240 volt dust extractor with a 110volt port - does it exist

[Pbellamy]

I’m US based and have quite a tool collection, but I’m moving to the UK. Is there a 240bolt dust extractor that could run my 110volt tools?

I was thinking it would be amazing to not have to sell off my tools just to rebuy them in the UK and less hassle than running a separate 110volt workshop in the UK.

I can do without the whole ‘sell your tools’ replies, just asking if there is an option for this circumstance.

 

[timwors]

I’ve not seen such a device (I am UK based). Judging by how much a high-powered step down transformer costs (and how heavy it is) I would imagine it would result in a very costly and bulky dust extractor.

In the UK you can get 240V to 110V transformers with one or two US outlets on them, with varying power capacities, e.g. at TLC Direct (link) but they can get quite expensive.

 

[dalep]

No, just get a 110 transformer here any buy a 110 dust extractor

 

[Ron B]

In theory, 240 is just two legs of 120 and a ground. So if he could hook up to just one of the 120 legs and the ground, he should be able to run 120.  I am not an electrician, just using common sense.  If your plug has two legs going to it now, and if you disconnected one leg, then you have 120. 

I do not know how this would affect electronics. I still remember car when  light dimmer switches on the floor, and the phone was on the wall.  So no, I do not try to keep up with the latests Apps. I just found out last month that I could not paint with oil paints around my new water heater I had just installed.  Had to order a new vapor sensor element. 

 

[alltracman78]

In theory, 240 is just two legs of 120 and a ground. So if he could hook up to just one of the 120 legs and the ground, he should be able to run 120.  I am not an electrician, just using common sense.  If your plug has two legs going to it now, and if you disconnected one leg, then you have 120. 

I do not know how this would affect electronics. I still remember car when  light dimmer switches on the floor, and the phone was on the wall.  So no, I do not try to keep up with the latests Apps. I just found out last month that I could not paint with oil paints around my new water heater I had just installed.  Had to order a new vapor sensor element.

No way man. On multiple levels.
Over here (in the US) it (kind of) works that way because we normally use 120. We get 240 by combining 2 120 volt circuits. If you take 2 120 volt wires that are out of phase (split phase) they can take turns being the hot and neutral wires so you don't need a dedicated neutral.
Your ground wire (bare copper or green) is only a safety and shouldn't be carrying current. It's designed to quickly overheat the circuit breaker (or fuse) if there's a short.
It would technically work because the neutral and ground go to the same place. But it would be a massive safety hazard because it isn't normally considered to be carrying current so it's not "safetied" the same. If you have metal boxes they're tied to the ground for example and would be live any time the circuit was in use. It also would trip any AFI/GFI circuits.
To get 120 out of 240 over here you need to have a neutral also (that's where the 4 wire/4 hole receptacle 240 volt circuit comes in).

In the UK their 240 volts is single phase. 1 hot 240 volt wire, 1 neutral wire. You can't split them up.

 

[AstroKeith]

In theory, 240 is just two legs of 120 and a ground. So if he could hook up to just one of the 120 legs and the ground, he should be able to run 120.  I am not an electrician, just using common sense.  If your plug has two legs going to it now, and if you disconnected one leg, then you have 120. 

I do not know how this would affect electronics. I still remember car when  light dimmer switches on the floor, and the phone was on the wall.  So no, I do not try to keep up with the latests Apps. I just found out last month that I could not paint with oil paints around my new water heater I had just installed.  Had to order a new vapor sensor element.

No! on some many levels.
As has been said, it's not safe. Plus it won't work...
In the UK our 240V live is 240 volt with respect to both Earth and Natural.
It is now mandatory (and wise) to have RCCDs (GFIs in the US) and this would trip immediately.

Actually our 240V is just one leg of three phase 480V, which is how it is usually distributed to the local transformer.

 

[Coen]

[...]
Actually our 240V is just one leg of three phase 480V, which is how it is usually distributed to the local transformer.

Is it? sqrt(3)*230 = 400V, not 480
240V might be between neutral and one phase of split-fase (180 degrees) 480, not not from three-phase (120 degrees)

In some parts of Europe, mainly some parts of Belgium that I know off, they use two phases of 133V (phase-ground) to get to sqrt(3)*133=230V

Or historically 127V, getting to 220V when connected in between. These systems might or might not be provided with a neutral. From the past, 127V was the actual used voltage. In some parts they replaced the transformers to get 230, in some parts they connected in between phases. The former had to be accompanied by everyone adjusting all their electric devices, the latter could be done house by house.

Note that in Europe there usually are a lot more customers per transformer. They are on street-level with the medium voltage grid all sub-surface. The low voltage cabling is again sub-surface. Older transformer stations in beautiful brick 'houses', newer compacter ones in concrete 'bunkers'. The USA-common pole-mounted transformer is the odd thing to find here.
But across Europe there are large differences. If you cross the border from the Netherlands to Germany the first thing you might notice is the presence of above-ground low-voltage wiring.

The Netherlands never had it's medium voltage grid above ground, Belgium did have that. You can find many transformer stations there with a small tower, that served as entrance point for the pole-mounted medium voltage grid.

 

[Ron B]

In theory, 240 is just two legs of 120 and a ground.

I stand corrected. Forget everything I said.  I was thinking on my side of the pond, and forgot how different both sides are in so many things.  Do you have 3-phase readily available to residential and farm?  That would definitely be a plus.  Anyway, apologize for sticking my nose into something I did not fully understand. 

 

[Coen]

In theory, 240 is just two legs of 120 and a ground.

I stand corrected. Forget everything I said.  I was thinking on my side of the pond, and forgot how different both sides are in so many things.  Do you have 3-phase readily available to residential and farm?  That would definitely be a plus.  Anyway, apologize for sticking my nose into something I did not fully understand.

Also differs per country. In NL most houses, even if they have a single phase connection, the cable to the home is already 3-phase and when you pay the grid company ~€300 they will replace the meter, add two fuses and a few wires and you have your 3-phase connection. New builds 3x25A by default (*).. Common mains connection here is single phase 35A (fuse) or 40A (MCB). Three phase 25A (fuse if old / upgraded, MCB if new / replaced) is the same fixed price per year. Older single-phase 25A connections usually upgraded to 35A for free.
In the UK they have a history of electric resistive heating which we don't have in NL; their connections are often bigger, 100A(+) single phase. As far is I know getting a 3-phase home connection in the UK requires usually the cable to the home to be upgraded. From what I can find for prices in the UK to get 3-phase it starts out at 6-7 times more expensive than in NL.

 

[AstroKeith]

In theory, 240 is just two legs of 120 and a ground.

I stand corrected. Forget everything I said.  I was thinking on my side of the pond, and forgot how different both sides are in so many things.  Do you have 3-phase readily available to residential and farm?  That would definitely be a plus.  Anyway, apologize for sticking my nose into something I did not fully understand.

Also differs per country. In NL most houses, even if they have a single phase connection, the cable to the home is already 3-phase and when you pay the grid company ~€300 they will replace the meter, add two fuses and a few wires and you have your 3-phase connection. New builds 3x25A by default (*).. Common mains connection here is single phase 35A (fuse) or 40A (MCB). Three phase 25A (fuse if old / upgraded, MCB if new / replaced) is the same fixed price per year. Older single-phase 25A connections usually upgraded to 35A for free.
In the UK they have a history of electric resistive heating which we don't have in NL; their connections are often bigger, 100A(+) single phase. As far is I know getting a 3-phase home connection in the UK requires usually the cable to the home to be upgraded. From what I can find for prices in the UK to get 3-phase it starts out at 6-7 times more expensive than in NL.

You're right, its not 480Vac, in theory 400 but for some reason its 415. My mind was locked into factors of two!
80A is the typical UK domestic feed at 230V and I've never seen anything more than single phase bought in from the street.

I once got an old workshop lathe for free, which was 3 phase. The cost of bringing in 3 phase was more than a new lathe. I changed the motor to single phase.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

As far is I know getting a 3-phase home connection in the UK requires usually the cable to the home to be upgraded.

Correct. Last year, I installed a kitchen in the home of a lady who was a commercial cake baker (for weddings etc.) - she had a wall of 10 x Neff 5kW ovens installed. The supply cable upgrade from the nearest substation (less than 100m away) cost her an additional £12k.

 

[Coen]

As far is I know getting a 3-phase home connection in the UK requires usually the cable to the home to be upgraded.

Correct. Last year, I installed a kitchen in the home of a lady who was a commercial cake baker (for weddings etc.) - she had a wall of 10 x Neff 5kW ovens installed. The supply cable upgrade from the nearest substation (less than 100m away) cost her an additional £12k.

Huuh, so not even the cable in the street is three-phase? That's some inefficiency right there.

Even if homes are connected single-phase here the cable to the homes is often already three phase, and even if it isn't, the cable in the street is, connecting every third home to the same phase. New cable to the street is usually €1200

 

[mino]

Huuh, so not even the cable in the street is three-phase? That's some inefficiency right there.

Even if homes are connected single-phase here the cable to the homes is often already three phase, and even if it isn't, the cable in the street is, connecting every third home to the same phase. New cable to the street is usually €1200

Same in here (CZ). I guess it has to do with the original electrification in Central Europe going 3-phase AC from the get go. There were pretty much no signifficant residential DC installs that I know of. Pretty much "every garage" has 3-phase 380/400V wiring here, if not the meter.

The only place I have seen 1P is in appartment blocks from the 30s-80s period. There the building was still 3P/400 but flats are distributed among the phases. That is only becase the most basic

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Even if homes are connected single-phase here the cable to the homes is often already three phase, and even if it isn't, the cable in the street is, connecting every third home to the same phase. New cable to the street is usually €1200

Maybe so in The Netherlands (near Germany). But here - our cables are buried at least 2m deep under paving, trees, roads, gardens, driveways, and other stuff. It costs £12k per 100m because the job needs an excavator, two skilled electricians, plus three groundworkers for three days. Plus a world of consents, permissions, compensations and paperwork. Don't even think about how deep our underground water and natural gas pipes are .......

 

[Pbellamy]

This has gone down a rabbit hole. Anyone have a view on the original question?

 

[timwors]

With reference to my previous answer, your best bet would be to plug in a 110V transformer to the 240V outlet on the dust extractor, and plug your 110V tools into that. There are lots of 240V-110V transformer options available in the UK, some of which have US sockets on them.

 

[alltracman78]

Assuming he already has a dust collector, it would be easier (and cheaper) to just get the transformer and plug the collector into that.

 

[nvalinski]

I may be entirely incorrect/suggesting something unsafe, but is it possible to just get a new plug-it lead in the UK and use your existing tools with a new cord? Otherwise, just a matter of selling your current extractor in the US and buying a new one in the UK to upgrade that to 240V. I believe the tools are all rated for 50/60 Hz with 120-240V, but I don't know how interchangeable that actually is or if there are other considerations/safety features build in the UK/Euro versions of the tools that wouldn't let that work.

 

[squall_line]

I believe the tools are all rated for 50/60 Hz with 120-240V.

This is a mistaken belief.

There may be a lot of tools rated for 50/60 Hz, but not for 120/240V.

 

[Coen]

I may be entirely incorrect/suggesting something unsafe, but is it possible to just get a new plug-it lead in the UK and use your existing tools with a new cord? Otherwise, just a matter of selling your current extractor in the US and buying a new one in the UK to upgrade that to 240V. I believe the tools are all rated for 50/60 Hz with 120-240V, but I don't know how interchangeable that actually is or if there are other considerations/safety features build in the UK/Euro versions of the tools that wouldn't let that work.

Your first stated belief is just wrong. All the stated unknowns then become irrelevant.  [smile]