenth.

The calculator returns 0.0067 in. at the end of a 48 in. span.  Close enough.

Made me think though:  The OneTime Stainless Square is is not the ideal tool for someone looking to setup a track saw or other equipment.  It is better suited for layout work, because less pressure will be applied to the blade.