Woodpecker's Parallel Guide System One Time Tool

[Peter_C]

First thing to do is flip the t-slot nuts over. You will instantly gain more thread contact area.

I swapped out the screws for longer ones. See my previous post.

Since I do not like to assemble and disassemble stuff, but rather use it, I built some stops so I don't have to calibrate every time, and leave the bolts and nuts together in the systainer. Saves a lot of time, but also keeps nuts and screws from getting dropped. I put up some photos in the PGS systainer mod thread of how everything is stored. The OP of the thread came up with a nice box for holding the parts.

 

[KescoNY]

First thing to do is flip the t-slot nuts over. You will instantly gain more thread contact area.

I swapped out the screws for longer ones. See my previous post.

Since I do not like to assemble and disassemble stuff, but rather use it, I built some stops so I don't have to calibrate every time, and leave the bolts and nuts together in the systainer. Saves a lot of time, but also keeps nuts and screws from getting dropped. I put up some photos in the PGS systainer mod thread of how everything is stored. The OP of the thread came up with a nice box for holding the parts.

Thank you.
Now that I'm looking at the pictures that makes sense but when i was looking at it prior, i thought they would get wedged in the rails

 

[Scott in Bend Oregon]

These are the replacement screws I used on the Festool guide rail to Woodpeckers connection bar and body bracket...

The Hillman Group 44043 1/4-20 x 1/2-Inch Flat Socket Cap Screw, Stainless Steel

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IZFX8D8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_2&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

The 1/2" long screws replaced the 3/8" long ones supplied by Woodpeckers.  I did have to grind less than 0.5 mm (0.020") off of the length so the screw would not contact and mar the Festool rail.  Switching from 3/8" to 1/2" long screws allows for total thread engagement in the new Woodpecker mounting bar.  As reported in an earlier post the flat head of the socket head screw is very slightly proud of the red body bracket, but doesn't cause any problems..  It appears to me that if the countersink was deep enough to allow for a flush screw, it might breakout of the front side of the body bracket.

And for the other screws on the Woodpeckers body bracket T-track oval nuts...

The Hillman Group 44044 1/4-20 x 5/8-Inch Flat Socket Cap Screw, Stainless Steel

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IZFX2FC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

The 5/8" long screws replaced the 1/2" long ones supplied by Woodpeckers.  Plenty of clearance, the screw head sits flush in the countersink, no length modifications needed and the oval nuts can dangle a bit for easier installation into the WP T-track.

I attached Amazon links for reference, but I was able to find mine at my local True Value hardware store.  The Hillman assortment boxes seem to be everywhere.

 

[Peter_C]

To make it easy to find, this is the thread regarding systainer mods. 
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/woodpeckers-parallel-guide-systainer-mod/msg427925/#msg427925

The 1/2" long screws replaced the 3/8" long ones supplied by Woodpeckers.  I did have to grind less than 0.5 mm (0.020") off of the length so the screw would not contact and mar the Festool rail.

If you already have 5/8" why not just cut them off *shrugs* A 3" die grinder makes short work of them to a custom length.

The Hillman Group 44044 1/4-20 x 5/8-Inch Flat Socket Cap Screw, Stainless Steel.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IZFX2FC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

The 5/8" long screws replaced the 1/2" long ones supplied by Woodpeckers.  Plenty of clearance, the screw head sits flush in the countersink, no length modifications needed and the oval nuts can dangle a bit for easier installation into the WP T-track.

I really wished I would have gone 5/8". You made a better decision.

I attached Amazon links for reference, but I was able to find mine at my local True Value hardware store.  The Hillman assortment boxes seem to be everywhere.

I bought from Amazon, since with Prime they drop it at my front door, and I am lazy, but my neighbor down the driveway owns a True Value/Just Ask Rental, loaded with stuff the big box stores don't carry. The little Franchise stores have a lot to offer still, and are locally owed.

As reported in an earlier post the flat head of the socket head screw is very slightly proud of the red body bracket, but doesn't cause any problems..  It appears to me that if the countersink was deep enough to allow for a flush screw, it might breakout of the front side of the body bracket.

Yeah I don't see a problem with them sitting a little proud either. The TS55 REQ DOES touch the PGS head, and my two proud screws can be felt in the saw handle. It is possible the blade is getting lifted. The saw might tilt a little too. It will scratch the saw at full depth of cut, but I can't remember ever cutting at full depth ripping sheet goods, which is what I bought the PGS for.  *shrugs*

 

[Cheese]

Please do post pics as I am curious to see what you come up with. I figured a couple more holes drilled into foam straight down to hold the allen keys. Although I am also thinking a 5/32" allen bit in my little homemade t-handle jobber might be nicer.

[member=50292]Peter_C[/member]
I finally got around to finishing this up.

Originally I was going to fab up a hex wrench with a 1/8" hex key on one end and a 5/32" hex key on the other. However, as I'm keeping the PGS assembled for easy use, I decided to fab up something that would allow on-board storage for the hex keys.

I took a piece of HDPE and cut it to fit the bottom channel of the Woodpeckers rail. It's about .010"-.015" smaller in width than the channel, but .015"-.020" larger in thickness than the channel. This allows a nice tight press fit in the channel. Actually, the top leading edges of the channel will plane away the additional HDPE material allowing for a tight surface-to-surface contact.

Before inserting the HDPE part, I drilled 2 holes in the HDPE using a drill press. The hole for the 1/8" key is .140" dia and for the 5/32" key I used a .177" dia drill.

I pressed the insert in the channel and then redrilled both holes with the proper diameter drill to compensate for the tight press fit.

The net result is a very tight fit in the channel while the keys are held snugly in place. Thus, I don't have to worry about losing either the HDPE insert or the hex keys.

[attachthumb=1]

4 each stainless 316 FH screws, 1/4"-20 x 1/2" with 2 of them being shortened an additional 1/16".

[attachthumb=2]

I can now use 2 hex keys rather than having to find a clunky #3 Philips driver.

[attachthumb=3]

HDPE insert.

[attachthumb=4]

If you look closely at the top of the insert you can see the 2 slight grooves that were planed into the HDPE by the Woodpeckers channel.

[attachthumb=5]

The hex keys can be pushed in further so that they just allow room for a finger or thumb underneath for easy removal.

 

[Gwerner]

Is anyone else still waiting on their new mounting bars?

 

[Jeff Zanin]

I receivied my parallel guide system and had a chance to try it yesterday.  I have the metric version in systainer with the new style mounting bars and am using it with the TS-75.

Like everything else there is a bit of a learning curve, the instructions are not great but not bad.

As with any other piece of equipment connections and adjustments need to be secure.  When removing the components from the systainer there are 20 things that need to be adjusted and checked before making a cut.  What were they thinking when they used bolts that require a #3 Phillips?  I still haven't found one.

Somewhat ironically I had the parallel guide systainer sitting on top of my table saw while I was setting it up and testing it on the MFT.  After getting it working and making some cuts I decided to try the same cuts on the table saw, which is a Bosch 4000 with Sharkguard connected to a ShopVac.

I did a very subjective comparison based on ripping 10mm strips in 18mm plywood.  I chose 10mm because it is the minimum on the parallel guide scale.

Portability:  The parallel guide systainer + rail + TS75 is a bit more portable but you still need some sort of work surface, so although the table saw is bulkier and heavier than any of the individual pieces I suspect the overall effort required to transport the two systems would be similar.  Also I have the old model Bosch 4000 with the plain steel stand, certainly the newer 4100 with the gravity rise stand would be easier to move around.

Dust control: The TS-75 + CT-22 provided better dust control.

Ease of setup: Obviously the table saw is much easier to set up, no need to assemble & calibrate everything for each use then disassemble for storage / transport.  If you can keep the parallel guide system assembled on a rail (likely in a fixed location or perhaps with a dedicated shelf to hold it in a vehicle) this would save some time, but I suspect you would want to at least check the fasteners and maybe the calibration before making a cut.

Safety/Convenience: For ripping narrow pieces I think the TS-75 + parallel guides is safer.  Likely the same for ripping large (1220x2440mm) panels, at least compared to a small saw like the Bosch 4000.  For cuts on panels between 300-900mm there is not much advantage either way.

So far I am satisfied with the parallel guide system and will be using it for a number of projects, and likely it will become easier to use effectively with a bit more experience.

But I will be keeping the the table saw.

 

[Rufnek100]

This isn't specifically related to most of the conversation regarding the tool and recent fix, but I was looking for feedback on another related issue. I received my PGS recently and since I didn't want one black Systainer in my stack of grey / green units (OCD, right) I opted for the "no case" version with  the intention of plopping it into a separately purchased Systainer 1. Lo and behold the foam is fit for the cardboard box, not a Systainer (I just assumed the foam would be the same for either set with or without the Systainer, but that was pure speculation on my part).

Has anyone else modified the "no case" foam to fit a stock Systainer 1? From the pictures I've seen some minor foam cutting would make it work, but wanted to check and see if anyone else has done this same exercise - my concern is that the cutout spacing may be different and I'll end up with foam that isn't good for either (box / sys). The alternative might be to contact the supplier and see if I can swap the foam, but I'm guessing this may not be an option due to the single run nature of the product.

But FWIW I ordered mine from Toolnut and it showed up with the aforementioned supplemental attachment bars already in the box and am looking forward to setting it up. Thanks!

 

[crampedshop]

I tried cutting and reshaping the cardboard container foam to fit a systainer. If i recall there were multiple layers of the stiff foam. I made a template of the inside of a sustainer and started cutting the foam layer by layer. I got through about two layers and then came to a layer or two of normal soft foam, which I found difficult to cut and gave up. Since I had not cut through all the layers of foam at that point, I was still able to fit it back in the original box where it still sits. If you come up with a method that works, I would love to hear how you did it.

 

[Rufnek100]

Thanks for the feedback, looks like I'm not the only one that had the issue. I have performed similar operations with foam inserts on gun cases and I use an electric kitchen knife to cut the foam, which works very well. I was planning on using the same method and I'll post how it goes - the PGS foam is a bit stiffer than what I'm used to dealing with, but it ought to work okay.

 

[mike_aa]

[member=30505]crampedshop[/member]

[member=31016]Rufnek100[/member]

Scroll down to the bottom of the Festool Carvex Blade Selector and you will see a serrated blade for the Carvex that is designed for cutting foam rubber and other materials.

Mike A.

 

[Peter_C]

I hacked my systainer foam all up and found it to be super easy. All I used was a regular ole' razor blade. Can't help on layout since my cardboard box foam only holds the rails for the metric version and no other parts.

 

[Df1k1]

I use this forum a lot and have learned A LOT.  From my observations most of you are accomplished woodworkers.

I've finally gotten a chance to use my PGS and I thought I'd use this as an opportunity to discuss strengths and weaknesses from a NOVICE wood worker point of view (so go easy all you pros. Who, again, I"ve learned a lot from on this forum)

I have been following this thread closely but since I hadn't yet used the tool it was tough to appreciate what the original issue was (Main Body Bracket not seating  correctly on the saw track).  But, having proceeded to get my new bracket fixture (Woodpeckers fix to this) I set out to use it.

Fit, finish and packaging was first rate.  Everything fit closely in the systainer (as some have mentioned a little too closely, more on this shortly).  I laid out all the parts and l was really impressed with the machining.

The problem started however with the instructions (pretty flimsy for a tool that set me back almost $400 with tax.)  I started out installing the bracket fixture (the "fix") first and promptly used the wrong screws.  To the naked eye all the screws looked the same.  Maybe my fault for not reading all the instructions first but really, who does that? [big grin] I then installed the main body bracket to the saw track, per the "fix" instructions. 2nd mistake.  Its pretty tough to build the PGS with the main body brackets attached to the track. OK, no problem took them off, figured out there were two different size screws and started to build the PGS.

This is where the frustration really kicked in. Attaching the main body brackets to the arm was a little challenging.  As others noted the screws attaching the oval nuts barely, and I mean barely, grab enough to slide the main body bracket onto the PGS rail track. Tighten too much and it won't slide on. Too loose and the oval nut falls off (happened a number of times and I spent too much time searching for the nut that had fallen on the floor). The marketing video for the PGS shows the nipple of the oval nut up (towards the main body bracket ) and the instructions on page 3 would indicate it down.  Tried both ways and both were a little frustrating and neither worked that well.  For those who have yet to try this I'd suggest that once you get the main body brackets attached to the arm tighten immediately.  Then back the screw out, but just barely.

OK, time to calibrate. From the manual "align the front face of the left Flip Stop at the 14 5/8" mark on the top scale and the right Flip Stop at the 11 5/8" and tighten them to the track". Uh, which is left and which is right? What front face? Inside track or out side track"  If your not familiar with Woodpeckers flip stop this is pretty confusing. A review of the marketing video cleared it up.

Time to calibrate per instructions.  But...calibrate what?  I didn't get it.  What and why was I calibrating?  I don't mind following directions but give me a reason why I'm doing this.  Again a quick look at the video cleared up the logistics, but not the reason.

Time to use it.  Set it up for a 27 inch cut and it was dead on.

So, my bottom line is this: First: I'm not sure I should have ordered the systainer.  If you have the room, its much easier to keep it assembled.  But, if you're a pro in the field it makes sense.  But good luck getting it back in the systainer (should have taken a picture as I"m still trying to figure out how to get the flip stops in).  Second: The manual, in my opinion, is horrible.  There are some other issues with it that I contacted Woodpeckers about.  I'm not going to point it out as it would look snarky and petty.  Third: The oval nuts that attach to the main body bracket are challenging to say the least, but hopefully they'll become easier with time.

Finally, I don't have anything else to compare it to (Festool PGS, Seneca, etc) but in the long run I think it'll be ok.  I'm not ready to trade in my SawStop but it will make breaking sheet goods down a little easier.  If Woodpeckers can figure out the oval nut/screw situation and improve the manual they'll have a winner.

 

[Peter_C]

No reason to worry about experience or skill level. Don't pay much attention to negative responses and learn from the more prominent positive responses you will get The beauty of forums is we can all share and learn together. I know I learn a lot in reading them.

I do strongly suggest replacing the screws with 5/8" for the body. If you have a way to cut the 2 screws shorter it would be easier to switch them all to hex head screws. The parts needed are listed in prior posts, and readily available from multiple sources. Run the t-nuts pointed up.

Calibration is needed in order to set a zero point for the PGS. Calibration is very easy, but needs to be done EVERY time the head is disconnected from the Woodpeckers t-track. Of course you could mark the t-track so it can be taken apart and put back together without calibration. Although if perfection was needed I would calibrate every time.

Looking at the stops during calibration it looks as though the front stop location does not matter, as it is the rear stop that is used for calibration. Anyone see a reason the front stop would be important? Well other than spreading the distance between them for deflection.

If someone doesn't want to store their PGS in the systainer, I am sure they can find a good use for the systainer holding other tools or materials. We all paid fair market value for the systainers.

 

[Df1k1]

Thanks peter. I'm sure the more I use it the more comfortable I'll become with it. appreciate the feedback

 

[Cheese]

So, my bottom line is this: First: I'm not sure I should have ordered the systainer.  If you have the room, its much easier to keep it assembled.

I have Systainers for everything and when I order from Woodpeckers I always pay extra for the Systainer...except this time. I agree with you...it is much easier to keep it assembled. 20 minutes to assemble and then another 25 minutes to disassemble and store/package is not my definition of convenience.

I think if a person needs to take this equipment on a plane and fly around the world, the Systainer makes a lot of sense, otherwise, das macht nichts.
I keep mine assembled and can strap them to my motorcycle, wheelbarrow or lawnmower if needed.

 

[Df1k1]

Thought I'd post a quick update on my use of the PGS system.  First though, I thought I'd mention that I heard from Richard Hummel the CEO of Woodpeckers less than 12 hours later re the manual.  As far as customer service goes, pretty stand up guy and company in my opinion.

After ripping a clean edge and using the PGS with the FS 2700 track to rip a sheet of baltic birch, I switched tracks to the 1400 for a cross cut and only double checked the calibration (in other words I didn't do a full blown calibration.  I left the Main Body Brackets attached to the arms and just double checked that they still touched the block of wood that I used as my reference stop).  Seemed awfully close.

After cross cutting I did a diagonal measurement.  1064mm x 1065mm without calibrating to the new track. 

All in all I'm pretty happy.  For me, I'll keep most of the stuff in the systainer, and keep the Main Body Brackets fully attached to the first arm of the PGS and hang them some where.  No idea how this will work (not calibrating again) when it comes to ripping thinner strips, but I don't see that in the immediate future.

Oh yea, and I threw a #3 Phillips in the systainer as well until I get around to changing out the screws!

 

[Gwerner]

[member=4284]rmh[/member] and [member=34727]Zeusman[/member] , can you please give us an update on how the shipments of the new brackets is going for those of us that ordered the PGS direct from you?

 

[lunchman]

RE: Calibration.

After doing it once, I find it pretty much unnecessary afterwards. Once I determined where the Woodpecker rail sits in relation to the attachment head, simply memorize that number, set the rail and tighten the screws at that setting.

To double check, I place my Woodpecker 1281 square at some mark on the scale, which allows me to pull a tape measure from the splinter guard parallel to the Woodpecker scales and get an accurate measurement to the leg of the square.  If the tape measure and scale both show the same measurement I'm good to go.

I think sliding the rods into the stops and screwing on the ends to do calibration is too time consuming. I'd rather just use the tape measure method from the splinter guard out to some arbitary distance. Of course if I ever replace the splinter guard I'll recalibrate.

I recently cut a good number of shelves for cabinets I'm building and they were spot on. It's nice having every piece turn out exactly the same. I know I couldn't have gotten that same accuracy by measuring and placing a track on pencil marks.

-Dom

 

[jimbo51]

I called Woodpecker a few days ago about getting my replacement parts. The fellow was surprised that I had not received mine. He said that the parts would be mailed right away. If you ordered directly from Woodpecker and have not received yours yet, you should give them a call.