Yet another MFT3 squaring thread

[meldgaard]

I am in the process of tuning my new MFT3. Basically I  just need to square the rail in regards to the fence - and that is not all that difficult with all these nice how-to videos.

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But in my nitty-gritty world I should like everything to be square:

- The front of the table to the rail (A)
- the rail to the fence (B) and last but not least
- the fence to the grid

Especially when starting with "Squaring the front of the table to the rail" things dont 'ad up'.
Is it fx. normal that the rail when installed out of the box isn't square to the front of the table?
And is it at all possible to end up with a square setup where the v-grooves, rail, fence and grid are all square to eah other?

I am very fascinated by the Qwas products, the tabletop and the simplicity and lean & clean way of the way to use the table solely on the cnc milled grid; Very well illustrated on Brices Burrell's latests Child Desk Projectchild desk project

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"I needed to both rip and crosscut this pieces but instead of taking the time to setup the fence and guide rail on my MFT I use Qwas dogs and Qwas rail dogs.

With the holes in the MFT top all being perfectly cut on a CNC machine it's like having a built-in square on your MFT table. I placed the Qwas dogs down to act as a fence and attached the rail dogs in the clamp groove on the bottom of my guide rail, then drop the dogs in the holes. This made a perfectly square cut without any hassle. This was a big time saver in my project since I needed all of the table space of my MFT but still had to make crosscuts. Setting up the fence/guide rail and squaring then up several times during this project would been very time consuming. With the Qwas products it only took seconds. "

 

[tbellemare]

All you have to do is put the guide rail wherever you want it and then:

• turn the fence to 90 degrees so that it is parallel to the guide rail
• slide it over next to the guide rail
• adjust the fence to be parallel to the guide rail

There are many reasons why you will want to move the guide rail to different places on the table and even use different guide rails. All you have to do is set the stops for the guide rail pivot and mount and perform the above procedure. Now you can take everything off the table and transport it. When you put it all back, it will remain square unless you have really banged it around.

Tom

 

[Brice Burrell]

I believe the top being cut on a CNC machine is perfectly square as are the holes to themselves and the edges of the top.  So, you'd be able to square the rail to holes and edges of the top.  I don't know how square the MFT assembly (profiles and corner together) is, they are likely very close to square.  I'd assume there is some slop in the fit of the top and the profiles so if you flip your top you'd have to square your rail to the top again for it to be perfect.  Recapping, yes to having the edges of the top and the holes square to the rail, not so sure it's possible to have the V grooves perfectly square too.

As for the Qwas products, go for it.  These things are great in terms of accuracy, ease and speed of setup.  I think there is still need for the MFT fence with the flip stops.  Beside, the Qwas dogs allow you to quickly setup the MFT fence and rail square to the top/holes.

 

[meldgaard]

Thanks for the replies! Tomorrow (it's midnight at my end) I'll try to square it up 'the other way round':

- Align the fence against some bench dogs
- square the rail to the fence
- check the rail against the front of the table ...

 

[tbellemare]

I agree, Brice, that there is some slop in the top-to-frame assembly. I think you could fine tune the arrangement, at least from 1 edge, so that the rows  of holes were known to be parallel to the aluminum profile. I think all it would require is loosening the screws that mount the top and using dogs of some sort to gauge the distance from a vertical member that was clamped to the profile to achieve parallel.

Tom

 

[Corwin]

I agree, Brice, that there is some slop in the top-to-frame assembly. I think you could fine tune the arrangement, at least from 1 edge so that the rows  of holes were known to be parallel to the aluminum profile. I think all it would require is loosening the screws that mount the top and using dogs of some sort to gauge the distance from a vertical member that was clamped to the profile to achieve parallel.

Tom

Yes, there is some slop between the top and the frame.  And you can attempt to align one side of the table with the adjacent side profile.  However, I am not so sure that you can expect that the top and frame will stay in that alignment with one another.  I would expect that moving or even bumping your MFT would alter that alignment, as could expansion and contraction due to temperature changes.  Just a thought.  In any event, you should be able to easily align the rail and fence with the holes, and that should be all that (or more than) is needed.

 

[Qwas]

But in my nitty-gritty world I should like everything to be square:

- The front of the table to the rail (A)
- the rail to the fence (B) and last but not least
- the fence to the grid

Especially when starting with "Squaring the front of the table to the rail" things dont 'ad up'.
Is it fx. normal that the rail when installed out of the box isn't square to the front of the table?
And is it at all possible to end up with a square setup where the v-grooves, rail, fence and grid are all square to eah other?

The 3 items you ask to be square should be square already but are easy to align especially with the Qwas Dogs. It will just take a few seconds to check with the Qwas Dogs. When you do attempt to try and square everything, reverse your order or use my order:

1. Align guide rail to the grid.
2. Align fence to the guide rail.
3. Check the front of table to the guide rail (only way to align this would be to cut the front edge of the MDF and so far I've not heard of this being off).

I don't have an MFT/3, just the older MFT-1080 with different corner posts than the /3. I noticed my rails were out of square also. It takes some work but you can dismantle the rails and then make sure they are cut to the same lengths. I had one slightly longer that was keeping the rails out of square with the table top. Now everything is square on my MFT.  [smile]

 

[nickao]

Funny, when I first got the MFT's I was so concerned with everything being square, extrusions, etc. Years later I give a crap. I bang my units around a lot and I really don't care if anything is out of whack because all that matters is that the holes are in alignment and the columns and rows are are perpendicular to each other.  They always are, the holes can't move!

Even if the mdf was hanging out of the actual mft extrusions I could still get a perfectly square cut using the Qwas dogs relying on the holes. I never look at the edge of the mdf or the extrusions anymore it simply does not matter. Heck, I could use the top sitting on a garbage can without the extrusions and get perfect cuts. I use the dogs mostly(99.9% of the time) now and not the extrusions slot.  The key is the placement of the holes. Nice I make my own tops now too.

 

[meldgaard]

Thanks for all your replies - and of course your'e right Qwas and Nickao  - In the shiny aluminum perpendicular precision world of rails, fences and v-grooves it is easy to be carried a little away 8^)

 

[Brice Burrell]

....Nice I make my own tops now too.

Nick, how do you make your own tops and maintain dead on accuracy?  It wouldn't take much of an error in hole aliment to totally screw things up for the Qwas dogs.

 

[nickao]

I made a CNC Festool style, .0004 accuracy and precision(0.01016 millimeters).

 

[Corwin]

I made a CNC Festool style, .0004 accuracy and precision(0.01016 millimeters).

Make believers out of us -- show us the pictures.  And, while you're at it, how about a picture of the MFT/3 fence that you adapted to fit your MFT-1080?  You know the saying around here; if we cannot see the pictures, it didn't happen.    [smile]

 

[nickao]

Nope no pics, I don't even post the pics on the CNC forum. It may take a bit longer before my trust level is there for that. I will link to a blog on CNC I am getting together though. As far as the fence mft set up I would have to dig it out of my shop which is a huge hassle, I rarely use it anymore. When I come across it while moving the shop I'll email you some pics.

 

[Corwin]

Nope no pics, I don't even post the pics on the CNC forum. It may take a bit longer before my trust level is there for that. I will link to a blog on CNC I am getting together though. As far as the fence mft set up I would have to dig it out of my shop which is a huge hassle, I rarely use it anymore. When I come across it while moving the shop I'll email you some pics.

Huh?  What's the issue here?    [unsure]

 

[harry_]

it's James Bond, 007, triple top secret, if he shows us he has to kill us [tongue]

 

[Brice Burrell]

I made a CNC Festool style, .0004 accuracy and precision(0.01016 millimeters).

Very cool, I somehow missed that you had a CNC setup.

 

[PaulMarcel]

I built my own version of a SysPort bench (like everybody... ) and put a top on it that has holes drilled in the same pattern as the MFT.  In my case, I took a spare top and used it as a drilling guide.  No, it isn't the best and there is some error with the Qwas squares for squaring, etc.  But I mentioned it to my CNC friend and he said the program to cut that top would be so simple he'd have me write it and show me the whole process.  I'm game.  I bought a 20mm hole-boring bit from Festool for it so the holes would be cleaner than using a 1/4" spiral.  Eager to give it a go as it would greatly enhance my work area.

It would be worth finding a CNC shop to make yourself one or maybe a couple at a time.

As an aside, I have a Walko-4 with the table struts.  I put the spare top on the struts and clamped it in place.  On my last project, it was actually more useful to have a near vertical MFT surface.  The clamping elements worked wonderfully well and the table didn't move much at all (only a bit during sanding).  It's a new work surface to learn.