30% of all framing lumber comes from Canada.

[Packard]

Canadian lumber, which includes spruce and pine, are now subject to a 25% tariff. 

All of that cost may not be tacked onto the selling price of lumber as the importer may decide to underwrite part of that cost to keep goods flowing. 

Framing lumber, fortunately has competition.  Steel studs.  I am not a fan of steel studs.  Yes they are straight and true.  Yes, they are light weight and easily installed.  Are they approved for construction in all jurisdictions?  Can they carry a load?

A friend’s kitchen was lightly damaged due to a kitchen fire.  But he had to replace not only the drywall, but also the steel studs (which looked fine).  The heat from the fire compromised the strength of the steel studs.  Wood studs would have been immune from that damage. 

If 30% of our wall stud lumber is subject to a 25% tariff, what would that mean in end cost?  I’m not sure what other factors are involved.  The math is above my pay grade. 

Besides steel studs, what are our options?

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi [member=74278]Packard[/member],

You're unlikely to see builders move away from softwood framing lumber any time soon. The reasons are numerous, but suffice it to say that builders don't have a reputation for being particularly progressive, and there is enough risk involved with building to begin with that they are loath to introduce yet another variable.

I suspect we will see framing lumber prices increase by a non-trivial amount. From there, we'll have to see. There's a segment of the market which is pretty cost insensitive, and the framing lumber generally comprises a relatively small percentage of the overall cost of a new home, so I suspect most of the custom home builders, remodelers, and associated customers will be fine. The market segment which will bear the initial brunt will be lower-cost housing and multi-family.

Let's not forget that during the height of COVID when studs were $10/ea (or whatever they were) that many builders were as busy as ever, and simply passed along the costs to the customers who could afford to pay those prices.

What remains to be seen is the rest of the products which go into a home, for instance the promised increase in cost for aluminum, steel, and particularly copper...

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm sure it is location-based, but there must be some kind of issue with steel studs? Around here, they are only used in commercial buildings. I don't know that they are restricted in residential housing, but I have never seen it done.
The thing is, in recent years, I see a lot more wood studs in commercial buildings, that would have been steel before. I have no idea what is going on, it's out of my range, but I find it curious.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I'm sure it is location-based, but there must be some kind of issue with steel studs? Around here, they are only used in commercial buildings. I don't know that they are restricted in residential housing, but I have never seen it done.
The thing is, in recent years, I see a lot more wood studs in commercial buildings, that would have been steel before. I have no idea what is going on, it's out of my range, but I find it curious.

There's a movement away from steel and concrete towards mass timber (CLT) construction in Europe, and I believe the commercial code in North America was updated to allow for wood-framed mass timber structures up to 13 stories. I just heard a story the other day about the USA military exploring modular CLT construction for temporary, earthquake-resistant structures.

I visited a CLT factory in Germany in March 2024, it's really quite an impressive product, and one I think we'll see more widespread once folks understand the process and product.

 

[semenza]

A friend’s kitchen was lightly damaged due to a kitchen fire.  But he had to replace not only the drywall, but also the steel studs (which looked fine).  The heat from the fire compromised the strength of the steel studs.  Wood studs would have been immune from that damage. 

      Not sure this means the steel studs are an inferior choice due to the heat compromising the strength. Depending on the fire there is a good chance the wood studs would have burned. Seems like either would likely need replacing.

      The steel, even though it may have a higher need for replacement after a small fire, is probably a better choice to prevent a small fire from turning into a big fire.

    Not sure which I would choose if building a new structure. I would need to investigate all the factors for that
decision.

Seth

 

[rst]

I use steel studs and hat channel for anything I am building, as most of the last 45 years I’ve been involved with commercial construction.  I started in the early 80s remodeling our house.  Steel hat channel for leveling walls and ceilings makes shimming 100 year old houses simple.

 

[peter halle]

Let's keep this non-political please.

But to answer your question, honestly I believe that thee will come a day when steel framing for homes becomes more favorable.  Within the past twenty years there was a time when it would have been cost effective to build the non-load bearing wall portions of a home less expensively than with wood.  But you use what you are used to.  I framed out a basement for a friend who happened to be the guy who supervised the construction of my first new home.  He really hadn't seen it done on a residential project and his drywallers were really schocked, especially when I used the tricks I saw being used on commercial projects.  It turner out cheaper for him at that time and more easily done by one guy versus a crew.

The real issue comes when the structural portion comes into play and if the designer / architect will utilize an engineer to spec the materials and blocking / bracing details in critical areas.

Peter

 

[rst]

The other point to realize is that steel framing is available in heavier gauges than the commonly available 22-26.  I came into some 18ga that I framed my sidewalks in 36 years ago. I used them and 4” x 8’ strips of 1/4” ABS, I had bought a skid of offcuts from my plastic supplier for $10.00. I still have 12” strips after all this time.  ABS is practically indestructible, I used a lot for lawn borders as I could pound them in with an engineers hammer

 

[Packard]

Some 35 years ago, I framed my darkroom using steel studs because after going through half of Home Depot’s stock I only found 3 studs that were not bowed or twisted.

The steel studs were actually easier to use and would be even easier today.

Back then I did not have a drill/driver with a torque clutch.  Nowadays, I would not over-tighten and strip the screws.

And I now have a horizontal band saw that makes cutting to length a breeze.  I think, if I ever do any framing again, I would go back to steel.

But, where I live, if you are finishing a basement, the base plate has to be “green”, i.e., pressure treated.  Would that be the same if framing in the basement using steel studs?

 

[Holzhacker]

I converted from wood 2x4's to metal studs for interior wall framing back in the 90's. Did it mainly for cost savings. Back then a 3/58", i.e 2x4 stud was around $1 a piece. Wood was double that or more. Easier to work with, no drilling for pipe holes. Worked out great for under bidding the competition. Got me a lot of framing jobs I might have otherwise lost on.
Now metal studs cost more than wood. I don't use them anymore unless someone specifically asks or there is a specific reason. Since for general framing in a house, the studs aren't load bearing I would be suspect of someone claiming you have to replace them because the fire compromised their structural integrity. Might be a bigger issue for the heavier gauge studs for perimeter load framing. If it weren't for the cost, I would use mostly metal studs.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

But, where I live, if you are finishing a basement, the base plate has to be “green”, i.e., pressure treated.  Would that be the same if framing in the basement using steel studs?

(Snip)

Hi Packard,

With the caveat that of course local codes will vary, and ultimately are left up to the interpretation of the local code enforcement official, I can share that here in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area basement walls do not necessarily require a green treated bottom plate. I've finished numerous basements using a teal/bluish-colored borate treated plate which is rated for contact with a masonry surface, but is not rated for exterior or ground contact. These plates were great, since they were dry (as opposed to the ACQ stuff which can sometimes be sopping wet), and was the same dimension as the studs (green treated is often swollen or otherwise oversized).

There is also pink-tinted lumber available which has a fire-resistance rating, really handy when building near fireplaces and chimneys.

There is a code for steel plates in direct contact with masonry below grade, fortunately I don't have to explore that part of the code book very often, seems like a bad neighborhood  [tongue]

In terms of "curved" (crowned) studs, standard practice is to mark the crown, and position the studs so the crown of all of the studs are oriented in the same direction (I was taught to position the crown "out"). The concessions set aside for framing lumber aren't intended to produce straight studs so much as they are intended to produce lumber which meets a certain grade once milled, and a "straight" stud will usually move around once in the finished space anyways. So, rather than searching for ostensibly "straight" lumber, I instead look at the end grain and knots to predict how the stud will move, and install appropriately, with the understanding that if I need dead-straight there are other wood products available. 

For kitchen walls or homes with raking light where dead-straight walls are required there are a variety of engineered studs such as LSLs which are dead-straight and can support heavy loads.

 

[Packard]

A friend’s kitchen was lightly damaged due to a kitchen fire.  But he had to replace not only the drywall, but also the steel studs (which looked fine).  The heat from the fire compromised the strength of the steel studs.  Wood studs would have been immune from that damage. 

      Not sure this means the steel studs are an inferior choice due to the heat compromising the strength. Depending on the fire there is a good chance the wood studs would have burned. Seems like either would likely need replacing.

      The steel, even though it may have a higher need for replacement after a small fire, is probably a better choice to prevent a small fire from turning into a big fire.

    Not sure which I would choose if building a new structure. I would need to investigate all the factors for that
decision.

Seth

The fire just charred the walls.  Heat will anneal (soften) work-hardened steel and compromise the strength.  The studs would look fine, but would not have the same strength. 

On the other hand, wood studs can have a light charring and still be structurally sound.  In my friend’s house, the heat would likely not have been sufficient to char the studs. 

It just goes against what we (the public) think of steel.  Steel does not burn, so it should do well in a fire.  Wood does burn and would do poorly.  That is not necessarily the case. 

I believe that most office buildings rely on steel beams for structure and the walls are non-structural—they just divide the open space into smaller spaces. 

My cousin moved into a large NYC loft in the early 1970s and remodeling was simple.  Just put up walls where you want them. The structure (an older building) was taken care of by a combination of steel beams, concrete beams, and wood beams. 

The inspectors were mostly interested in the fire ratings for the building materials.

 

[mkasdin]

Probably better to post on Reddit vs here. It’s more of an open discussion on one of the sub/reddits than an off topic remark on FOG that obviously has some negative connotations. I agree it’s not family friendly.

 

[Muttley000]

For what it’s worth, I purchased about 70k of framing lumber last fall. All of the 2x6 and the 10’ 2x4’s were southern #1 yellow pine even though I only paid for spf (spruce pine fir).the guy at the yard told me that is what they receive more and more often.  I have read the southern US has become a bigger player in the framing lumber market, if that is true and depending on how much capacity is there that may help keep pricing in check.
I also have only experienced steel studs in industrial buildings, and in outdoor kitchens with barbecues built in.

 

[Cheese]

I purposely delayed the building of my garage when I originally wanted to because it was in the middle of the Covid era when framing materials and industrial supplies were in a shortage. I backed off for 3 years and when the garage was finally completed, the materials were $3000 less. That's not chump change.  [smile]  Timing is everything...always has been...always will be.

 

[semenza]

Had to do some editing to meet FOG guidelines.  Some how I knew that was going to happen despite both moderators warnings.

Appreciate those posting without comments that will take the topic off the rails. Sorry for any collateral damage.

Hope it sticks.

Seth

 

[Steve1]

Hi [member=74278]Packard[/member],
Let's not forget that during the height of COVID when studs were $10/ea (or whatever they were) that many builders were as busy as ever, and simply passed along the costs to the customers who could afford to pay those prices.

Can't always pass along the cost.
Consider the GC that quotes a new house build, signs a contract for building it at a fixed price, and before he can start framing, lumber prices go through the roof.

I recall during COVID, talking to a general contractor that was in exactly this position.

 

[peter halle]

Hi [member=74278]Packard[/member],
Let's not forget that during the height of COVID when studs were $10/ea (or whatever they were) that many builders were as busy as ever, and simply passed along the costs to the customers who could afford to pay those prices.

Can't always pass along the cost.
Consider the GC that quotes a new house build, signs a contract for building it at a fixed price, and before he can start framing, lumber prices go through the roof.

I recall during COVID, talking to a general contractor that was in exactly this position.

One would hope that the majority of Contractors like this will have learned from those kinds of experiences and included language in future contracts to include escalation clauses for both labor and also material cost fluctuations for reasons beyond their control.

Peter

 

[rst]

We got extremely fortunate in that we negotiated the cost of our 30x 36 pole building shop/garage in January, the year Covid broke.  The Mennonite builder quoted us $26,000 and we gave him $8000.00 for materials which he promptly ordered. By the time he started in late July, prices had already gone through the roof.  The only thing not acquired ahead was the concrete so we ended up with a building less door and overhead garage door.  I bought a commercial steel 42” door, that price had jumped from the $6-700 I had been paying for years to $1200.00. The overhead done had increased about $400.00 and we had to wait about 5 weeks for delivery.
I spoke with my local lumberyard, absolutely fantastic, cheaper than Lowes or the Borg store, they told me that costs would have been at least $10,000 more had we ordered 6 months later.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi [member=74278]Packard[/member],
Let's not forget that during the height of COVID when studs were $10/ea (or whatever they were) that many builders were as busy as ever, and simply passed along the costs to the customers who could afford to pay those prices.

Can't always pass along the cost.
Consider the GC that quotes a new house build, signs a contract for building it at a fixed price, and before he can start framing, lumber prices go through the roof.

I recall during COVID, talking to a general contractor that was in exactly this position.

As Peter Halle suggests, most builders will have escalation clauses in their contracts to cover such market fluctuations, passing the costs along to the consumer. The builders who don't have these clauses are out of business, they just don't know it yet....