You guys who do not have a Domino....

[Kev]

I think anyone on the fence should get it quickly, because when the XL comes out the fence will only get higher and bigger!

Oh that's right - the American colonies are still waiting for the XL. That'll teach you not to invent your own standards  [big grin]

 

[Ted Miller]

I've been looking hard at a domino purchase lately and a little concerned about the plastic pegs over the the original pins style. I checked one out at a dealer and the demo unit they had out had plastic pegs that stuck in the retracted position when the fence was down at 90. I've been keeping my eye out on ebay to see about picking up a pin version. Any thoughts? Am I over analyzing it? Is the plastic pegs ok? Did i just see a bum or abused unit that had the sticky pegs? Should i hold out to find a pin version for sale? Do miniature pigs really make good pets?

Victor, I dislike the pins, ok I hate the pins, they get in my way. Plus they tend to push the material away from you a bit as you plunge. I decided I would purchase a new fence with the paddle style pins, so that way I could retract them for good.

For the first time in my life I got lucky, found a used Domino on eBay, no systainer, cord or bits, for the price of the fence from Ekat. When I rec'd the used Domino I punched out the pins on the fence and just love it.

I like to use pencil marks for all my mortices...

 

[dltflt]

I would not let the pins be the deciding factor.  I use the pins on the first cut from the edge only then use pencil lines.  This is an awesome machine.

 

[vrasilla]

thanks everybody for the opinions!  Looks like a Domino is in my near future.  I like the sound of the plastic pegs being retractable rather the the pins having to only be pushed in to retract for the duration of the cut.  I was really turned off of the pegs when I saw a demo unit at a dealer and the when the fence was stiff close to 90 and I had to push it to get to 90 and then when i pushed the pegs in they were binding and staying stuck in the retracted position then when i released the fence and started to bring it up the pegs popped out freely. Maybe that unit just had too many grubby hands on it or something.

 

[PaulMarcel]

If you couldn't get the fence down to 90, it is likely they had the height adjustment bottomed out; on the pin fence, the bottomed out height is where the fence can't pivot down to 90.

Like I said, get whichever unit you get a good deal on.  If it comes with the fence you don't want, 'fence' it up here in classifieds... someone will want your more than the model you want

 

[vrasilla]

If you couldn't get the fence down to 90, it is likely they had the height adjustment bottomed out; on the pin fence, the bottomed out height is where the fence can't pivot down to 90.

Like I said, get whichever unit you get a good deal on.  If it comes with the fence you don't want, 'fence' it up here in classifieds... someone will want your more than the model you want

That could be it. I really didn't check it out that closely and mostly just focused of the pegs since i've been freting about that before i take the thousand dollar plunge in dominoland. I can see myself not using the pegs that much anyway and following pencil layouts mostly.

And Paul, thanks for all your time investment into the video reviews! Sometimes I'll just let them play on my second monitor when I have to work at my desk and can't get my festool fix from being in the shop!

 

[Timtool]

That could be it. I really didn't check it out that closely and mostly just focused of the pegs since i've been freting about that before i take the thousand dollar plunge in dominoland. I can see myself not using the pegs that much anyway and following pencil layouts mostly.

The pegs are the biggest time saver on the domino, in some cases you can make frames entirely without any marking needed. I will use them whenever possible, having to place a mark often takes more time than doing the plunge. My 500 has the paddles and i never bothered to retract them at all, you do need to be careful because it can cause small inaccuracies because they tend to push the fence up and away from the workpiece, but it's very rare. And my 700 has the 6 pins, which are more practical to retract, but i found they can get annoying when mortising a piece that has a groove where the pins tend to get stuck in and making it hard to position the fence correctly.

 

[vrasilla]

Thats good points timtool, i can see the pins working great for registering from the last plunge but the pegs, do they fit into the domino mortise for the same type of registration?

 

[fdengel]

Oh that's right - the American colonies are still waiting for the XL. That'll teach you not to invent your own standards  [big grin]

And what would those be?

Imperial units were invented in England and were the standard throughout the British Empire (thus the name) for quite some time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units

We simply stuck with it when everyone else started changing their measurement systems.

As to 110/120V... well, someone had to start somewhere: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1033/how-come-the-u-s-uses-120-volt-electricity-not-240-like-the-rest-of-the-world

 

[Kev]

Oh that's right - the American colonies are still waiting for the XL. That'll teach you not to invent your own standards  [big grin]

And what would those be?

Imperial units were invented in England and were the standard throughout the British Empire (thus the name) for quite some time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units

We simply stuck with it when everyone else started changing their measurement systems.

As to 110/120V... well, someone had to start somewhere: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1033/how-come-the-u-s-uses-120-volt-electricity-not-240-like-the-rest-of-the-world

I do have a clue (being originally British and all). The "US gallon", "Short ton" ... hmmm.

But regardless ... it was tongue in cheek.

 

[mouppe]

.....you are really missing the boat. 

Every time I use mine, (one of the original pin models) I cannot believe how much engineering went into it, an how much it truly revolutionized woodworking.

Having always gone the old route of mortises and tenon, and dadoing for shelves, it was always labor intensive,

and required allot of calculations for required additional length of stock for tenons, etc, and precise configuration of machining all.

Now, cut the stock to the exact finished length, draw a few pencil reference lines, and voila!!!

Anytime, anyplace. No matter how long the stock, or how small.

And while I've never studied it, I'd bet money that the properly glued Domino joint is actually stronger than a dado joint,

considering that one of the mating pieces for solid stock is end grain.

I can't see purchasing the new larger version myself, as I have no need, I can see it revolutionizing the 6 panel door industry.

I was using the domino yesterday in a similar fashion to make holes in cabinet sides for shelves. I set the flag stop on the MFT fence to ensure the mortises on both cabinet sides are at the same distance from the ends, and the back of the guide rail on the MFT to ensure the mortises are perpendicular to the cabinet side edges.

 

[Joe Jensen]

Having seen and used the Domino 500 in Europe before it was released in the USA, I pre-ordered one. Of course that one had the pins. About a year later I needed a second Domino. By then only the plastic paddle version were available.

So for a long time I have used both styles of Domino. For me both work swell. They are precise.

The thing to remember is it takes a whole lot of practice to be effective using a Domino. There are a million tricks and to learn those having an experienced coach will save a lot of time. All last week I participated in an End User Cabinet/Doors combo class in Henderson, NV with Steve Bace as trainer. Two of the participants own Domino 500 which they had not used. I was the only person in the class who earns a living from cabinet making.

By the end of the second day of cabinet making, using several sizes of Dominoes in many ways, even the least experienced participant was confident about using the Domino 500. When anyone had doubts, Steve Bace was right there to offer a suggestion how a certain approach would best suit the body type of the individual. Some methods work better for a few people.

Had we been taking that class in Lebanon, IN it would have been Brian Sedgeley providing the coaching. Back in 2010 there were 8 participants in classes, so both Steve and Brian were our trainers. It has been marvelous for me to benefit from coaching by Steve and Brian.

I buy Dominoes several big packs at a time. I have used the Domino to make thousands of mortises. And yet I still believe it is worth the time and money to get refresher coaching from time to time.

I have an original Pin style Domino and I love it.  I do however struggle with glue ups involving a lot of dominos.  Are you using regular carpenters glue or something slower?  How many tenons can you glue and get clamped at once?  Also, any great tips on gluing them?  Do you need glue in the mortise and on the tenon?  thanks..joe

 

[jacko9]

Having seen and used the Domino 500 in Europe before it was released in the USA, I pre-ordered one. Of course that one had the pins. About a year later I needed a second Domino. By then only the plastic paddle version were available.

So for a long time I have used both styles of Domino. For me both work swell. They are precise.

The thing to remember is it takes a whole lot of practice to be effective using a Domino. There are a million tricks and to learn those having an experienced coach will save a lot of time. All last week I participated in an End User Cabinet/Doors combo class in Henderson, NV with Steve Bace as trainer. Two of the participants own Domino 500 which they had not used. I was the only person in the class who earns a living from cabinet making.

By the end of the second day of cabinet making, using several sizes of Dominoes in many ways, even the least experienced participant was confident about using the Domino 500. When anyone had doubts, Steve Bace was right there to offer a suggestion how a certain approach would best suit the body type of the individual. Some methods work better for a few people.

Had we been taking that class in Lebanon, IN it would have been Brian Sedgeley providing the coaching. Back in 2010 there were 8 participants in classes, so both Steve and Brian were our trainers. It has been marvelous for me to benefit from coaching by Steve and Brian.

I buy Dominoes several big packs at a time. I have used the Domino to make thousands of mortises. And yet I still believe it is worth the time and money to get refresher coaching from time to time.

I have an original Pin style Domino and I love it.  I do however struggle with glue ups involving a lot of dominos.  Are you using regular carpenters glue or something slower?  How many tenons can you glue and get clamped at once?   Also, any great tips on gluing them?  Do you need glue in the mortise and on the tenon?   thanks..joe

Joe,  I use Tidebond Extend glue which gives you more open time.  I also glue up one side of the joint in areas where I use the Domino in the medium or widest setting so I don't have to worry about alignment in the final assembly.

Jack

 

[davee]

I use both Titebond II and III with cabinet glueups that have quite a few dominos.  I make sure to first dry fit to find and address any issues. I find the actual glue up goes pretty fast. 

I usually find gadgets to be a waste of money, but recently purchased Rockler silicone glue brushes that work really well -- http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?site=ROCKLER&page=31128link.

One end readily applies glue to the tenons and the other to the mortice.  The silicone make cleanup very easy.

 

[ccarrolladams]

I have an original Pin style Domino and I love it.  I do however struggle with glue ups involving a lot of dominos.  Are you using regular carpenters glue or something slower?  How many tenons can you glue and get clamped at once?   Also, any great tips on gluing them?  Do you need glue in the mortise and on the tenon?   thanks..joe

Hi Joe,

Before I could respond, Jack provided a really good tip. He mentions Tidebond Extend for increased open time before clamping and only trying to glue and clamp as many Dominoes as you can deal with during the open time of your glue.

As I said, the Domino is a system. Making the mortises with the tool takes some practice and experience. The same is true of the entire assembly system.

When I first saw a Domino 500 being used by a friend with a decent shop in Europe, he had a bunch of the actual Dominoes sanded down for dry fitting and those were marked on each end with red magic marker. He actually rehearsed the assembly and clamping process as often as he needed to do until he was fast enough to complete this safely within the open time of the glue he was using. My friend had been building with wood for many years and had used other joining systems.

I was in the same boat. For over 45 years or more before the Domino I used a combination rabbet and dado (similar to a lock joint) to connect the fixed bottom shelf of a base cabinet to the sides and an ordinary dado to connect the back to the sides and bottom.

Switching to Domino construction, I needed to rehearse and experiment. I found it best to use the tight setting on the end-grain part, so those Dominoes did not flop around during assembly. Since those Dominoes in tight mortises do not require clamping, I would glue then first and let them set slightly before doing the rest of the glue-up and assembly.

I started out with the equivalent of TB Extend, although as I gained experience and confidence I switched to glues requiring shorter clamping time.

I also do not suggest brushing glue onto the Dominoes or into the mortises. Instead I squirt some glue onto a piece of scrap material, so I can "butter" just the flat sides of the Dominoes. If the joint requires a lot of Dominoes, then I only apply the glue to the end going into the tight mortises. In this case, when I am ready for final assembly, all the necessary cabinet makers clamps are ready on the assembly table.

I apply glue to the exposed parts of the pre-glued Dominoes and to that side of the joint with a finger. I finesse the Dominoes into their respective mortises quickly and start setting the clamps as soon as possible.

Of course each kind of joint is different. For example, when I use Dominoes building face frames, all the mortises into end grain are tight. I glue just those ends of the Dominoes, tap them into place, and then set those parts aside until the glue holds. Only then do I apply glue to the exposed ends of the Dominoes and to the end-grain side of the joints. In the old days I would use 2 or more cabinet makers clamps. Since opening my shop I use a cabinet door/face frame electro pneumatic assembly system to clamp the joints while at the same time ensuring the frame is square. To improve productivity I use a glue intended for the purpose so the frame or door does not need to linger in the assembly machine. Yes, it does take practice and experience to do all this before the glue runs out of open time.

My suggestion to folks building cabinets, frames and doors on a small scale is to buy enough good cabinet makers clamps so you can at least assemble one cabinet case or face frame at a time.

It is sort of like building boats during the winter. The practical approach is to become good buddies with two or more pals close to you. All of you help each other and stagger the work so you can freely borrow and loan claps to one another. As with a boat it usually is better to have two or three sets of experienced hands during the clamping process, there is a benefit to having an experienced pal helping with assembly of cabinet cases, especially uppers where both the fixed top and bottom shelves need to be assembled and glues at the same time as the back is fitted into position.