110v Range

[Darren653]

Darren,

I have said it many times on Fog.

110v tools are less powerful but festool are really bad for it.

My mate bought the TS55 110v and when I use his it's extremely underpowered.

I hate using his. I'm totally 240v and my TS55 has loads of power.

My other work mate didn't own a track saw but wanted one. He's all on 110v but after using mine and my mates 110v he didn't want to get it in 110v but because all his tools are 110v he wanted to stick with 110v.

So he looked at mafel track saw and it has slightly more power on spec. So he took the gamble and bought the mafel in the hope that having a more powerful motor it will be okay on 110v.

Well the  mafel was  a lot better on 110v.  I've used his mafel saw and it has plenty of power.  We even used the TS55 110v and mafel 110v on same transformer and the mafel has more power.

So buy 240v festool avoid 110v festool.

I don't know with mafel but festool tools especially the kapex don't like generators.

I went to a job to fit skirting and the job had a small generator.

The generator was at the front of the house and I ran a lead inside.

Plugged my kapex in and....... Nothing!! It wouldn't work.  Lasers turned on but no power.

At first I thought my kapex was broken or my lead.  So I got another lead out and tried again.

Nope nothing.  So I decided to drag the generator round the back of the house ( don't ask me why I didn't disassemble my kapex and take  my kapex to the generator )
I kinda thought if the kapex was plugged directly into the generator it would work.

So after finally dragging the bloody generator round and plugging my kapex into it direct thinking yep I'll be on my way now..... Nope nothing wouldn't work.

So I ended up calling my mate who luckily didn't need his chopsaw on his job dropped his dewalt chopsaw off. 

Plugged it in and it worked perfectly!!!

So the entire day I was gutted because I thought my kapex was broken and it needed to go for repair.

Soon as I got  home I plugged my kapex into socket and yes!!! Kapex works!! Few!!!

So I called festool and I was told some generators don't produce clean enough electricity so the kapex electronics won't let the kapex start.

Yep, that's the general impression that I'm getting. I just wished I'd have known before spending all of that money and wasting so much time trying to get around the problem. Thanks for the info!

 

[Darren653]

All my festool is 110v and I have no issue now. ( I did in the past) I had an old 8 year old 3.3 tranny. Tools started to become under powered. Spoke to a sparky and he said my tranny was starting to wear/ burn out. Didn't know they could. So went to a job of mine and ther was a plasterer with a brand new tranny.  So plugged my extractor in and power was better. So next day went and got a 4 kva tranny. Not as big or heavy as a 5 but never had a problem since. And I sometimes run a 25m lead then my midi. I plug my of2200 and kapex in to my midi. No problem. Do find a 50 m lead is a bit under powered. Hope this helps. Luke

Thanks Luke, that's good to know. It may still be a pain for me though because I quite often have to run off of a genny as some sites won't have any power nearby to plug into  :-\

 

[Darren653]

Darren

All my festools are 110v I don't have a problem with any of them (I run them all from a 5.5kva transformer in my shed I've a 110v ring wired in using the 32amp socket)

I've probably 10 guys on my site with TS55,s all 110v never had a problem with any

Sorry I know that's prob not much help

Thanks mate. It's not really feasible for me to lug about a 5kva tranny though as those things way a ton don't they. Plus, it's still frustrating because a 3.3kva tranny should be fine with a load of about 2800watts (i forget the exact calculation). Plus, my mate has a dewalt 110v track saw which has plenty of power and cost a fraction of the price.

 

[Darren653]

Someone who travels from the UK to the US or Canada should bring along their 110v TS55. We could see how it cuts on the 110v house current we have over here. A comparison of the North American TS55 and a UK TS 55 could also be informative. They only differ in the 50 vs 60 cycle rating which should result in the UK saw perhaps running faster (?). The power rating should be the same I assume.

If the UK saw performs better in NA than with the transformer back in the UK, then the electronics are likely the problem.

that would be interesting!

 

[Darren653]

Darren,

As a yank who is working in the UK and brought all my 110v festools with me.

I use a 3.3kv tranny to power my tools.

I'd say their is something wrong with your tranny or connections etc.

I run all my tools using either my 110v ct 26 or 22 with my , kapex , TS 75 in  the CMS cutting 2" thick green oak and everything else Plus the 2200 under load making full debth cuts,  sanders I even ran my 13" 110v delta thicknesser running green oak through it.

I've not had the problem you described.

There must something else going on wiring, tranny etc.

I hope so as that would make things a lot easier for me if i could just replace the tranny for example. The only problem is that it would mean that my transformer, my mates transformer, my generator and his generator (all of which are different brands) are all faulty...

 

[luke1984]

I run a 2.7 kva genie and it fine just as long as I plug my midi directly. I run my kapex and of2200. Not as power full as the mains but still both cut fine.

 

[andyman]

Hi Guys,

I've spent a few hours browsing the web and FOG trying to find a solution to my problem and although some people seem to experience some similar issues, I haven't been able to find a conclusive solution.

So, for many years now I seem to have predominantly been using Makita tools and the odd Dewalt. Not for any particular reason, just that I have never had any problems with them and they seem to last a long long time. I still use there 18v range daily now. However, I have recently been drawn in by the powers of Festool and being a kitchen fitter, my first two purchases were the CTM AC 36 extractor and the TS 55 plunge saw (both 110v).

I was very pleased with how these looked and the engineering of them. However, since I've started using them I have had nothing but frustration. I have a 3.3KVA transformer and usually do not use any extension lead...I just plug the extractor straight into the tranny. Between them, there is a max running wattage of 2400w, which should easily be within the transformers limits. I understand that the startup wattage for powertools is greater than the running wattage but as there is a delayed start on the vac, i don't think this will be the problem. Whenever I use the saw to cut 38mm chipboard worktops, running off of the extractor, I have to do it in two cuts else the blade will stop due to lack of power. I have also tried to turn the power of the extractor right down but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

I've already messaged Festool about it and one of their guys rang me back a few days later saying that I should purchase a new blade with less teeth and run the saw at a slow speed. He also said that this is a common issue with Festool and I should purchase a 5kva transformer which should help.

I'm not happy with this response at all. Having spent around £1000 on two 'premium brand' power tools, I don't expect these problems and certainly don't want to have to purchase additional equipment at a greater cost. I didn't have these problems with my old Dewalt plunge saw. I was looking at buying the OF2200 router but being a higher wattage than the TS55, i guess that I have no chance of using this without problems.

It's also worth mentioning that another kitchen fitter that I work with also uses a lot of Festool stuff including a 110v TS 55 & a CTL extractor. He also has the same problems on 110v using a 5.5kva generator and is talking about sticking his stuff on ebay and converting back to Dewalt. He went to the last Festool show in the UK and spoke to one of the reps there, who told him (being honest) to stay away from the Festool 110v stuff as they always seem to have the problems crop up. He said that the tools are mainly designed for those people working in clean workshops on 240v.

Can anyone shed any light on this please and end my frustration? Surely a high end brand like Festool wouldn't put up for sale 110v tools that perform this badly? If I can't find a solution then i'm left with no choice other than to sell up and get Makita/Dewalt that I know will work but i'd rather avoid the massive expense!

Thanks guys [fingers crossed]

my midi and ts55 trip 2 of my 3.3kv transformers all the time drives me nuts was also looking at a bigger transformer but really don't want the extra weight.
I do wonder as both trannys are few years old now

 

[Kev]

I do wonder as both trannys are few years old now

[member=15141]andyman[/member]

I think when your trannys are old enough you should just let them leave home and do their own thing [wink]

 

[Bohdan]

I think that one problem that everybody is missing is that is that there are tranformers that are rated at 3.3KW but in fact they are not designed to supply clean power at that rating. This is primarily controlled by the size of the iron core. Any smaller sized transformer can supply 3.3KW however with a much larger harmonic distortion. This distortion may affect the saws electronics and prevent proper functioning.

The excess load can cause overheating and failure but the unit may be robust enough to survive this. The designer of the transformer may not have considered dirty power would be a problem when he over-rated his design.

[member=54787]Darren653[/member]
The only way to be certain is to look at the waveform with a CRO or to measure the distortion while under load, however I feel that that is outside the common abilities of most chippies, so I would suggest that a chat with a friendly electronics technician may shed some light on your problem.

Another possible solution is to find a 3.3KV transformer that someone has that works and buy that identical brand and model but you may find that it is a much heavier unit.

 

[Holmz]

I think that one problem that everybody is missing is that is that there are tranformers that are rated at 3.3KW but in fact they are not designed to supply clean power at that rating. This is primarily controlled by the size of the iron core. Any smaller sized transformer can supply 3.3KW however with a much larger harmonic distortion. This distortion may affect the saws electronics and prevent proper functioning.
...

So with only powering the lasers one would think that the load must be well under 3.3kw.
I could envision it starting and if it was not a soft start then spitting the dummy.
Or running but in a hard cut going towards the 3.3kW and spitting it.
But not powering on does not make a lot of sense.
Or if the transformer was a switching device with tones of harmonics then it makes sense, but an old school transformer would have the identical signal coming out as going it and be linear for a long range towards full load.

I am pretty much like [member=10147]jobsworth[/member] by background, except I have embraced 220/230 and will use dedicated sockets when/if in the US.
All the 230 tools are then available none of the FT, Mirka, Mafell issues with 110v tools not working as well are averted.

 

[Bohdan]

So with only powering the lasers one would think that the load must be well under 3.3kw.

In this case he was using a generator which may have been an inverter which produce really bad sine waves especially on low load. The electronics would sense that and refuse to turn on. It appears that Festool have designed their tools to self protect really well, too well to the extent that they will refuse to run if every thing is not perfect.

I have found that the TS55, when ripping thru 2" hardwood, will thermally shut down to protect itself from overheating. Nice feature as I would always prefer it shuts down rather than burns out, but its a real PITA when you are working.

 

[Holmz]

[member=36526]Bohdan[/member], now that you've explained it - it makes total sense on the inverter genny.

(tweet: Maybe he needs a big subwoofer cross over to remove the high frequency stuff.)

 

[Bohdan]

[member=36526]Bohdan[/member], now that you've explained it - it makes total sense on the inverter genny.

(tweet: Maybe he needs a big subwoofer cross over to remove the high frequency stuff.)

The really good genies have one built in, they are called pure sine wave generators.

 

[jmbfestool]

Best thing festool can do is

1. Make a festool transformer which works with their tools no problem

Or

2. Festool recommend a minimum kva transformer to be used with their tools.  So people won't be disappointed.

Problem is 110v owners obviously already own 110v transformers. The tools they already own (Milwaukee,dewalt,Bosch, makita etc) all worked fine on their transformer so when they buy a festool tool they expect the festool tool to just work on their current transformers.

Should have a big sticker inside every box saying make sure you don't have a  s h i t  transformer because I won't work very well.

 

[Nippychippy]

Best thing festool can do is

1. Make a festool transformer which works with their tools no problem

Or

2. Festool recommend a minimum kva transformer to be used with their tools.  So people won't be disappointed.

Problem is 110v owners obviously already own 110v transformers. The tools they already own (Milwaukee,dewalt,Bosch, makita etc) all worked fine on their transformer so when they buy a festool tool they expect the festool tool to just work on their current transformers.

Should have a big sticker inside every box saying make sure you don't have a  s h i t  transformer because I won't work very well.

 

[luke1984]

Jmb I'm loving your last post [big grin] [big grin]

 

[Holmz]

Best thing festool can do is

1. Make a festool transformer which works with their tools no problem

Or

2. Festool recommend a minimum kva transformer to be used with their tools.  So people won't be disappointed.

Problem is 110v owners obviously already own 110v transformers. The tools they already own (Milwaukee,dewalt,Bosch, makita etc) all worked fine on their transformer so when they buy a festool tool they expect the festool tool to just work on their current transformers.

Should have a big sticker inside every box saying make sure you don't have a  s h i t  transformer because I won't work very well.

I would rather Festool made power tools than power generation equipment.
Sicne other tools can stand power with harmonics, I would assume it is possible that FT could make the tools have the filtering inside for the sensitive electronics.

A saw that cost 3x what the others cost shold be able to run on the same xformer, and not require a former that is 3x more expensive...
It is hard to convince a rational person that the saw is better, without it actually working.

 

[Bohdan]

A saw that cost 3x what the others cost shold be able to run on the same xformer, and not require a former that is 3x more expensive...
It is hard to convince a rational person that the saw is better, without it actually working.

[thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up]

 

[terrystouf]

I tried running the Kapex of a genny once and had the same problem of it not firing up , I tried revving the gen , still nothing ,then i thought its something to do with the initial time delay of load or spike when the gen senses it has to rev up  , so I put a load on with the vac on manual and voila the kapex worked fine , that said it still blew up 3 months later with a fried armature , Ive only had it on a gen a few days of its life , I guess its smart enough it can sense voltage problems , but not heat or current overloads .. BTW its 120v at 60hz here in North America , not 110v , if its the same motors or not I dont know .

 

[andyman]

[tongue]

I do wonder as both trannys are few years old now

[member=15141]andyman[/member]

I think when your trannys are old enough you should just let them leave home and do their own thing [wink]