$99 PRO 5 Sander Promotion + $50 Voucher - New Festool REQ Sanders (US)

[slalom]

On Friday I was at Lee Valley picking up some other items and the PRO 5 Sander just happened to be on my order sheet (I hate it when that that happens lol). I understand that the production run was about 25,000. I do not know if dealers were given an allotment or not. I did not see the post on the promotion being suspended until I got home.

It is a good deal, and it will be nice to have the $50 voucher towards my Domino (hope springs eternal). In the end if I am not one of the lucky ones to actually get a PRO 5, I guess I will have a few $ to put in my Domino savings account lol.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I'm looking forward to using the vouchers to replace my old metric-scale tools with the new Imperial versions!

It's tongue-in cheek guys...Kodi is just like me, he ditched all those outdated/old fashioned metric tools and replaced them with modern imperial versions. Thank God, someone's finally seen the light, and it's so much easier using fractions than decimals, now where was I...hmm, 3/32" equals .093" which equals how many millimeters again?

Finally, someone understands me!  Are you married?  :-* [tongue]

I haven't purchased a single ONE of these.  I considered buying ONE, but I already HAVE one.  I don't NEED one.  The one I do have, I haven't used for years.  I use the 150 series, and I have a stock of 150 paper.  I really don't want to stock 2 paper sizes.

This promotion really peeves me.  I've been a Festool customer for many years, and I've bought many tools.  Traditionally, Festool has had a very strict "no discount" policy.  Back when I was buying, Festool sales were as rare as hen's teeth.  I remember when Festool banned sales on eBay because Microsoft was offering a promotion through Bing and eBay.  Festool banned sales on eBay because an unaffiliated 3rd party was giving a promotional rebate.  Unbelievable adherence to the "no discount" policy.

Then Festool started offering periodic sales.  You couldn't plan on them, but once every blue moon some tool category would go on sale for 10% off.  People on this blog would go into a frenzy, myself included.  I have many tools that I bought during these "sale" periods, that I didn't really "need" but I bought because they were "on sale".  Those tools now sit unused.  They were a great deal now, weren't they? (Yes, for Festool).

Then there were the tools that I bought based on "need", and I paid full price for them.  They went on sale shortly after I purchased them (Kapex and accessories, anyone?)  Ah, rewarded again for my loyalty!

This "loss leader" tool looks like a great deal, especially with the $50 voucher.  But what would I buy with that voucher?  I've been a long-term customer, and my shop is now a metric shop.  U.S. Festools are now Imperial.  If I bought something, I'd most likely have to pay a "scale conversion tax".  "Rewarded" again.

No thanks.  I've been Festool's sucker for long enough.

 

[live4ever]

I'm looking forward to using the vouchers to replace my old metric-scale tools with the new Imperial versions!

It's tongue-in cheek guys...Kodi is just like me, he ditched all those outdated/old fashioned metric tools and replaced them with modern imperial versions. Thank God, someone's finally seen the light, and it's so much easier using fractions than decimals, now where was I...hmm, 3/32" equals .093" which equals how many millimeters again?

Finally, someone understands me!  Are you married?  :-* [tongue]

I haven't purchased a single ONE of these.  I considered buying ONE, but I already HAVE one.  I don't NEED one.  The one I do have, I haven't used for years.  I use the 150 series, and I have a stock of 150 paper.  I really don't want to stock 2 paper sizes.

This promotion really peeves me.  I've been a Festool customer for many years, and I've bought many tools.  Traditionally, Festool has had a very strict "no discount" policy.  Back when I was buying, Festool sales were as rare as hen's teeth.  I remember when Festool banned sales on eBay because Microsoft was offering a promotion through Bing and eBay.  Festool banned sales on eBay because an unaffiliated 3rd party was giving a promotional rebate.  Unbelievable adherence to the "no discount" policy.

Then Festool started offering periodic sales.  You couldn't plan on them, but once every blue moon some tool category would go on sale for 10% off.  People on this blog would go into a frenzy, myself included.  I have many tools that I bought during these "sale" periods, that I didn't really "need" but I bought because they were "on sale".  Those tools now sit unused.  They were a great deal now, weren't they? (Yes, for Festool).

Then there were the tools that I bought based on "need", and I paid full price for them.  They went on sale shortly after I purchased them (Kapex and accessories, anyone?)  Ah, rewarded again for my loyalty!

This "loss leader" tool looks like a great deal, especially with the $50 voucher.  But what would I buy with that voucher?  I've been a long-term customer, and my shop is now a metric shop.  U.S. Festools are now Imperial.  If I bought something, I'd most likely have to pay a "scale conversion tax".  "Rewarded" again.

No thanks.  I've been Festool's sucker for long enough.

  [eek]:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* [eek]

 

[weekendwarrior]

[...]
This "loss leader" tool looks like a great deal, especially with the $50 voucher.  But what would I buy with that voucher?  I've been a long-term customer, and my shop is now a metric shop.  U.S. Festools are now Imperial.  If I bought something, I'd most likely have to pay a "scale conversion tax".  "Rewarded" again.

No thanks.  I've been Festool's sucker for long enough.

Are all US-based Festools now imperial only?  Or can the metric versions also be purchased?  Up until this point I thought that there would be two options.

 

[Cheese]

Are all US-based Festools now imperial only?  Or can the metric versions also be purchased?  Up until this point I thought that there would be two options.

It depends upon which tool you're asking about [eek] [eek] it's the old shotgun approach. Some are & some aren't. At this point the routers are available in both flavors as are the old TS track saws, but that will only be the case until the supply of US metric tools dries up. The new HKC (and I assume the HK) are imperial only. Need a Domino? That will be metric only...and the beat goes on.

 

[leakyroof]

I'm looking forward to using the vouchers to replace my old metric-scale tools with the new Imperial versions!

It's tongue-in cheek guys...Kodi is just like me, he ditched all those outdated/old fashioned metric tools and replaced them with modern imperial versions. Thank God, someone's finally seen the light, and it's so much easier using fractions than decimals, now where was I...hmm, 3/32" equals .093" which equals how many millimeters again?

Finally, someone understands me!  Are you married?  :-* [tongue]

I haven't purchased a single ONE of these.  I considered buying ONE, but I already HAVE one.  I don't NEED one.  The one I do have, I haven't used for years.  I use the 150 series, and I have a stock of 150 paper.  I really don't want to stock 2 paper sizes.

This promotion really peeves me. 

No thanks.  I've been Festool's sucker for long enough.

. I had forgotten about the whole Bing thing. Man, you DO have some history with Festool.. [embarassed]
The different sand paper stocking is easier to get over once you use a sander regularly. If it gathers dust and didn't share with some other type like an LS130 and a RTS 400 kind of thing, one could get depressed about buying all those styles of abrasives...

 

[Kodi Crescent]

[...]
This "loss leader" tool looks like a great deal, especially with the $50 voucher.  But what would I buy with that voucher?  I've been a long-term customer, and my shop is now a metric shop.  U.S. Festools are now Imperial.  If I bought something, I'd most likely have to pay a "scale conversion tax".  "Rewarded" again.

No thanks.  I've been Festool's sucker for long enough.

Are all US-based Festools now imperial only?  Or can the metric versions also be purchased?  Up until this point I thought that there would be two options.

From what I've read, things like TS saws and such now come with Imperial scales.  You can have them "converted" for $80.  So if my old TS 55 breaks down, I can buy a NEW one, and then pay $80 to have it be converted back to metric to match what I had before.

Since Festool is reading this, please just convert them "complimentary" to support "loyal" customers.  Better yet, allow the dealer to order a metric version straight from Festool.  (Perhaps the dealers will allow an Imperial loaner if it is time sensitive order.) A low inventory could be kept at Festool to reduce the stocking and inventory costs.

Better yet, you could take a very small batch of Imperial tools, convert them to metric scales, and hold them in inventory.  Then as those metric tools are "pulled" via dealer order, you convert another Imperial one to metric to keep your small pool.  Perhaps they are already doing this.  Perhaps the conversions can be scheduled as part of a "labor balancing" effort to balance demand variability in repair volumes.

And as even another option, when a customer buys a tool and requests a conversion, look them up in your registration system.  If they are "loyal" or "historic" customers, convert it complimentary.  Perhaps apply the fee to "new" customers who desire metric scales.

If my TS 55 were to give up the ghost, I don't know what I'd do.  Perhaps I'd try my old (yet brand new) TS 75?  Maybe I'd pay the "metric tax" and have a new 55 converted?  Perhaps I'd really cut my nose off to spite my face and move to Mafell.  (Then when people come into my garage they won't recognize all that 'valuable' Festool stuff, as very few in the U.S. know about Mafell.)

I'm glad this promotion allowed me to "unload" this feedback! [big grin]

 

[antss]

Perhaps the bosses would care to explain why it costs $80 for some stickers printed in metric to be swapped .  Ones that are already in the production and inventory pipeline to begin with. 5-10$ should easily cover the costs with shipping and a markup for all on a item like that.

Buying ten giveaway sanders isn't hard to explain , because everyday strategy such as this just promotes this kind of behavior.

And those "new" customers are going to be paying close to $200 for those special pro5s because the resellers are going to be selling them close to the new price anyway and will now have to factor in shipping as well. 

"Limit , one per customer" is standard boilerplate for any super duper promo. Festool gets a pass since this really isn't their area of expertise and have next zero experience  doing this.

My two cents is if you want increase you market you should lower your prices without appearing to lower your price. When Festo first arrived in the U.S. their offerings were very competitively priced with the competition. With their current market status it'd still be easy to charge more than the competition , but some of the prices are ridiculous compared to other makes. And please don't tell me the quality is that much better. Sure it's better, but not at the  same rate as the pricing multiples. 

And I'm not trying to start another cost flame war. I own a lot of this kit and have for decades.

 

[Michael Kellough]

"Perhaps the bosses would care to explain why it costs $80 for some stickers printed in metric to be swapped ."

I think the only tool that costs $80 to convert back to metric is the circular saw. The reason is, the scale is printed on or in the plastic housing and swapping it requires disassembly of the saw.

Someone can/will print out a metric sticker at some point to apply over the Imperial scale.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Perhaps the bosses would care to explain why it costs $80 for some stickers printed in metric to be swapped .  Ones that are already in the production and inventory pipeline to begin with. 5-10$ should easily cover the costs with shipping and a markup for all on a item like that.

Buying ten giveaway sanders isn't hard to explain , because everyday strategy such as this just promotes this kind of behavior.

And those "new" customers are going to be paying close to $200 for those special pro5s because the resellers are going to be selling them close to the new price anyway and will now have to factor in shipping as well. 

"Limit , one per customer" is standard boilerplate for any super duper promo. Festool gets a pass since this really isn't their area of expertise and have next zero experience  doing this.

My two cents is if you want increase you market you should lower your prices without appearing to lower your price. When Festo first arrived in the U.S. their offerings were very competitively priced with the competition. With their current market status it'd still be easy to charge more than the competition , but some of the prices are ridiculous compared to other makes. And please don't tell me the quality is that much better. Sure it's better, but not at the  same rate as the pricing multiples. 

And I'm not trying to start another cost flame war. I own a lot of this kit and have for decades.

I once told an American expat in Germany about the Festool no sales policy.  He said that's a common practice in Germany and amongst German retailers.  They are VERY proud of what they produce and sell, and either want full retail from the customer, or no sale.  It doesn't bother them.

My guess is that they don't quite understand marketing in America and the differences in purchasing behavior between American and German societies.  Perhaps there is a skilled American marketing manager here in the USA that tries to explain this to them.  But as the company is headquartered out of Germany, I assume German's are heading it, and may not fully understand or embrace the advice their American marketing folks are providing.

As far as the relationship between quality and price, perhaps that relationship is the same as it was in the past.  I'm perceiving that the relationship is weakening as the push into the American market gets stronger.  American's do focus on price, which has its own effects.

I guess I can't have it both ways.  :'(

 

[Stephen B]

[size=13pt][member=8843]Kodi Crescent[/member] and [member=727]antss[/member]

Agree re Festools integral pricing philosophy world wide. The UK is now the only market with discounting. We lost it - see 'One for the Aussies'.

As to the US market; sometime after the election you possibly might expect Festool prices to rise even more as I understand that both your major Parties/Candidates have stated they will remove trade agreements with Europe in an attempt to protect/promote US based industries and manufacturers. If this happens, would Festool consider US based manufacturing? Yes, I know, all this is conjecture!

 

[antss]

Oh, I'm not trying to steer the conversation down the rabbit hole of "discounting" at the retail level.  In fact, I rather respect them for not running a sale every month like Sears and Macy's.

I'm talking about everyday competitive pricing.  When Festo first landed here I remember their routers being goofy looking with that single handle and that they cost about what a Bosch did - which wasn't exactly cheap. It wasn't that much xtra money to go with Festo(ol). 

Today, Festool's OF1400 is 40% more money than Bosch's mrp23 and that's MSRP and AFTER deducting out $85 for Festool's SYS 4 which is arguably "value added" to the1400.  This also assumes Bosch isn't shipping theirs in a Sortimo box - which they might. I don't know.  Both have similar specs, available accessories including dust collection options and 32mm drilling systems.  Bosch has even managed to have BOTH metric and SAE graduations on their depth scale at no additional charge.  Imagine that ? [embarassed]

So, is there anyone out there that wants to try to convince me that Festool is using 40% -70% better bearings, wiring, switches, plastic, aluminum and steel than Bosch ?  FWIW - I own both Festool and Bosch routers, though not the mrp23.

Which, brings me round to the pricing/market share conundrum.  While some may find Festool's prestige, quality(real or perceived), system approach, and feature set worth a 50% + premium , the majority of tool buyers do not.  " Everyone is not my customer" mentality I understand.  However, I think the pool of people willing to spend the premium for those reasons is already saturated.  I've seen this go from just unknown expensive tooling available only for those "in the know" from "a guy" - to cool kid status symbol available at 1000's of retail locations or delivered to your doorstep in a fairly short time span. 

If Festool wants to grow the U.S. market now , they're going to have to make the value proposition more attainable to the next tier of construction workers and hobbyist that may stretch financially for a higher quality or prestigious tools BUT simply cannot afford close to double the cost of a similar item. You're just not going to be able to persuade that group to buy in with clever marketing strategies. You'll have to adjust your prices lower.  Unlike Germany and Europe as whole, tradesmen ( a dying breed itself - and for another discussion)  here are conditioned to buy the cheapest tool to get the job done now.  A habit not conducive to growing market share for the most expensive item on the shelf.

I can lay out a strategy for growth that doesn't involve simply slashing prices and pissing off the current loyal base. But, you should already have that guy or gal in upper management. 

Well, maybe not considering the sander strategy.  Just send me a coupon or frequent flyer number for a $199 Conturo or Vac-SYS and I'll lay it out for you.  [tongue] [tongue] [tongue] [tongue] [tongue]

 

[KescoNY]

I have mixed feelings regarding limit 1 per customer.  I look at some guys including myself that believe in these tools tremendously investing well over $60k and using them on daily bases. I already have (5) ets125 sanders and they are being used constantly. We purchase these high priced items at full retail prices all the time. I get that we overspend because of quality is superior to anything else and it is part of a whole system which makes the quality of our work much better end efficient.
If a deal comes thru likes this, Im going to purchase enough to replace my tired units and even have some replacements for the future.
What would tick me off is if i knew someone was purchasing a bulk of these items only to resell them defeating the intended purpose of the promotion
I totally understand the intended purpose of this promotion was to bring new customers to festool but this was a well thought out promotion by festool. Most will be using the vouchers to purchase high ticket items along with consumables for years to come not to mention all the DE equipment  No different then buying a printer for $19.99 only to spend $45 for cartridges for the next few years.

 

[antss]

but this was a well thought out promotion by festool............................ [unsure]

Brainpower may have been expended on it, but like betting the ponies or football, it's extremely difficult to accurately predict the outcome.

I seriously doubt MOST of the vouchers will be used.  The faithful  won't need to purchase much, and the guys that bought 7 and 10 sanders aren't going to by 17 new Festools within an year.  Would you buy 5 new Festool if you acquired or replaced your sander lineup @ $99ea ? Doubt you'll see a huge run on 125mm sandpaper either.  Some yes, but not the truckloads one might expect based on the number of sander sales this week.

 

[KescoNY]

im guilty....I bought 7.  5 of those 7 will be put to use immediately and i will take my older ets125s, put them on the shelf and service them to be spares as i have time.  I may be a bad example for this as I'm a production company using 8 MFTs, 5 track saws and grabbed 2 HKCs when they came out just to name a few examples.  No, I am not showing off yet I am very proud.  I use all these tools to make a living and provide for my family.
My monthly festool purchase is quite high considering the replacement tools, sandpaper, blades, bags, etc etc so I'm sure i will use up all my vouchers

 

[Svar]

If anything this thread indicates that people who know how to run a successful tool company vastly outnumber successful tool companies.

 

[antss]

Curious what 5 things you think you'll buy/need in the next twelve months ?

And clearly you weren't the intended target of the promotion. You're already hooked and don't need a free sample of crack to create a customer.

All the same, I'm sure you'll agree it's nice to offer this as thank you to all the loyal FOGgers , but that wasn't the stated intention. Furthermore , I question the wisdom of the Special Edition Systainer if the new guy was the intended target.  Why stigmatize him right off the bat with an oddball box spotted a mile away ?

The faithful might see it as a badge of honor to have a different box in the collection, like an Orange Fein SYS, or a FOG SYS, or a WOW first aid kit, but labeling the new guy as a new guy prob. wasn't the best move.

 

[antss]

If anything this thread indicates that people who know how to run a successful tool company vastly outnumber successful tool companies.

Of course it does.  They're out there running other successful companies. 

Not everyone likes tools. 

 

[KescoNY]

Curious what 5 things you think you'll buy/need in the next twelve months ?

And clearly you weren't the intended target of the promotion. You're already hooked and don't need a free sample of crack to create a customer.

All the same, I'm sure you'll agree it's nice to offer this as thank you to all the loyal FOGgers , but that wasn't the stated intention. Furthermore , I question the wisdom of the Special Edition Systainer if the new guy was the intended target.  Why stigmatize him right off the bat with an oddball box spotted a mile away ?

The faithful might see it as a badge of honor to have a different box in the collection, like an Orange Fein SYS, or a FOG SYS, or a WOW first aid kit, but labeling the new guy as a new guy prob. wasn't the best move.

I have several more items i would like to add. For example every time i add a vehicle or a station, i would like them to be fully equipped with everyday items such as Ct36ac,MFT, TSC55,sanders etc so i don't think i would have any issues using the vouchers.

I have to disagree with some and this was great marketing by festool  Look at how much buzz it created on the FOG alone not to mention introducing current festool users that haven't invested in a sander yet to purchase one only to get a taste of it so they can go for the Rotex etc.

Then again what do i know, it can only be my false perception  ;D

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

Curious what 5 things you think you'll buy/need in the next twelve months ?

And clearly you weren't the intended target of the promotion. You're already hooked and don't need a free sample of crack to create a customer.

All the same, I'm sure you'll agree it's nice to offer this as thank you to all the loyal FOGgers , but that wasn't the stated intention. Furthermore , I question the wisdom of the Special Edition Systainer if the new guy was the intended target.  Why stigmatize him right off the bat with an oddball box spotted a mile away ?

The faithful might see it as a badge of honor to have a different box in the collection, like an Orange Fein SYS, or a FOG SYS, or a WOW first aid kit, but labeling the new guy as a new guy prob. wasn't the best move.

I have several more items i would like to add. For example every time i add a vehicle or a station, i would like them to be fully equipped with everyday items such as Ct36ac,MFT, TSC55,sanders etc so i don't think i would have any issues using the vouchers.

I have to disagree with some and this was great marketing by festool  Look at how much buzz it created on the FOG alone not to mention introducing current festool users that haven't invested in a sander yet to purchase one only to get a taste of it so they can go for the Rotex etc.

Then again what do i know, it can only be my false perception  ;D

You did nothing wrong.  You took advantage of a great deal and it sounds like the sanders are going to get used.  I think the issue with the whole thing is people buying multiple sanders to sell on ebay for profit.  The point of this promotion was to introduce people to the Festool system.  With no rules in place multiple sanders can be bought by anyone.