220V & 240V what's the difference ? ? building a DC system

[Rick Christopherson]

I knew posting that get a reaction from you guys :
here a cut & past from Bill's site on impeller's made from AL
he quotes the  newer study by the ACGIH & they reference the US Bureau of Mines

I'm betting you never would have guessed that I used to be ACGIH certified as an Industrial Hygiene Technician? I think I better bow out of this discussion, because poking holes in stuff won't gain me popularity points.  [tongue]

 

[leakyroof]

I knew posting that get a reaction from you guys :
here a cut & past from Bill's site on impeller's made from AL
he quotes the  newer study by the ACGIH & they reference the US Bureau of Mines

I'm betting you never would have guessed that I used to be ACGIH certified as an Industrial Hygiene Technician? I think I better bow out of this discussion, because poking holes in stuff won't gain me popularity points.  [tongue]

. Do NOT bow out , since you're providing facts and experience on this topic. The quote about alloy impellers could be taken out of context easily if , as you noted, one would need to be working with much more volatile dust and a larger impeller than our tiny woodworking machines.  Yes?

 

[Rick Christopherson]

The quote about alloy impellers could be taken out of context easily if........

About 15 years ago, my brother-in-law started selling very expensive ($500) home air purification devices that had some pretty outlandish claims. (It was also a pyramid company, so I was already skeptical.) When he started pressuring my wife (his wife's sister) to buy one, I began to challenge his claims. He said, "we had a reputable testing company prove our claims." So I asked him to produce a copy of the written report.

When the report was finally given to me, the first thing I noticed was the letterhead of my recent former employer (in the field of Industrial Hygiene).  [scared] So I quickly confirmed that the report was real, the signature was real, and I knew the author extremely well. She was my boss' boss, so the contents of the report were immediately known to be incontrovertible by her reputation alone.

Then I read the contents of the report. As a former employee, I knew how to read their reports, and the facts presented were irrefutable. The problem was, is that the report had absolutely nothing to do with the product they were selling. They (the pyramid company) had commissioned a report on a similar sounding topic, but didn't actually pertain to their actual product. They then misrepresented the contents of this report to their potential buyers as though it proved their claims, when it didn't have anything to do with their claims. Because most readers eyes would glaze over after the first paragraph, they didn't have to worry about the 1 or 2 people that could see through it (such as me).

The above quote falls into this same category. It is referencing a document about ventilation systems, but applies it as though it was discussing dust collection systems. While it may be applicable for dust collection at a sandblasting facility, it isn't applicable to sucking up a rusty nail.

 

[Slappy]

So in your opinion the ClearVue Cyclone & blower is not a good product ?
I realize that the chances of any spark from either a AL or steel impeller making it while still hot enuuf to start a fire is very remote in a DC system .
the dust bin especially as with the Pentz  design the chips & almost all the fines don't even pass thru the blower on their way to the dust bin
as for the chance of a spark reaching the  after blower filters that is not a concern in my case as I will be exhausting directly thru a wall to the outside .
I would also agree that a steel impeller is not a big issue for a selling point .
as the tipping point that lead to the ClearVue was not the steel impeller alone  .
mostly it was the science & testing  of the Pentz design  over me slapping a Untested Ho'made Ebay Cyclone on a inferior made in china blower .
I'm a big fan of the "more is better" than not enuuf .
I also look at costs , while the Ebay & Grizz set-up was cheaper , it is not a proven system at all or best put just a bet that it 'might work'
to have that not work well  then I'm pooched for the total costs .
for more dollars I know the ClearVue is gonna work .

I only want to do this DC system one time & I really want the safest method , so me picking up a small safety issue is just my being cautious .
i've only got one house & one set of lungs
I'm not a " little buckaroo " or a noob when it come being around industrial processes as me being in  another life in the aerospace field  as aircraft mechanic .
I am very safety aware & have made it this far by being so

 

[PaulMarcel]

Given the lack of a 'like' button on this forum, I'd have hit 'like' 4 times on this thread for Rick's input. Thx.

 

[Slappy]

Given the lack of a 'like' button on this forum, I'd have hit 'like' 4 times on this thread for Rick's input. Thx.

That's the reason I posted this thread input is needed & I accept that I'm not a expert on these matters .
So I do listen to Rick's input on every post I see of his & I do appreciate  his posting here .

 

[Rick Christopherson]

So in your opinion the ClearVue Cyclone & blower is not a good product ?

I never said anything of the sort. I was commenting on the marketing tactics used by several companies, not just ClearVue. I have a strong disdain for deceptive marketing or scare tacticts.

Even that air purifier I mentioned above, isn't a bad product. I had one for a while (my wife bought one at 1/2-price) and it was effective in what it should have done. The problem with it back then is that the manufacturer claimed it could "reach out in a 50-foot radius and knock particles out of the air".

I'm not a " little buckaroo " or a noob when it come being around industrial processes as me being in  another life in the aerospace field  as aircraft mechanic .
I am very safety aware & have made it this far by being so 

As I stated at the time, that was intended in jest. It was in reference to a humorous line in an old 1985 movie. I've now figured out why I couldn't find a clip of that line being said....it never existed!  [scared] After 30 years, my brain morphed what the character had originally said into what I wrote. Boy was I off!  [tongue] The scene I thought I was quoting occurs at 1:08 in this compilation video of "The Best of Charles Demar".

 

[Slappy]

So do you have a opinion on the ClearVue  ?

As for the Bill Pentz site : I find he leans way too far out there  on  the  " I'm out to scare the heck outta  you "  factor  about Dust Control .

 

[PaulMarcel]

So in your opinion the ClearVue Cyclone & blower is not a good product ?

I never said anything of the sort. I was commenting on the marketing tactics used by several companies, not just ClearVue. I have a strong disdain for deceptive marketing or scare tacticts.

Even that air purifier I mentioned above, isn't a bad product. I had one for a while (my wife bought one at 1/2-price) and it was effective in what it should have done. The problem with it back then is that the manufacturer claimed it could "reach out in a 50-foot radius and knock particles out of the air".

I'm not a " little buckaroo " or a noob when it come being around industrial processes as me being in  another life in the aerospace field  as aircraft mechanic .
I am very safety aware & have made it this far by being so 

As I stated at the time, that was intended in jest. It was in reference to a humorous line in an old 1985 movie. I've now figured out why I couldn't find a clip of that line being said....it never existed!  [scared] After 30 years, my brain morphed what the character had originally said into what I wrote. Boy was I off!  [tongue] The scene I thought I was quoting occurs at 1:08 in this compilation video of "The Best of Charles Demar".

That's my all-time favorite movie, too.  Lost track of how many times I saw it.

At 1:47 they cut the funniest line! "it's a damn shame when people be throwing out a perfectly good white boy".  I know what I'm watching, again, this Thanksgiving weekend!

 

[Rick Christopherson]

So do you have a opinion on the ClearVue  ?

As for the Bill Pentz site : I find he leans way too far out there  on  the  " I'm out to scare the heck outta  you "  factor  about Dust Control .

No, I do not have an opinion on ClearVue. They didn't invent the cyclone, nor did they revolutionize it.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

At 1:47 they cut the funniest line! "it's a darn shame when people be throwing out a perfectly good white boy".  I know what I'm watching, again, this Thanksgiving weekend!

Yup, I was noticing that they cut that line too. One of the funnier lines in the whole movie, although there are many. What surprises me is that you haven't made a "Ricky" joke yet. Too late. I already brought it up, so you can't.  [big grin]

I haven't been able to find it for years, and now that all of the video stores around here have closed, I figured I would never see it again. Well, I just found a copy on the internet. I think I'll watch it while I make a few guides tonight. So if any of my customers get a guide built backward, I guess they'll know why.  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

 

[amt]

"Go that way, really fast.  If something gets in your way, turn."

 

[canadamike]

I have the ClearVue 1800, been using it for about 5 years, I bought it from the original founders of Clearvue (who actually commercialized Bill Pentz's research, I believe).

I am very happy with it, I am running a 15" planer, 8" jointer, Sawstop Pro, 18" bandsaw and a couple thickness sanders, all tied to the Clearvue with 8 and 6" piping. All my festools are tied into a CT33 with a grounded Dust Deputy. The shop is almost dust free. At the time, I chose the Clearvue over the Onieda because of the options available to customize the Clearvue, as well as the excellent support from the guys at Clearvue.

Nothing to do with impeller (I did not know about the aluminum or steel impeller). Not that this is an issue for me - I sure don't want to cut steel screws with my Sawstop!

If you take your time with the assembly, you'll have a very good dust collection system that you can adapt to your needs. Bottom line - the shop is almost dust free. If you have any questions, send me an email, I'd also be happy to talk to you on the phone.

Mike

 

[PaulMarcel]

I have the VHS if you need it

...and after this conference call I was just in, I need a monster eggnog made with lighter fluid.

 

[Slappy]

I have the ClearVue 1800, been using it for about 5 years, I bought it from the original founders of Clearvue (who actually commercialized Bill Pentz's research, I believe).

I am very happy with it, I am running a 15" planer, 8" jointer, Sawstop Pro, 18" bandsaw and a couple thickness sanders, all tied to the Clearvue with 8 and 6" piping. All my festools are tied into a CT33 with a grounded Dust Deputy. The shop is almost dust free. At the time, I chose the Clearvue over the Onieda because of the options available to customize the Clearvue, as well as the excellent support from the guys at Clearvue.

Nothing to do with impeller (I did not know about the aluminum or steel impeller). Not that this is an issue for me - I sure don't want to cut steel screws with my Sawstop!

If you take your time with the assembly, you'll have a very good dust collection system that you can adapt to your needs. Bottom line - the shop is almost dust free. If you have any questions, send me an email, I'd also be happy to talk to you on the phone.

Mike

email sent
ThanX

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I have the VHS if you need it

...and after this conference call I was just in, I need a monster eggnog made with lighter fluid.

That VHS tape must be worth about what.........TWO DOLLARS?

 

[John Stevens]

Given the lack of a 'like' button on this forum, I'd have hit 'like' 4 times on this thread for Rick's input. Thx.

Same, thanks again, Rick.

--John

 

[greg mann]

Given the lack of a 'like' button on this forum, I'd have hit 'like' 4 times on this thread for Rick's input. Thx.

Same, thanks again, Rick.

--John

I'll toss my hat into the 'like' column as well. Too many notions gain traction as 'facts' on the Internet. We are talking about cyclones here aren't we? If so, can someone explain to me how nails or screws are going to encounter the impeller? Does Newton's Law of gravity not apply somehow? If gravity can cause sawdust to fall out of the airstream how on earth will a nail not fall out as well? Unless this is happening somewhere not on Earth.

 

[leakyroof]

Given the lack of a 'like' button on this forum, I'd have hit 'like' 4 times on this thread for Rick's input. Thx.

Same, thanks again, Rick.

--John

I'll toss my hat into the 'like' column as well. Too many notions gain traction as 'facts' on the Internet. We are talking about cyclones here aren't we? If so, can someone explain to me how nails or screws are going to encounter the impeller? Does Newton's Law of gravity not apply somehow? If gravity can cause sawdust to fall out of the airstream how on earth will a nail not fall out as well? Unless this is happening somewhere not on Earth.

    Good point, I was refering to simple single stage dust collector impellers and the various blade material that they use.
With two stage systems, as you pointed out, it's hard to imagine any large particle or loose object making it to the impeller in the first place since that's the whole point of using a cyclone.. Keeping the big chips and fine dust out of the filter

 

[greg mann]

Slappy indicated early in the thread he planned to put the impeller and motor above a cyclone to create a two stage system. I guess maybe it is still a one stage given that he plans on venting outside with no filter, but the point here is that the impeller will suck everything through the cyclone. I did exactly the same thing a few weeks ago. Taking a Jet single stage collector, I buit a frame on the cart to suspend the impeller opening directly above an Onieda cyclone with the six inch inlet in line with the cyclone's 6 inch outlet. I coupled them with a Fernco (sp?) rubber coupling. The cyclone outlet then goes into the original bag and filter set that came with the Jet. I figure I could fill the cyclone by accident and the bag will let me know if I've been stupid. [embarassed]

One issue I was concerned with was whether the motor had strong enough thrust bearings to take the weight of the impeller in a vertical orientation as opposed to the original horizontal. I felt that even in the horizontal mode the impeller would exert very significant thrust on the bearings by virtue of the high negative pressure on the working side of the impeller, so I am conveniently operating under the assumption the thrust bearings in the motor should already be robust. If I am wrong and the motor fails it won't be very convenient but I at least will be able to offer an opinion on what not to do.  [unsure]

Lastly, I pondered how best to make removing the dust-bin easy for dumping. I came up with an idea of mounting the motor on 8020 linear bearing with a pulley arrangement above, whereby I could unclamp the bin and winch the whole cyclone assembly up a bit to slide the dus-bin out. It was brilliant, I think, but I haven't done it yet so the jury is out. I just mounted the cyclone assembly high enough to 'stretch' the rubber coupling a bit and make it easier to lift it all when I need to. I think I am being too optimistic but time will tell. When I build my retirement shop I will do the 8020 trick and post pics.  :