Woodrat/Routerboss and Festool routers

[Gabriel]

Hi.
I've just received my new Routerboss jig, an American improved version of the Woodrat which is best designed to fit with Dewalt 625 router.
I have to buy a more powerful router and I want to buy the OF1400 or the OF2200 (I am definitely turning all my equipment to Festool: TS55, MFT/3, RO150 and so on).
The problem is that Festool routers' design does not fit the "plunge bars". Does anybody have experience in using Festool routers with the Woodrat? Is it usable directly without the plunge bar?
Thanks (from Madrid)!
Gabriel

 

[extiger]

Gabriel, I own a WoodRat and even though I have an OF1400, my WoodRat is powered by a DeWalt 625. There was a posting on the UK WoodRat forum from a fellow in Germany who cobbled together a mount to accept the Festool router. Just in looking at it, I wouldn't try it. Why go to all that trouble, which in the end, only ties up an exceptional portable WWing machine in a kind of a 'horse and buggy harness'?

To do so is really misusing your Festool. Just buy a cheap second router lou can afford to bolt down.

Gary Curtis

 

[Gabriel]

Thank you, Extiger. I think I'll follow your suggestion: one cheaper router, fixed on the RouterBoss, and wait to buy the OF 1400 (a third router...).
I had seen the German "plunge-bar", yes, with its weird wheel on the OF 1400 body...  I was doubting only because some brands cost 3 times in Europe what they cost in the US (everything is more expensive, but you can buy a Dewalt 625 for 270$ in the US and it will cost me the equivalent to 750$ in Europe..., almost what the OF 1400 costs).

 

[extiger]

It seems you are in Spain. So, if the DeWalt 625 is too expensive even on eBay, then buy a used Elu 3338 from Switzerland. The DeWalt is an exact  copy.

My feeling is that the Festool is just too good a piece of equipment to waste by mounting it in the RouterBoss, or in a router table, for that matter.

Even though the Festool machines are becoming so popular, the WoodRat company in England seems to have problems when they try to modernize. The plungebar is only made of two pieces of bent rod, I don't expect that WoodRat will design and produce new versions of Plungebars to fit more machines. Since you have the Router Boss, perhaps the Craftsman Gallery in the ESU (USA)might expand their line of products.

Buena Suerte, y escribe otra vez

Gary
California Norte

 

[gkeas]

If they are available in your region, I highly recommend the Triton series of routers.  I have a 2 1/4 hp mounted in my table, but I may pick up the 3 at some point for larger bits.

 

[greg mann]

One of the plungebars (C?) fits the OF2000. It may fit the OF2200 but this seems like overkill to me. That is a lot more router than you need, although its great dust collection would be a plus.

 

[extiger]

Greg, the dust collection apparatus on a Festool would interfere with chuck & bit clearance because of the router plate. There more be a larger gap in the Router Boss. Haven't seen a RouterBoss.

When you say the Festool is too much router for this use, do you refer to the hp rating of the 2200/2000 machines? Because the DeWalt in my WoodRat is a 3.5 hp unit. And that power is needed.

That's because the WoodRat enables aggressive cuts not possible by other means. The work is securely clamped, while the router is mounted solidly. None of that nibbling away in 1/16" increments. I make 1/2" cuts all the time in perfect safety. And with minimum tearout.

Gary Curtis

 

[Gabriel]

I've finally ordered the Dewalt 625 because the Router Boss plate is predrilled for it. I asked my dealer about getting the old Festool big-router (the OF 2000) but it seems that, differently to Makita and other dealers that continue selling old models, Festool stops selling a model when a new and better one appears in the market. I had a look also at others (a Maffell 2,6 Kw router), but opted for Extiger's suggestion. The Elu and the Trend, which seem to be identical to the Dewalt, are difficult to get in continental Europe. The CMT router, which is exactly the Dewalt 626, is a 50% more expensive here than the Dewalt.
I'll upload photos of the Router Boss when I have it fully installed and working. It seems to have good dust collection, from behind the cutter and from below.
Anyway, thank you for your comments, and my admiration for the "American way" of sharing knowledge. It seems that there are no woodworkers using the internet in Spain (yet).

 

[Tinker]

I've finally ordered the Dewalt 625 because the Router Boss plate is predrilled for it. I asked my dealer about getting the old Festool big-router (the OF 2000) but it seems that, differently to Makita and other dealers that continue selling old models, Festool stops selling a model when a new and better one appears in the market. I had a look also at others (a Maffell 2,6 Kw router), but opted for Extiger's suggestion. The Elu and the Trend, which seem to be identical to the Dewalt, are difficult to get in continental Europe. The CMT router, which is exactly the Dewalt 626, is a 50% more expensive here than the Dewalt.
I'll upload photos of the Router Boss when I have it fully installed and working. It seems to have good dust collection, from behind the cutter and from below.
Anyway, thank you for your comments, and my admiration for the "American way" of sharing knowledge. It seems that there are no woodworkers using the internet in Spain (yet).

I would be interested in some performance problems with Router Boss.
I have a Rat that I got in 1997 or 98.  I do like working with it for many different operations.
I have the DW 625 permanently anchored on top. 

My major problem, and the main reason I don't use it a lot more often is dust collection, or rather lack thereof.
It works fine for DT's, box joints or any cuts where the bit sends chips & dust directly into that tiny channel behind the cut.
I have even used it as a jointer for stock up to about 2.5 ft in length.
That was before I got my ATF 55 with several guide plates which can be locked together for almost any length straightedge.
There is almost no way, without cumbersome floor mounted collection, to capture the debris if the bit is to the operator's side of the wood.
If plowing out a dado running lengthwise, be prepared to cleanup the whole shop.

The other item I will beinterested in hearing (reading) about is the stability of the base plate when setting it for an angled dado cut.
In the adds and on the ChipsFly website, it just does not look stable.  Will it sag with the weight of the router when you angle it like that.

If RB has solved the above problems, then I would say it is probably a great tool.
I wish you luck and fun with your new toy
Tinker

 

[Gabriel]

Thanks, Tinker. I promise info about dust collection and stability as soon as I have the system installed...

 

[extiger]

Tinker, rather than buying a new machine, what kind of capacity does your DC have? In CFM or hp. Or, do you use a shopvac.

I ask this because my WR does ok connected to a 1.5hp DC. Sure, with the bit cutting on the front side of a board, the airstream is blocked. You can see a solution to this on ALDEL's WR website. Simple pvc drain-pipe connectors route the dust from the front to the back and into the DC. The appliance could be made for about $10 and take less than 20 minutes to fabricate.

Good luck,

Gary Curtis

 

[Tinker]

I am using a CT 22.  As long as I am cutting on the dust chute side, the DC is ok.  In fact there is no problem.
When cutting away from the chute, there is a problem.  i have solved that to an partial extent by mounting a dust hose underneath the router plate.
There is almost no way to relieve if i am plowing a dado or groove down the middle of a board.  The dust chutes out like a jet.

Also, when using the "ladder", the cut is far enough away from the chute that a lot of it lands on the floor. (I have tool shelves mounted underneath the Rat and a lot of dust builds up real sudden there.  I have thought of hooking up my PennState 1hp but the lag between starting up the router and full vac power from the DC is quite bothersome.  To leave the DC running steady while working with the Rat will take a lot more expense in electricity than I care to spend. 

The method I am currently using is to get what I can with the CT 22 and the rest is with the good old energy saving armstrong powered bristled utensil coupled with sheet metal collection device.  Five minutes after each use takes care of even what spreads around on walls and other areas far from beyond the usual expectations.

Tinker 

 

[extiger]

I don't believe a shopvac is adequate. By using a 1200cfm DC, I only get a light deposit of dust directly under the WR. I cut sliding dovetails into some 4x4 Doug Fir. Sixteen of them done this way, with dovetails on 3 sides. The timbers were clamped to the baseplate pointing straight out and supported by a portable stand.

That's about 40 dovetail sockets. Minimal dust. If I were doing a lot of work with the wood between the cutter and the machine, I would consider that little fix on Aldel's website. You shouldn't have to live like a Neanderthal because of having the WoodRat.

Gary Curtis ???

 

[Tinker]

Thanks Gary,
I have not checked Aldel's website for a long time.  I do recall he had something rigged up for DC.
I will give your idea of the larger DC a try.  If it does work out, I will see if i can rig up something in the wiring and switches so I don't have to walk (stumble) across the shop to turn on and off.  A switch right at the Rat might be possible. 

For what it is worth, I think the Rat works in with Festool routing very nicely.  There are a lot of problems that cannot be set up easilly with the Festool system that are very quickly (well, some setups are quick) with the Rat.  There are other problems impossible with the Rat that are very simple with my OF 1000 and/or my OF 1400. 

Tinker

 

[Tinker]

Gary, I have just gone thru Alden's site and do not find how he does his Dc from the front of the Rat.
He has a setup for the newer Rat off the back, but that is not the area of my problem.  I have set up differntly as I have an earlier version.

If you could give me the title of his display showing the front control, it would help.
Thanks
Tinker

 

[extiger]

Send an email asking about the DC modification to the webmaster. It's there, somewhere. Buried. For about $30, you can buy one of those remote switches for routers that has an auto-switching outlet for a DC. The long cord may be a pain, but you'll avoid walking through no-man's land.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Thank you, Extiger. I think I'll follow your suggestion: one cheaper router, fixed on the RouterBoss, and wait to buy the OF 1400 (a third router...).
I had seen the German "plunge-bar", yes, with its weird wheel on the OF 1400 body...  I was doubting only because some brands cost 3 times in Europe what they cost in the US (everything is more expensive, but you can buy a Dewalt 625 for 270$ in the US and it will cost me the equivalent to 750$ in Europe..., almost what the OF 1400 costs).

Gabriel,

Can you find a "Festool Friend" who is coming to Europe to bring you a Dewalt 625?  That price differential is shocking.  I know you also have to be concerned with import taxes but they cannot be that much.  Until early 2008 I used to regularly travel to Germany occasionally to France on business.  Sorry that I no longer do.

Dave R.

 

[Gabriel]

Thank you, Dave. I've already oredered it here. That's the way things are. There is also the voltage issue (110V-220V) and the warranty, so I've decided long ago to pay double for everything (Festool prices are also almost double in Europe).

 

[Tinker]

Gabrial,
I have looked over the sites showing the RB.  I do like their idea for DC in front of the router.  One respndent, Gary, above suggested also that a 1-1/2hp DC will work much better than a shop vac type (ct 22 or ct33) in my case.  Even using the CT's with that front mounted pickup might be an improvement over what we have with the Rat.  I have lived with the dc problems for so long, any idea is an improvement.  I still see no way to capture what shoots off to either side when ploughing out a lengthwise dado. Not even with the RB

Another concern I have had, and did ask about in my first post about the RB is the stability of the mounting plate when turned to an angle. I have struggled with remembering to push the router all the way to back of the Rat and forget when I am expecting to come back to work later and using the router pulled out front beyond the Rat frame.  I am already on my second plate as the first one has developed a slight sag.  I guess I thought it would last forever.  The fiber plate is just not strong enough to handle the weight of DW 625 in that way.  Probably not any router for that matter.  I have put a screw hook into the floorjoists above to hold the plate flat when I am not using the Rat.  However, I am assuming that the new plate will eventually sag from normal use without such support.  The support string only gets in the way while using the machine.  I have recently (after getting into this discussion) looked back on Alden's sight and have discovered I am not the only one who has had to wrestle with the problem of less than 90? angle between Rat frame and router plate.  Evidently, the problem is not all from sag.

on further inspection of the Chipsfly site, i have discovered the plate on the RB to be of anodized aluminum.  I think that very possible eliminates the problem of sag, at no matter what angle to the frame the plate might be rotated.  I have a project coming up where I was planning to justify getting a Dominoe.  I was planning to make some louvered sliding doors using the Dominoe to cut the mortices.  My interrest suddenly has shifted to the RB for just such a project.  It would be cheaper than the Dominoe with much greater versatility for my shop. Maybe not as quick for the project, but I think more usable for my situation. Also, more stable than the Rat. I will need to give more thought to this.

I am anxiously awaiting your report(s)
Tinker

 

[extiger]

Tinker, perhaps the illustrations I saw was not on Aldel's site, but on the official WoodRat Forum. The fellow who designed the FRONT dust collector for the WoodRat was Dave Richards. Super simple, and using only neighborhood hardware store parts. It is essentially 4" rain gutter PVC drain pipe and elbows that tap the suction coming into the bottom of the WR and routing it through the channel sideways, the out the channel and to the side and underneath where it won't interfere with the wood being cut.

Wonderful Sketchup computer illustration that clarifies everything with just one glance.

gary