3000mm Guide Rail curve
- Thread starter phmade
- Start date
its fair enough to say that wood moves etc and that there is such a small error not to be a problem.
the fact is there is a problem and the OP went looking for the cause so that small error is affecting something.
that moch error is not acceptable. the problem here is who damaged it. it could have fell or the delivery company manhandled it..
i would ring festool and see what they say
the fact is there is a problem and the OP went looking for the cause so that small error is affecting something.
that moch error is not acceptable. the problem here is who damaged it. it could have fell or the delivery company manhandled it..
i would ring festool and see what they say
waynelang2001
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My 3000 rail is also out that much but it was dropped by a worker of mine. For me it isn't a disaster but more often then not it is a pain to try and work with that much of a bow.
phmade
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Thanks for everyone who has replied - I really didn't expect this many responses. I am going to call festool today and see what they can do.
Just to clarify, the error is 0.059 - not quite 1/16" but much greater than 1/32. If I am trying to join two panels, that error is doubled if the bows are opposing - the gap in the middle would be 0.118! That's nearly an 1/8"! That's certainly not acceptable.
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume that I'm always ripping 8'L material because that's what I use 99% of the time. The error over the length of the rail isn't really a valid argument - the fact is that the error in the middle of the rail is 0.059". Harry_, your comment about 1/16" / 2 should actually be 1/16" x 2. Again, the maximum error occurs at the middle of the rail's length - although that doesn't matter much in my situation if I'm usually ripping 8'L pieces.
I should also state that I am very pleased with Festool in general - I have a shop full of their tools and I make my living with them. It just so happens that I've had a couple of bad experiences recently.
Just to clarify, the error is 0.059 - not quite 1/16" but much greater than 1/32. If I am trying to join two panels, that error is doubled if the bows are opposing - the gap in the middle would be 0.118! That's nearly an 1/8"! That's certainly not acceptable.
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume that I'm always ripping 8'L material because that's what I use 99% of the time. The error over the length of the rail isn't really a valid argument - the fact is that the error in the middle of the rail is 0.059". Harry_, your comment about 1/16" / 2 should actually be 1/16" x 2. Again, the maximum error occurs at the middle of the rail's length - although that doesn't matter much in my situation if I'm usually ripping 8'L pieces.
I should also state that I am very pleased with Festool in general - I have a shop full of their tools and I make my living with them. It just so happens that I've had a couple of bad experiences recently.
Michael Kellough
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To check the straightness of a rule you draw a line with the rule and then reverse the rule and align it with the end points of the line and draw another line. Any deviation of the lines is double the total bend in the rule. As pointed out you can't use the rubber strip to draw the line and since the hard side of the guide rail has a partially rounded profile you have to be careful to keep the pencil at the same angle the full length of the line.
Plywood may not move much after it is cut but it certainly can move when it is cut. And I don't from inadequate clamping. I often find plywood with internal tension from unequally dried core layers. In a bad piece I rip a sheet down the middle and butt the halves together and there is a 1/16" gap in the middle and I have to rip again just to get a straight edge on each half. And that is with a straight guide rail. So, you can't judge a guide rail by the plywood cut with it, at least not until you make a second pass.
With a 3000mm guide rail there is enough flexibility in the aluminum to accumulate a bend. If you are sure you have a bend you can keep that in mind as you set the rail and try to flex it back to straight. Put 2 or 3 pieces of wax paper under the middle of the guide rail and give the rail (lightly secure the ends with spring clamps) and push (or pull) the rail and pull the wax paper out while you hold the guide rail in place. You should get most of a small bend out this way and the rail should stay put if the foam strips and work surface are clean.
Plywood may not move much after it is cut but it certainly can move when it is cut. And I don't from inadequate clamping. I often find plywood with internal tension from unequally dried core layers. In a bad piece I rip a sheet down the middle and butt the halves together and there is a 1/16" gap in the middle and I have to rip again just to get a straight edge on each half. And that is with a straight guide rail. So, you can't judge a guide rail by the plywood cut with it, at least not until you make a second pass.
With a 3000mm guide rail there is enough flexibility in the aluminum to accumulate a bend. If you are sure you have a bend you can keep that in mind as you set the rail and try to flex it back to straight. Put 2 or 3 pieces of wax paper under the middle of the guide rail and give the rail (lightly secure the ends with spring clamps) and push (or pull) the rail and pull the wax paper out while you hold the guide rail in place. You should get most of a small bend out this way and the rail should stay put if the foam strips and work surface are clean.
Ken Nagrod
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Sometimes I just clamp a piece of something in the middle that presses against the middle of the guide rail to keep it from going out of line during my cut. You could also force the guide rail out that little bit to give a straight cut. I still think you should exchange it for a better one, whomever you need to talk with to resolve it.
Brice_Arnold
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Just thinking here; if these rails are so fragile can they be tuned up as well?
If you clamp the rail on both ends to a sheet of plywood can you use a bar/parallel clamp to pull on the center section of the rail to try and straighten it?
Maybe scribe a line on the plywood so you can see how far you have moved it/how far you need to move it.
Has anyone ever tried straightening a guide rail?
If you clamp the rail on both ends to a sheet of plywood can you use a bar/parallel clamp to pull on the center section of the rail to try and straighten it?
Maybe scribe a line on the plywood so you can see how far you have moved it/how far you need to move it.
Has anyone ever tried straightening a guide rail?
Ken Nagrod
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That's what I was talking about with the other Brice, but I suggested using two large trees as anchor points. Your way is probably better.
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I would think that plastic deformation of the aluminum is undesirable, whether on purpose or accident.
Tom
Tom
Brice_Arnold
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Tom Bellemare said:
It could be a good thing as well. Cold working the material will actually make it stronger and less likely to deform later on. I figure if the rail is already deformed (this is not specific to the OP) and out of warranty then you have nothing to lose. A deformed rail is pretty much useless.
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You have a point there, Brice.
Tom
Tom
Ted Miller
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phmade, I too have had bad cuts with the same rail as you. First 5 or 6 rips I figured I did not know how to use the rail, cuts were not straight. At one point I would rip the sheets over sized, then take them over to the table saw and rip to size.
Now I just don't bother with the rail, I just rip the sheets down on the table saw as I have done for many years. Time consuming to set up the rail/TS and elevate the sheet off the work table.
The table saw is just quicker and more precise for me...
Now I just don't bother with the rail, I just rip the sheets down on the table saw as I have done for many years. Time consuming to set up the rail/TS and elevate the sheet off the work table.
The table saw is just quicker and more precise for me...
I am very interested in this thread as I have just paid AU$500 for a new 3 metre guide rail.
By the way, that's a cheap price, as Festool Australia are having a 20 percent discount on their accessories here.
Normal price is AU$630.
I expect my 3 metre guide rail to be perfect.
I will not accept half a millimetre out.
It is either right or it is wrong.
It's as simple as that.
I feel sorry for the original poster, as this is an expensive piece of aluminium.
May I ask why you did not contact Festool directly, or your retailer who sold you the rail, as soon you realised the problem? I assume you would have noticed this problem the same day you received the rail. Or did you not check the rail straight away?
Thank you for bringing this subject to our attention.
I will certainly be checking my rail with another 3 metre aluminium straight edge.
i will be happy to report back here, once I have received mine in 2 weeks time.
Thanks again, Justin.
By the way, that's a cheap price, as Festool Australia are having a 20 percent discount on their accessories here.
Normal price is AU$630.
I expect my 3 metre guide rail to be perfect.
I will not accept half a millimetre out.
It is either right or it is wrong.
It's as simple as that.
I feel sorry for the original poster, as this is an expensive piece of aluminium.
May I ask why you did not contact Festool directly, or your retailer who sold you the rail, as soon you realised the problem? I assume you would have noticed this problem the same day you received the rail. Or did you not check the rail straight away?
Thank you for bringing this subject to our attention.
I will certainly be checking my rail with another 3 metre aluminium straight edge.
i will be happy to report back here, once I have received mine in 2 weeks time.
Thanks again, Justin.
I have just received my 3 metre Festool guide rail and I can happily report that mine is 100 percent perfect.
I have used 2 other aluminium straight edges to confirm it is dead straight.
If it had been quarter of a millimetre out, I would have been calling my local Festool rep to come take a look, but it is absolutely perfect.
I am still keen to hear from the original poster with regards to when you realised your rail was faulty.
And once again, thanks for bringing this subject to our attention.
Regards, Justin.
I have used 2 other aluminium straight edges to confirm it is dead straight.
If it had been quarter of a millimetre out, I would have been calling my local Festool rep to come take a look, but it is absolutely perfect.
I am still keen to hear from the original poster with regards to when you realised your rail was faulty.
And once again, thanks for bringing this subject to our attention.
Regards, Justin.
JFelchlin
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I'm a Festool user & advocate - Having bought most of Festool's products, including the TS-75 Saw. I regularly use the 1080/1400/1400-LR32 Guide Rails - But I needed something to make longer cuts. With limited shop space (and wanting to avoid the dangers) - A table saw is a "no go". The 3,000mm Guide Rail is just the thing.
I'd heard about a lot of problems with damage shipping this long extruded aluminum 3,000 Guide Rail.
The product arrived in a sturdy - Fiber board/wood on the ends - Package (I'll keep it and use it to store this Guide Rail).
Checked it for straightness with my 6 foot Empire metal level (accurate to 0.00050" per foot) - And found no gaps at all along the "aluminum side" of the Guide Rail.
Drew a line end to end along the "aluminum side" of the Guide Rail - Turned it 180 degrees - And repeted the process. Dead on.
You must, somehow, have a gotten a defect.
I'd heard about a lot of problems with damage shipping this long extruded aluminum 3,000 Guide Rail.
The product arrived in a sturdy - Fiber board/wood on the ends - Package (I'll keep it and use it to store this Guide Rail).
Checked it for straightness with my 6 foot Empire metal level (accurate to 0.00050" per foot) - And found no gaps at all along the "aluminum side" of the Guide Rail.
Drew a line end to end along the "aluminum side" of the Guide Rail - Turned it 180 degrees - And repeted the process. Dead on.
You must, somehow, have a gotten a defect.
festoolviking
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Hi all
Isn't this one of the applications where you should use the Gecko-clamps part no. 493507. That way you can keep your long rail steady halfway down the board.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9gu3rmylq65l2ww/Photo%202013-02-28%2018%2032%2034.png
Festoolviking
Isn't this one of the applications where you should use the Gecko-clamps part no. 493507. That way you can keep your long rail steady halfway down the board.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9gu3rmylq65l2ww/Photo%202013-02-28%2018%2032%2034.png
Festoolviking
ccarrolladams
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No, No, a thousand times No!
The Gecko clamps are designed for use on non-porous material, not plywood, MDF or similar materials.
If you wanted to use vacuum clamps along the length of a 3000mm or 50000mm guide rail while sawing plywood, they would need to use a vacuum pump. Outside North America Festool sells the Sys Vac, but it is not actually intended to clamp guide rails. Some of the vacuum clamps used in the solid surface industry could be adapted to hold rails, but considering the cost of those solid surfsce clamps, that would be a very extravagant way of dealing with a non-problem.
Nearly every day in my shop I use my 5000mm guide rail to saw plywood on angles such the cut is more than 10'. If the cut is short enough I use one of my 3000mm rails. Hardly ever do I use a guide rail to make saw cuts without clamping the rail at either end.
Yes, the guide rails have non-skid strips on the bottom, so if close is good enough, then give that a try. I do not, largely because the plywood I use is very expensive even in the large wholesale quantities I purchase. Devoting a few extra seconds to fastening two Festool clamps at either end seems a useful investment. I submit the very low scrap percentage in my business demonstrates clamping is sound business.
With the longer rails the clamps need to be onto the piece being cut, which will leave surplus rail at either end. I simply support that extra rail with spare off-cuts of the same material. As you can imagine in a busy cabinet shop we have a lot of off-cuts just waiting to be used.
So I set one clamp and support that end. Then before setting the other end clamp, I actually pull the guide rail taught.
Now, when I make the cut my TS55 is to my left side and I control it with my left hand, walking with the saw. This way I am not pushing the saw away from me and bending the rail, now am I pulling the saw toward me, which would also bend the rail.
Sure I have a sliding table saw large enough to cut 14' Some people do use them for breaking down sheet goods. When I bought that saw I thought I would use it for the miters and bevels which cannot be made on a pressure beam saw, which only makes right angles. Immediately I found more profitable uses for the slider saw and returned to using guide rails and TS55s for the miters and bevels. Often the far less expensive method turns out to be more effective and equally accurate. In the real world it takes two cabinet makers working a team to move a 10' sheet through a slider saw.
On the other hand, setting a guide rail using two clamps can be done by one cabinet maker. Or, if a helper/apprentice is available, handling one of the clamps becomes a marvelous learning experience.
The Gecko clamps are designed for use on non-porous material, not plywood, MDF or similar materials.
If you wanted to use vacuum clamps along the length of a 3000mm or 50000mm guide rail while sawing plywood, they would need to use a vacuum pump. Outside North America Festool sells the Sys Vac, but it is not actually intended to clamp guide rails. Some of the vacuum clamps used in the solid surface industry could be adapted to hold rails, but considering the cost of those solid surfsce clamps, that would be a very extravagant way of dealing with a non-problem.
Nearly every day in my shop I use my 5000mm guide rail to saw plywood on angles such the cut is more than 10'. If the cut is short enough I use one of my 3000mm rails. Hardly ever do I use a guide rail to make saw cuts without clamping the rail at either end.
Yes, the guide rails have non-skid strips on the bottom, so if close is good enough, then give that a try. I do not, largely because the plywood I use is very expensive even in the large wholesale quantities I purchase. Devoting a few extra seconds to fastening two Festool clamps at either end seems a useful investment. I submit the very low scrap percentage in my business demonstrates clamping is sound business.
With the longer rails the clamps need to be onto the piece being cut, which will leave surplus rail at either end. I simply support that extra rail with spare off-cuts of the same material. As you can imagine in a busy cabinet shop we have a lot of off-cuts just waiting to be used.
So I set one clamp and support that end. Then before setting the other end clamp, I actually pull the guide rail taught.
Now, when I make the cut my TS55 is to my left side and I control it with my left hand, walking with the saw. This way I am not pushing the saw away from me and bending the rail, now am I pulling the saw toward me, which would also bend the rail.
Sure I have a sliding table saw large enough to cut 14' Some people do use them for breaking down sheet goods. When I bought that saw I thought I would use it for the miters and bevels which cannot be made on a pressure beam saw, which only makes right angles. Immediately I found more profitable uses for the slider saw and returned to using guide rails and TS55s for the miters and bevels. Often the far less expensive method turns out to be more effective and equally accurate. In the real world it takes two cabinet makers working a team to move a 10' sheet through a slider saw.
On the other hand, setting a guide rail using two clamps can be done by one cabinet maker. Or, if a helper/apprentice is available, handling one of the clamps becomes a marvelous learning experience.
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