Woodpeckers router bit?

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member]  I was just searching the WP website, looking for availability on the new joinery sled, when I stumbled upon the new Variable helix router bits. There is quite a selection of sizes, even an adaptor for 3/8" to 1/2", since very few people have actual 3/8" collets.
I started to PM you about this, but being on the Festool site, where far more people might be inclined to agree......why no 8mm?
There is a 5/16" cut diameter, but it has the 3/8" shank.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Sadly, the 8mm bits we have released haven't generated much in the way of volume. Enough to not be discontinued, but not enough to generate excitement about further development.

 

[box185]

The PantoRouter is well suited to using metric bits since the tool itself is metric centric. The WP variable helix bits are a great idea, but sadly only available in imperial sizes.

 

[jeffinsgf]

The PantoRouter is well suited to using metric bits since the tool itself is metric centric. The WP variable helix bits are a great idea, but sadly only available in imperial sizes.

These bits were developed in cooperation with PantoRouter. While Mack encourages measuring project components in metric, the mortise and tenon templates are optimized for fractional router bits. Even the conversion chart that shows you the effect of using smaller diameter bits on tenon size is completely fractional...no metric option in sight. Just to be sure I wasn't mistaken, I just went through the entire owners manual from front to back and there is not one mention of metric router bits. Metric bearings, metric dimensions, metric threads...yes. Metric router bits...no.

 

[box185]

The PantoRouter is well suited to using metric bits since the tool itself is metric centric. The WP variable helix bits are a great idea, but sadly only available in imperial sizes.

These bits were developed in cooperation with PantoRouter. While Mack encourages measuring project components in metric, the mortise and tenon templates are optimized for fractional router bits. Even the conversion chart that shows you the effect of using smaller diameter bits on tenon size is completely fractional...no metric option in sight. Just to be sure I wasn't mistaken, I just went through the entire owners manual from front to back and there is not one mention of metric router bits. Metric bearings, metric dimensions, metric threads...yes. Metric router bits...no.

All true, but the tool itself is completely metric. Imperial tenons are made with imperial bits and this is only possible because of the taper on the outer side of the templates.

 

[WillAdams]

Sadly, the 8mm bits we have released haven't generated much in the way of volume. Enough to not be discontinued, but not enough to generate excitement about further development.

Have you considered releasing tooling w/o bearings and intended for CNC usage?

The smaller tools came up on the Carbide 3D community forums, and I just posted about the one 8mm tool I'm interested in at:
https://community.carbide3d.com/t/woodpeckers-offering-8mm-shaft-router-bits/88479

 

[Crazyraceguy]

With 8mm it's a distinction without a difference. 5/16" is equal to .3125" and 8mm = .3149"
It may not seem like the bigger size is that much better than 1/4" bits, but it does matter., especially in the longer lengths. 

 

[jeffinsgf]

With 8mm it's a distinction without a difference. 5/16" is equal to .3125" and 8mm = .3149"
It may not seem like the bigger size is that much better than 1/4" bits, but it does matter., especially in the longer lengths.

Case in point is dovetail bits. I've never had a dovetail bit that cut as smoothly as the Festool 8mm shank dovetail bit. 1/4" shank dovetails bark and chatter. 8mm is smoooooth. I beat the 8mm drum here at work for a long time, but there just aren't enough Festool owners to generate enough sales in the domestic market, and as it stands now Festool is the only router in the U.S. that widely offers an 8mm collet. Yes, I know there are a couple others that you can get...if you know about it and are invested enough to hunt them down. Even among Festool owners...unless you're a FOG loving devotee, you may just look at that extra collet in the box and wonder what the heck that's for...too big for 1/4 and not big enough for 1/2.  [blink]

 

[MikeGE]

This thread appears to be a North American issue and geography makes a difference for the international membership.  Based on my observations in Europe, the 8mm shank is the most common size for router cutters.  The 12mm shank is the next common size.

The cutters that come with the Canadian-made Leigh D4R Dovetail Jig have 8mm and 1/2-inch shanks.  The Leigh kit also has a collet reducer so the 8mm cutters can be used in a 1/2-inch router. 

 

[mattgam]

it took A LOT of hunting but I managed to get an 8mm collet for my Milwaukee trim router and I've bought a lot of the 8mm options Woodpeckers has.  I prefer 8mm as well for my shaper but it is hard to find sanely priced endmills in the US.  Thanks for fighting the good fight to get 8mm supported Jeff

 

[rmhinden]

Case in point is dovetail bits. I've never had a dovetail bit that cut as smoothly as the Festool 8mm shank dovetail bit. 1/4" shank dovetails bark and chatter. 8mm is smoooooth. I beat the 8mm drum here at work for a long time, but there just aren't enough Festool owners to generate enough sales in the domestic market, and as it stands now Festool is the only router in the U.S. that widely offers an 8mm collet.

I agree about 8mm router bits.  I think I have purchased all of the ones you offer.

Not sure what the number are, but Shaper Origin also supports 8mm shank router bits.

Bob

 

[jeffinsgf]

it took A LOT of hunting but I managed to get an 8mm collet for my Milwaukee trim router and I've bought a lot of the 8mm options Woodpeckers has.  I prefer 8mm as well for my shaper but it is hard to find sanely priced endmills in the US.  Thanks for fighting the good fight to get 8mm supported Jeff

Would you share where you found that? The Milwaukee trim router is just behind the 1000 and 1400 as my 3rd "go-to".

 

[Rick Herrick]

Would you share where you found that? The Milwaukee trim router is just behind the 1000 and 1400 as my 3rd "go-to".

Have you tried these guys?  I did this dance several years ago when I needed Dewalt 8mm collets and I think this company had lots of options.
https://elairecorp.com/

 

[box185]

The PantoRouter is well suited to using metric bits since the tool itself is metric centric. The WP variable helix bits are a great idea, but sadly only available in imperial sizes.

These bits were developed in cooperation with PantoRouter.

All true, but the tool itself is completely metric. Imperial tenons are made with imperial bits and this is only possible because of the taper on the outer side of the templates.

Mac mentioned that WP is also collaborating on a router for the PantoRouter tool. With so many collets available ( see previous post ), how is a new router going to distinguish itself?

 

[HighlandMarine]

Sadly, the 8mm bits we have released haven't generated much in the way of volume. Enough to not be discontinued, but not enough to generate excitement about further development.

I preordered the 8mm clearing bit set for the Shaper and they’re incredible! Also great value. I’ve been checking the site periodically checking for more 8mm since too.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I had another though about this, which might revolve around the shanks themselves.
The typical spiral end mill style bits have the flutes cut from cylinder, of the same diameter. It's a solid single piece of carbide.
The 8mm shank Woodpeckers bits that I recall (off the top of my head) are steel shank, with brazed carbide "heads". They are larger diameter than the shank itself. Maybe that has something to do with it? As in, they don't stock solid carbide blanks?

 

[mattgam]

it took A LOT of hunting but I managed to get an 8mm collet for my Milwaukee trim router and I've bought a lot of the 8mm options Woodpeckers has.  I prefer 8mm as well for my shaper but it is hard to find sanely priced endmills in the US.  Thanks for fighting the good fight to get 8mm supported Jeff

Would you share where you found that? The Milwaukee trim router is just behind the 1000 and 1400 as my 3rd "go-to".

Jeff this may give a bit of sticker shock but literally the only place I found these was in the UKhttps://www.sparepartsworld.co.uk/product/4931479477

I picked up 2 and they came in a reasonable amount of time and work perfectly.  Been a game changer being able to run 8mm endmills.  I'm still working on getting festool level dust collection which will be the holy grail. I've found some decent 3d printed bases but dust control isn't a a huge priority in the after market space (feel free to smack the woodpeckers engineers to improve the various base options you guys sell to include dust collection!

I saw another comment on collets from elaire but I couldn't find any that fit the trim router. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I've found some decent 3d printed bases but dust control isn't a a huge priority in the after market space (feel free to smack the woodpeckers engineers to improve the various base options you guys sell to include dust collection!

I saw another comment on collets from elaire but I couldn't find any that fit the trim router.

The thing with dust extraction on routers, is that it essentially has to be designed-in from the beginning. The aftermarket has way too many different models to choose from. If you wanted to try it, which ones would be a hit?
The chip deflector on the Festool routers really only works because of the controlled airflow around the bit. If you figured out a way to attach one to some other router, it wouldn't work as well.

Elaire seems to go pretty heavy into a few models and ignores quite a few too. They have them for the full sized Milwaukee, not on the trimmer (at least the last time I looked)

 

[mattgam]

Elaire seems to go pretty heavy into a few models and ignores quite a few too. They have them for the full sized Milwaukee, not on the trimmer (at least the last time I looked)

To save future people the digging, the Full size collets are at https://elairecorp.com/product-category/milwaukee-style-48-66-1010-router-collets/

 

[jeffinsgf]

Elaire seems to go pretty heavy into a few models and ignores quite a few too. They have them for the full sized Milwaukee, not on the trimmer (at least the last time I looked)

Might be because the factory one for the Milwaukee trim router is pretty darn good.