Would you buy this sander from Festool?

[Ken Nagrod]

Open for global voting on this one.

If Festool combined the DTS400 with the RTS400 with the NAINA RS300 so the pads interchanged would you buy this sander?  The RS300 uses a pad size very common for rectangular orbital sanders in N.A. 3 2/3" x 7".

[ edited to include poll question - Shane ]

Thanks for the help, Shane!

 

[Timtool]

probably yes, i already don't understand why the rts and dts 400 already are two different sanders, while it appears that only the pad is different. maybe the pads are interchangeable?
the RS 300 seems to be in a different power/stroke range although i don't have the numbers. more like a general use orbital sander, while the RTS and DTS are finish palm sanders.

depending on the supposed price of this hybrid set, it may actually be more interesting to just get the RO 90.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

probably yes, i already don't understand why the rts and dts 400 already are two different sanders, while it appears that only the pad is different. maybe the pads are interchangeable?
the RS 300 seems to be in a different power/stroke range although i don't have the numbers. more like a general use orbital sander, while the RTS and DTS are finish palm sanders.

depending on the supposed price of this hybrid set, it may actually be more interesting to just get the RO 90.

Tim,

I'm working on this project as we speak in Festool's secret underground laboratory in Gesundheit, Germany, near the overpowering city of Cologne.  I'm trying my best to keep the price quite reasonable.

You'll notice hanging vertically to right of me is the new anti-kinking, anti-static, anti-gravity hose for the upcoming CT48.  I can't take credit for that.  It's Rick Christopherson's disc design based on his Frisbee theory of molecular dirt motion.

Don't think I don't notice him behind the barrel.  Somebody let Brice in.

 

[fdengel]

I'm not voting because I personally don't have a need for anything like this right now, but I just wanted to add that I like the concept.

Why have three sanders when you can do the same things with one?

(Unless you have two people helping you, that is...)

 

[VictorL]

Common folks this is really good sander. This model lies somewhere between RTS400, RS-2(RS200), DX93 and DTS400. Sander accepts H&L sandpaper and regular sandpaper. It has different pads and accessories.

The link is here:

http://www.festool.com/EN/Products/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?pid=567848&name=RUTSCHER-RS-300-EQ-Set

Some specs:
A multi-talent.
• Different interchangeable sanding pads for an extremely wide range of applications
• Ergonomic shape ensures non-tiring work, even on vertical surfaces and work overhead
• Electronics integrated in the housing, a sturdy bearing, secure oscillators and a high tear-resistant MPE sanding pad ensure a long service life and high economic efficiency
Main applications
• Sanding surfaces and corners in one working procedure
• Sanding louvres with a special pad
• Light sanding of varnish, paint, wood and plastic
• Sanding natural woods and veneer prior to varnishing
• Light sanding of varnished surfaces
• Light sanding of mineral materials
• Special applications

Technical data
Power consumption 280 W
Speed 4000-10000 min-1
Sanding stroke 2,4 mm
Interchangeable sanding pad 93 x 175 mm
Connection Ø d/e 27 mm
Weight 2,3 kg

Some pictures"
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]

Some pads
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]

 

[Les]

Since the RS400 and the DS 400 pads were interchangeable some years back, don't think there is much of a chance getting Festool to change the RTS and DTS pads making them interchangeable. Festool made a conscience decision to make them non interchangeable.

It looks like the Victor's option could be the only viable option.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I discussed with the Festool service department the possibility of using one sander (either DTS400 or RTS400) and having multiple pads to interchange.  I was told it can be done, easily and relatively fast.  You would first have to remove the swaged band clamp around the rubber seal replacing it with a large hose clamp when reassembling and get the other pad + pad base mount.  Of course it's not as quick as removing and installing pads on something like the RO series, but it can still be accomplished within a minute or two and save you the cost of a second sander.  You'd only have to buy 3 parts, all of which are available from Festool.  When an RTS or DTS comes in for service, the swaged band clamp is replaced with the screw type large hose clamp, like those used on radiator hoses, just larger.

 

[jonny round boy]

I discussed with the Festool service department the possibility of using one sander (either DTS400 or RTS400) and having multiple pads to interchange.  I was told it can be done, easily and relatively fast.  You would first have to remove the swaged band clamp around the rubber seal replacing it with a large hose clamp when reassembling and get the other pad + pad base mount.  Of course it's not as quick as removing and installing pads on something like the RO series, but it can still be accomplished within a minute or two and save you the cost of a second sander.  You'd only have to buy 3 parts, all of which are available from Festool.  When an RTS or DTS comes in for service, the swaged band clamp is replaced with the screw type large hose clamp, like those used on radiator hoses, just larger.

Ken,

The possibility of doing this was discussed at length here a few years ago. IIRC, it was confirmed by Festool that doing this would invalidate the tool warranty. Someone with a better memory than me may be able to coroborate this...

 

[Ken Nagrod]

There was no warning about violating the tool warranty doing this.  You're not taking apart the tool per se, just swapping parts that are external and are OEM to both sanders.

 

[RONWEN]

I discussed with the Festool service department the possibility of using one sander (either DTS400 or RTS400) and having multiple pads to interchange.  I was told it can be done, easily and relatively fast.  You would first have to remove the swaged band clamp around the rubber seal replacing it with a large hose clamp when reassembling and get the other pad + pad base mount.  Of course it's not as quick as removing and installing pads on something like the RO series, but it can still be accomplished within a minute or two and save you the cost of a second sander.  You'd only have to buy 3 parts, all of which are available from Festool.  When an RTS or DTS comes in for service, the swaged band clamp is replaced with the screw type large hose clamp, like those used on radiator hoses, just larger.

Ken,

The possibility of doing this was discussed at length here a few years ago. IIRC, it was confirmed by Festool that doing this would invalidate the tool warranty. Someone with a better memory than me may be able to coroborate this...

I remember talking with one of the guys in Indiana about it of the same opinion.  It's been too long to remember any details.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I didn't find a post with a Festool employee replying to the DTS/RTS warranty debate, doesn't mean there isn't one.  I did find this thread, Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400.  Check out reply #23.  In this reply Wayne talks about counter balancing of the two sanders and that someone at Festool said that's the problem.  I believe that could be it even it the counter balances are the same part in the two tools.  The counter balance is likely fine tuned for each tool so if you changed the pad the tool would likely be out of balance. [2cents]   

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Brice,

That's what I was talking about with the pad mounting base that David told me about.  That has to be changed with the pad.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Check out reply #23.  In this reply Wayne talks about counter balancing of the two sanders and that someone at Festool said that's the problem.  I believe that could be it even it the counter balances are the same part in the two tools.  The counter balance is likely fine tuned for each tool so if you changed the pad the tool would likely be out of balance. [2cents]    

And I'll repeat what I answered to Wayne in that thread, the balance story is not true. I checked all parts on the DTS and RTS sanders in the Ekat parts lists and they're exactly the same, except for the pad and it's corresponding base plate. If balance was an issue there would be different parts inside the two sanders to compensate, but there ain't.

People who don't believe me are welcome to check the  Ekat themselves.

I decided to stick with the DS instead of the DTS so I can swap out pads as I want. I prefer the DS anyway.

 

[Alan m]

im not disagreeing with you alex but having the same counter ballence doesnt mean that the new pad will be balenced. it has got to do with the distance from the central point. by moving the same weight around to different distances a  vibration could be caused or not removed .

as for swapping the pads , is it worth risking one sander to make it do 2 things rather than buying 2 in the first place. there has to be a point where the extra effort to swap over and back pays off (also wear on the mounting mechanism) . in the long run i think 2 would be better

 

[Ken Nagrod]

im not disagreeing with you alex but having the same counter ballence doesnt mean that the new pad will be balenced. it has got to do with the distance from the central point. by moving the same weight around to different distances a  vibration could be caused or not removed .

as for swapping the pads , is it worth risking one sander to make it do 2 things rather than buying 2 in the first place. there has to be a point where the extra effort to swap over and back pays off (also wear on the mounting mechanism) . in the long run i think 2 would be better

Ahhh, choices.  Hopefully that's how my info will come across.  For those who didn't think of it or didn't think it possible.

 

[Brice Burrell]

And I'll repeat what I answered to Wayne in that thread, the balance story is not true. I checked all parts on the DTS and RTS sanders in the Ekat parts lists and they're exactly the same, except for the pad and it's corresponding base plate. If balance was an issue there would be different parts inside the two sanders to compensate, but there ain't....

Alex, maybe I didn't make it clear in my reply.  It's possible the brass counter balance part is machined to fine tune the balance for each individual sander.  If that is the case changing the weight or even moving parts around as Alan posted will change the balance.  

....as for swapping the pads , is it worth risking one sander to make it do 2 things rather than buying 2 in the first place. there has to be a point where the extra effort to swap over and back pays off (also wear on the mounting mechanism) . in the long run i think 2 would be better

That's what I decided on.

 

[Les]

I decided to stick with the DS instead of the DTS so I can swap out pads as I want. I prefer the DS anyway.

Alex,

Me too. [big grin]

 

[AlexThePalex]

im not disagreeing with you alex but having the same counter ballence doesnt mean that the new pad will be balenced. it has got to do with the distance from the central point.

Alex, maybe I didn't make it clear in my reply.  It's possible the brass counter balance part is machined to fine tune the balance for each individual sander.  If that is the case changing the weight or even moving parts around as Alan posted will change the balance.  

Do you guys even know what the word 'SAME" means?

Go check Ekat for yourself, like I did, instead of inventing all kinds of weird theories. Check the parts. Check the part numbers. Remove the pad from one of your sanders and see how the counter weight is fitted. I have done all above things. There is only ONE way to fit it. There is only ONE part number in the Ekat for each part and they're all the same across the sanders. There is NO WAY to make tuning adjustments. There are NO parts especially tuned to that one particular sander. It is ALL mass production. If you order one of those parts anew, to replace older parts, you gonna get one that's exactly the same and it will work fine as long as you know enough about screwing to fit it correctly.

Alan, you are correct to say that the distance from the central point is important. And your theory would be very sound if there actually was a way to vary that distance, but in this particular case, there isn't. It is a "one size fits all" case.

Brice, if the weight of the counterbalance was changed to suit a particular sander, it would have a different part number. Or do you think Festool just makes two different parts with the same number?

Sorry to sound a bit harsh, but I have had this conversation once before and it is unbelievable how people try to bend reality just to explain some misinformation by one Festool employee. No, not everything every Festool employee says is the golden truth. They also make mistakes. This one did, if Wayne recalled his words correctly.

....as for swapping the pads , is it worth risking one sander to make it do 2 things rather than buying 2 in the first place. there has to be a point where the extra effort to swap over and back pays off (also wear on the mounting mechanism) . in the long run i think 2 would be better

That's what I decided on.

Me too. I have a DS400 and a RTS400. But the DS is so much more comfortable to use due the shape of the pad that the RTS just sits idle for most of the time. The only time I take out the RTS is when I need to sand something where the DS doesn't fit, like profiles on a door for instance. That happens very rarely, but when it does it is nice to have the RTS around. However, after thinking it over, I decided the cost of that sander is too much (330 €) just to have it sit there in the closet all the time. If you use it a lot, of course you want two. But not everybody is in that position. In that case, it is nice to be able to change pads when you need it. In the very rare case my DS doesn't fit but the TS would, I'm willing to invest 2 minutes of my time to swap pads. Without compromising any functionality.
 

Ahhh, choices.  Hopefully that's how my info will come across.  For those who didn't think of it or didn't think it possible.

That's why I am very much for the idea Ken posted (btw, this subject has come up many times before on this forum), and technically it's pretty easy to accomplish, within limits. It has been done before. Anybody notice how the Rotex 90 for instance has 2 completely different types of pads, without going off balance? (3 actually, the extended delta pad is also different from the other 2). The RTS300 has 2 different pads.  And there's a Black & Decker sander that takes no less than 4 different pads.

But Ken, swapping pads for the DTS/RTS400 types is ok, but I think the bigger size of the RTS300 pad would require a more powerful motor like the RTS300 has (200 vs 280 watt). Not sure if it's that easy to incorporate that in 1 sander.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Sorry, I'm not communicating clearly, that's my fault.  I'm not saying they are different parts, I'm saying it is possible they fine tune each counter balance for each individual sander (not model) but each and every DST and RTS sander that comes off the line. 

 

[Ken Nagrod]

im not disagreeing with you alex but having the same counter ballence doesnt mean that the new pad will be balenced. it has got to do with the distance from the central point.

Alex, maybe I didn't make it clear in my reply.  It's possible the brass counter balance part is machined to fine tune the balance for each individual sander.  If that is the case changing the weight or even moving parts around as Alan posted will change the balance. 

Do you guys even know what the word 'SAME" means?

Go check Ekat for yourself, like I did, instead of inventing all kinds of weird theories. Check the parts. Check the part numbers. Remove the pad from one of your sanders and see how the counter weight is fitted. I have done all above things. There is only ONE way to fit it. There is only ONE part number in the Ekat for each part and they're all the same across the sanders. There is NO WAY to make tuning adjustments. There are NO parts especially tuned to that one particular sander. It is ALL mass production. If you order one of those parts anew, to replace older parts, you gonna get one that's exactly the same and it will work fine as long as you know enough about screwing to fit it correctly.

Alan, you are correct to say that the distance from the central point is important. And your theory would be very sound if there actually was a way to vary that distance, but in this particular case, there isn't. It is a "one size fits all" case.

Brice, if the weight of the counterbalance was changed to suit a particular sander, it would have a different part number. Or do you think Festool just makes two different parts with the same number?

Sorry to sound a bit harsh, but I have had this conversation once before and it is unbelievable how people try to bend reality just to explain some misinformation by one Festool employee. No, not everything every Festool employee says is the golden truth. They also make mistakes. This one did, if Wayne recalled his words correctly.

....as for swapping the pads , is it worth risking one sander to make it do 2 things rather than buying 2 in the first place. there has to be a point where the extra effort to swap over and back pays off (also wear on the mounting mechanism) . in the long run i think 2 would be better

That's what I decided on.

Me too. I have a DS400 and a RTS400. But the DS is so much more comfortable to use due the shape of the pad that the RTS just sits idle for most of the time. The only time I take out the RTS is when I need to sand something where the DS doesn't fit, like profiles on a door for instance. That happens very rarely, but when it does it is nice to have the RTS around. However, after thinking it over, I decided the cost of that sander is too much (330 €) just to have it sit there in the closet all the time. If you use it a lot, of course you want two. But not everybody is in that position. In that case, it is nice to be able to change pads when you need it. In the very rare case my DS doesn't fit but the TS would, I'm willing to invest 2 minutes of my time to swap pads. Without compromising any functionality.
 

Ahhh, choices.  Hopefully that's how my info will come across.  For those who didn't think of it or didn't think it possible.

That's why I am very much for the idea Ken posted (btw, this subject has come up many times before on this forum), and technically it's pretty easy to accomplish, within limits. It has been done before. Anybody notice how the Rotex 90 for instance has 2 completely different types of pads, without going off balance? (3 actually, the extended delta pad is also different from the other 2). The RTS300 has 2 different pads.  And there's a Black & Decker sander that takes no less than 4 different pads.

But Ken, swapping pads for the DTS/RTS400 types is ok, but I think the bigger size of the RTS300 pad would require a more powerful motor like the RTS300 has (200 vs 280 watt). Not sure if it's that easy to incorporate that in 1 sander.

Alex,

I was thinking that when I first started this thread, looking at the make up of the different models available to you guys, I thought that might be the reason Festool didn't incorporate the RS300's pad size into the DTS/RTS400.  I like the compactness of the DTS/RTS400 and felt having that slightly larger pad as an option would fill a void here for 1/3 sheet sanders.  Thanks for bringing that up, though.