ghostofhoward
Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2009
- Messages
- 73
Ok, I just checked and I'm getting a consistent reading of 111 volts. So pretty low in the standard range
4 Kapex motors, now today my TS55 smoked
- Thread starter ghostofhoward
- Start date
Is this with load (like a kapex and a CT) connected to it, or line power at idle?ghostofhoward said:
In the latter case I suspect you'll see less when your tools are actually running from that line, which could explain the amount of tools that died on you (when the V shrink the A go up for the same W, especially tools with digital control who try to keep speed at the set RPM - leading to burnout).
Gregor said:
It is certainly not helpful.
The NEC spec is that power should be +/- 5% so less that 114 to your drop from the electric co. is low. If you've got an outside shop, older wiring or even too many devices already on the circuit, you could have 114V+ and have lost voltage in your house or shop.
NEMA writes the standards for devices that use the electricity. Here is a document that summarizes the ranges and what to expect.
https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/energystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf
of note:
Utilization equipment means stuff you plug into the wall like power tools and coffee makers.
It might be worthwhile to do some investigating to see where you might be dropping voltage.
If you have 100 feet of 14 gauge wire, that's a 3.75v drop. That's under ideal settings, you could get up to 6v drop.
Use 10 or 12 gauge, if you guys are worried about voltage.
Maybe you don't use much extension, but I have never not needed some on a job site.
Use 10 or 12 gauge, if you guys are worried about voltage.
Maybe you don't use much extension, but I have never not needed some on a job site.
ghostofhoward
Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2009
- Messages
- 73
That's at idle. Nothing else even plugged in to the circuit. In the panel I've got the same. I did call the power co and they are going to come confirm my reading. It's possible my meter calibration could be off and so they will check with their unit. I do know that 2 of the Kapex burnups were at jobsites. As far as extension cords...I've always been overly careful to use the correct gauges. Usually 12 gauge and always less than 50'
Leslie Ball
Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2018
- Messages
- 1
I just got my Kapex back from service for the same thing. Burnt armature. I've been doing carpentry for 15-20 years, and only twice have I ever burnt out an electric motor in a tool. The first was an Makita impact. That one I know was from pushing it past its intended use. The Kapex, was only ever used by 2 people. Indoor use only, always plugged in to a dedicated breaker with a CT 26, and rarely with an extension cord(if there was it was a 50' 12g). For comparison we run a 15A dewalt table saw through the same Vac and it is still running fine.
For the most part I treat my finishing tools well. They don't see a drop of rain. They get an hour to warm up when brought in from the cold. They get vacuumed out every other day. They stay clear of drywall dust, they are packed in cases for transit and or kept in a covered truck.
So, when business was good I bought good tools. I got 10 years out of my Makita miter saw(ls1017) before it wasn't accurate enough to do the finer finishing I started doing. It still runs. I just need something more accurate than it is. I looked around and I hummed and hawed and finally decided that if I got the similar lifespan out of a Kapex it would be worth it.
So, a UG stand, a few blades and now without the vacuum the list price of my setup is close to $4000. Don't get me wrong, I love the saw. The stand is great for any job that doesn't involve 3 flights of stairs. I'll never not have positive stops again. The saw cuts clean and accurately. Line of site is decent, minute changes in bevel cuts are easy, and dust collection is great.
But, for that price it has to last. It has to keep working. And if it does fail, I can't be without it for 2 weeks. So lets compare the saw alone to one of its competitors. The Kapex goes for $1920 CAN. Makita's closest competitor $620. Will the Makita do everything the Kapex can? From what I can tell yes with a few exceptions or compromises. The Makita controls(bevel, miter, ect.) seem good but not quite as good as the Kapex and I don't believe it has a speed adjustment. The larger arbor on the Kapex should in theory be better, so I would expect slightly more accurate cuts with the Kapex, but would the Makita make good enough cuts. It should.
In the past, I've had good luck with Festool. I've also got their TS55, CT26, and Carvex and till my Kapex died I've been more than happy with all of them. I was looking forward to adding more Festool to my collection as I needed it. But, if I'm only going to get 3 years out of a saw I need to reevaluate how I spend my money on tools.
So lets do the Math. With taxes in my old Makita ran for ten years at $70 a year. If this Kapex motor issue is a reoccurring problem every two years(~$260) that is about $130 a year not including purchase price. If I add the purchase price(I think I paid about $1650 CAN) and assume that I have to replace the armature every two years some of it under warranty, and keep the saw 10 years it costs me as follows:
(estimated original purchase price)+(years not under warranty)*(estimated yearly cost of repairs)=(total cost)/(expected lifespan)=(cost per year to run)
1650+7*130=$2560/10=$256 a year to run
So that's $256 a year for a Kapex vs $70 a year for another saw. Or if you prefer monthly thats $21.33 a month vs $5.83. If you work 21 days a month it works out to $0.74CAN a day over my old Makita on a 10 year span.
So all feelings aside the question is does it add 74 cents a day in value compared to the next best option?
For me, it might. Can I make that same decision on all my tools? No. If the repair bill is $700 to replace the housing too is it worth it? Probably not.
Should I check if the UG stand works with the new Makita? Probably. If I can't wait for my saw to be repaired this will be my backup plan. Should I need a backup plan for a $1900 saw? No.
For the most part I treat my finishing tools well. They don't see a drop of rain. They get an hour to warm up when brought in from the cold. They get vacuumed out every other day. They stay clear of drywall dust, they are packed in cases for transit and or kept in a covered truck.
So, when business was good I bought good tools. I got 10 years out of my Makita miter saw(ls1017) before it wasn't accurate enough to do the finer finishing I started doing. It still runs. I just need something more accurate than it is. I looked around and I hummed and hawed and finally decided that if I got the similar lifespan out of a Kapex it would be worth it.
So, a UG stand, a few blades and now without the vacuum the list price of my setup is close to $4000. Don't get me wrong, I love the saw. The stand is great for any job that doesn't involve 3 flights of stairs. I'll never not have positive stops again. The saw cuts clean and accurately. Line of site is decent, minute changes in bevel cuts are easy, and dust collection is great.
But, for that price it has to last. It has to keep working. And if it does fail, I can't be without it for 2 weeks. So lets compare the saw alone to one of its competitors. The Kapex goes for $1920 CAN. Makita's closest competitor $620. Will the Makita do everything the Kapex can? From what I can tell yes with a few exceptions or compromises. The Makita controls(bevel, miter, ect.) seem good but not quite as good as the Kapex and I don't believe it has a speed adjustment. The larger arbor on the Kapex should in theory be better, so I would expect slightly more accurate cuts with the Kapex, but would the Makita make good enough cuts. It should.
In the past, I've had good luck with Festool. I've also got their TS55, CT26, and Carvex and till my Kapex died I've been more than happy with all of them. I was looking forward to adding more Festool to my collection as I needed it. But, if I'm only going to get 3 years out of a saw I need to reevaluate how I spend my money on tools.
So lets do the Math. With taxes in my old Makita ran for ten years at $70 a year. If this Kapex motor issue is a reoccurring problem every two years(~$260) that is about $130 a year not including purchase price. If I add the purchase price(I think I paid about $1650 CAN) and assume that I have to replace the armature every two years some of it under warranty, and keep the saw 10 years it costs me as follows:
(estimated original purchase price)+(years not under warranty)*(estimated yearly cost of repairs)=(total cost)/(expected lifespan)=(cost per year to run)
1650+7*130=$2560/10=$256 a year to run
So that's $256 a year for a Kapex vs $70 a year for another saw. Or if you prefer monthly thats $21.33 a month vs $5.83. If you work 21 days a month it works out to $0.74CAN a day over my old Makita on a 10 year span.
So all feelings aside the question is does it add 74 cents a day in value compared to the next best option?
For me, it might. Can I make that same decision on all my tools? No. If the repair bill is $700 to replace the housing too is it worth it? Probably not.
Should I check if the UG stand works with the new Makita? Probably. If I can't wait for my saw to be repaired this will be my backup plan. Should I need a backup plan for a $1900 saw? No.
I'm not sure about the TS55, but all the excuses (extension cord, powered through vacuum, low/high voltage, 15 versus 20amp circuits, etc) for the failure rate of the Kapex's are non-excuses. The saws fail and fail frequently enough to be a regular topic on FOG. The motors on the saws are universal and will work with 110VAC to 120VAC +/- a margin. There is a saying (attributed to Einstein though there is not a consensus on this) "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity." In the case of the Kapex, having it repaired more than once for the same problem is insanity as is buying one knowing it's track record. For the record I have one and it was bought within the first few weeks of its availability in the US. Maybe I am lucky that mine has not failed (along with another a fellow co-worker's who has not failed either), but more than likely there has been a change to the motor or to the supplier that is causing this.
If only someone else made one as good for cutting... cause they don't. Another company could innovate to get to the same ability as a Kapex and walk away with the market.
Festool probably is stuck with having to retool all their molds and such for around the motor to fix it, so they're avoiding it.
Festool probably is stuck with having to retool all their molds and such for around the motor to fix it, so they're avoiding it.
sancho57
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2011
- Messages
- 7,089
Ive had my TS 55 for a lot of years it was the first Festool I bought. They are NA 110V. Bought in the USA.
Never had a issue with mine. It is my main Festool I use and my main saw I use it for about everything I would use a table saw for. I dont have a CMS with a TS 75 module and I dont use it for ripping small thin pieces and with the side extension table I dont use it for ripping and cross cutting wider pieces to.
I took my Festools for the UK and was there for almost 4 years and used them in my shop quite a bit. I borrowed a 3.3KV tranny and ran my tools, TS 75, TS 55 and Kapex on the same tranny. As Im one person they werent run simultaneously but you get the picture.
I didnt have a issue with any Festool even when using the tranny which caused the tools to run a bit slower, (didnt affect their ability to do the job but the rpm and power were a noticeably slower and less)
Maybe Ive been lucky I dunno since I had the TS55 since 2010 and the Kapex since around 2012. Only issue I had with the Kapex was with dust collection a little part that connects the small spring broke and since Ive been home trying to adj the Kapex to cut as square as my MFT does. The old style extension wings are a real pita to dial in. I think I got the Kapex finally adj to cut as square as the MFT. It took a bit of fooling around but I think I got it now. I was using the wood peckers 1281 square to check the square of the wood which might a tighter measurement then I should expect but I got them pretty darned close. I jointed the wood with my Jet jointer prior to cross cutting.
Never had a issue with mine. It is my main Festool I use and my main saw I use it for about everything I would use a table saw for. I dont have a CMS with a TS 75 module and I dont use it for ripping small thin pieces and with the side extension table I dont use it for ripping and cross cutting wider pieces to.
I took my Festools for the UK and was there for almost 4 years and used them in my shop quite a bit. I borrowed a 3.3KV tranny and ran my tools, TS 75, TS 55 and Kapex on the same tranny. As Im one person they werent run simultaneously but you get the picture.
I didnt have a issue with any Festool even when using the tranny which caused the tools to run a bit slower, (didnt affect their ability to do the job but the rpm and power were a noticeably slower and less)
Maybe Ive been lucky I dunno since I had the TS55 since 2010 and the Kapex since around 2012. Only issue I had with the Kapex was with dust collection a little part that connects the small spring broke and since Ive been home trying to adj the Kapex to cut as square as my MFT does. The old style extension wings are a real pita to dial in. I think I got the Kapex finally adj to cut as square as the MFT. It took a bit of fooling around but I think I got it now. I was using the wood peckers 1281 square to check the square of the wood which might a tighter measurement then I should expect but I got them pretty darned close. I jointed the wood with my Jet jointer prior to cross cutting.
ghostofhoward
Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2009
- Messages
- 73
Lots of great comments above, thanks for the responses. Couple of bits of info to add.
#1 Saw is back from Festool with a 8 day total turnaround (ship out to receive back). Armature, brushes, bearings replaced and a total of around $180 with shipping charges included.
#2 I took my multimeter to work and it's reading 110 at the jobsite which is a remodel job, not new construction. I'm assuming at this point that means my multimeter is off and needs calibration.
#1 Saw is back from Festool with a 8 day total turnaround (ship out to receive back). Armature, brushes, bearings replaced and a total of around $180 with shipping charges included.
#2 I took my multimeter to work and it's reading 110 at the jobsite which is a remodel job, not new construction. I'm assuming at this point that means my multimeter is off and needs calibration.
Similar threads
