A little help with sander choice please

[SafetyThird]

Yet another sander question I'm afraid. I currently have a small black and decker mouse sander which is great for small detail work, a Bosch PSS 230 orbital sander and a little Stayer L130 I was given which, I think, is an orbital sander. Recently my makita 5" random orbit sander died.

I do mostly small woodwork projects with some occasional larger cabinets as needed. I will shortly be building a wall full of cupboards and shelves using plywood.

However, this weekend I'm laying oak tongue and groove flooring in 3 rooms of my house. They're nicely finished boards but, as always, it's not a perfect finish once they're all down, there's slight irregularities between them.

So, I need to sand the boards, not too aggressively as they're already well finished but to take out the inconsistencies between them and then wax them. I won't do many more projects like this, just one more room of floor boards later in the year so I don't need a massive sander dedicated to this type of project but something that will do this as well as more normal everyday woodworker sanding and finishing.

I'm looking at the ETS 150 as being reasonably light and easy to use. The RO150 I thought might be overkill and more than I need for most things and is twice the cost. Then there's the ETS EC 150 which is the same cost as the RO 150 but I'm not sure what the real differences are. It does get a bit confusing.

Then I wonder if I need the 150 vs the 125 and although I'm sure the 150 would be a better size for the floor, would it be too big for regular woodworking? I have a fair stock of norton 5" sanding sheets from the Makita ROS which might fit the ETS 125 or RO125 although not with such good dust collection.

Could anyone offer some advice, and please don't say buy two I really can't afford that at this point though if I were to buy an ETS for example, it would make sense to choose a size that matched a similar RO sander in case I want to add one in the future.

 

[ear3]

The ETS vs. ETS-EC: the latter is the updated version, adding a brushless motor, and a rapid pad break (a feature that may sound like a luxury, but you really come to appreciate it when you have to change grits a lot), and few other features having to do with the dust port and motor control.  The form factor is also somewhat different -- lower to the work and with a paddle switch.  I much prefer the EC model to the normal ETS.

As for the ETS-EC 150/5 vs. the Rotex: the reason to get the Rotex over the ETS-EC is if you have a fair amount of truly aggressive sanding to do.  The geared mode on the RO is a real beast, and is great for stripping finishes or starting from a very rough piece of lumber.  The RO also functions as a great polisher.

The ETS-EC 150/5 is still pretty aggressive though, in fact, more aggressive than the RO150 when the latter is just in random orbit mode.  My ETS-EC 150/5 is my preferred and most used sander.

I would also say go for the 150 over the 125, regardless of whether you go for the EC or regular ETS.  The sander is very well-balanced and so can perform well even on narrow surfaces.  And since you will be working with sheets goods, you will thank yourself for the 50% more pad surface that 1" gives you.  Down the road if you end up picking up another sander, like the 150/3 (which is useful when doing veneered sheets and similar delicate work), or the R0150, you won't have to invest in a whole new stock of abrasives. 

 

[leakyroof]

Problem #1 that I'm seeing is if your flooring is prefinished, and not laying level or even , you would have to get to bare wood to level it all out. Then finish it again. Am I correct on the amount of uneven wood or is it not that bad?  [blink]
If you just want to degloss the finish and add more to level the clear film, then the EC150/3 sounds like it would work for you but not be quick like a rented buffer or flooring screen sander would be... However, once done with the flooring, you'd still have a great sander for all your woodworking if you bought that EC.
Maybe pictures would help on the Flooring

 

[SafetyThird]

Misunderstanding, when I said finished I didn't mean that it had a surface finish, just that it was well sanded. The irregularities are half a mm or so here and there, just enough that it's not always a smooth transition between every board, I'll take a photo tomorrow when the first room is finished. I just want to level down occasional slight edges. Also, i'll need to fill the occasional knot hole and so sand over filler after that. I'd be sanding the entire surface but not aggressively. Once that's done, I'll treat with a liquid wax and then polish it off.

 

[ear3]

Got it -- 1/2mm is still be in the range of what the ETS-EC 150/5 can do efficiently, though the RO150 would certainly make quicker work of it operating in geared mode. 

 

[SafetyThird]

After reading here and around the forum, I think ETS rather than RO150, I think the RO will be bigger than I need physically and more awkward to use as I tend to sand one handed.

I think 6" rather than 5 now, given veneered sheet goods and flooring.

I'm leaning towards the 150/3 rather than 150/5 for the finer finishing that i'm more likely to do but also wondering if that would be too fine. I've a half sheet orbital sander for heavy work but expect that the festool sander would probably replace that too with a coarser grit.

Then its ETS or ETS EC. EC is 50% more money but sounds like a better, more comfortable sander.

 

[leakyroof]

After reading here and around the forum, I think ETS rather than RO150, I think the RO will be bigger than I need physically and more awkward to use as I tend to sand one handed.

I think 6" rather than 5 now, given veneered sheet goods and flooring.

I'm leaning towards the 150/3 rather than 150/5 for the finer finishing that i'm more likely to do but also wondering if that would be too fine. I've a half sheet orbital sander for heavy work but expect that the festool sander would probably replace that too with a coarser grit.

Then its ETS or ETS EC. EC is 50% more money but sounds like a better, more comfortable sander.

. If possible, bring something to sand at your Festool dealer if you have a local store/dealer. Try out both versions. The /5 is capable of fine sanding, esp with finer grits and good technique but will also remove material faster than the /3.

 

[Holmz]

The last oak floor I did (a long time ago) I used a belt sander on with a frame (old hitachi I think). It took all day.

Based upon that the ETS/EC would be the the minimum, or the RAS to start( but I do not like tools that can wave the floor, so iwould still be looking at a belt sander).

I suppose if the UK has the 30 day return, or 15 day, then you could try out the belt sander, the Ras and the ETS/EC, and even the Rotex and send back the 3 you did not like. And do a post of the good and the bad, like and dislike.

 

[SafetyThird]

My nearest festool dealer is 150 miles away, I'm out in the countryside here. I think a belt sander is going to be too course for what I need. Think I've now decided on the EC version, so will try and post some floor pictures later and get further advice on the /3 or /5 model. Thanks for all the help so far.

 

[drax]

I've finished many floors with the ets ec 150/3. Its the one sander you need for the work your describing as it only needs to level your flooring and it will be perfect for the cabinetry etc. Dust extraction, low vibration and comfort are all excellent on this sander and the one festool power tool I think excels, a great all rounder if you can only afford one. And I mean the sander. Its expensive. Worth it? For me yes.
Scott

 

[Holmz]

They do make 150 grit and higher grit belts, but an ETS/EC /5 is a good choice.

Redoing a stained (damaged floor) the belt with a frame is probably better, or a floor sander.

For the occasional boards getting the high spots out the ETS/EC should good. It is what would choose anyhow

 

[Peter_C]

Hmmm...I don't do flooring for a living, but laid down a quality hickory 2.5" flooring in my own house last year. I had very very little waste due to poor poor quality control, meaning the manufacturer I bought from did a nice job. Still I wanted a dead flat floor and zero gaps. I borrowed (My neighbor owns a Just Ask Rental True Value store) a semi professional drum sander and edger. I own an RO150 and it wouldn't even work for edging (Hickory and oak are hard woods). The drum sander brought the wood flat in a reasonable amount of time and the edger did all the edge work. I filled all the top nail holes at the beginning and ending rows, along with any irregularities. The final sanding is done with 18-20" buffer and a screen. Then after each coat you will need to use a pad to level and rough up the surface for the next coat.

FWIW I used Bona Traffic HD satin and am very happy with the results. There is another brand people like too.

Edit: This first video is the basic process, with the second being more in depth. I highly recommend you watch a bunch of videos on "hardwood floor finishing".

 

[SafetyThird]

Thanks for that Peter, very helpful. The finish I'll be putting on is a hard wax, looks like thin varnish and you paint it on then use a cloth to wipe off any excess and buff to finish. 2 coats are needed. I'll look through the finishing videos this evening.

 

[SafetyThird]

First room done.

These are the sorts of edges I need to level, they're about half a mm and there's a few of them scattered around.

This is the worst board in the room, it's about 1mm proud at one end and 1mm down at the other

Then there are knot holes to be filled with epoxy and the odd slight gap between boards which will be filled with light oak colour filler.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the results and had a carpenter friend showing me how to do it properly, learned some useful little tricks. The boards are screwed into 1x2 battens which are screwed into the concrete subfloor on 400mm spacing, with 25mm PUR insulation board in the gaps between the battens. Given that the concrete isn't insulated, it's going to make a big difference to the temperature of the rooms in the cottage.

 

[Peter_C]

In order to keep the floor flat you are going to need a drum sander. There is no way a small handheld sander will work. The drums are pretty wide and remove material fast. Faster means flatter...as long as you keep moving.

Is there some kind of vapor barrier between the concrete?

That sounds like a LOT of screwing. I am amazed you got a room done that fast.

I like the knots in the wood Has excellent character. It is gonna be beautiful when you are done.

 

[SafetyThird]

Would be interested to know what grits you'd recommend. Was planning to use 120 but not sure if going to 80 would be needed.

Buying papers for these sanders isn't cheap is it, seem to be available only in 50 sheet packs at nearly £40 a pack.

 

[SafetyThird]

ah, just found a link elsewhere on this forum for a different brand of papers that are much cheaper
http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/search?searchtext=festool

 

[Peter_C]

Would be interested to know what grits you'd recommend. Was planning to use 120 but not sure if going to 80 would be needed.

I honestly think you are under estimating how much material you are going to need to remove. Industrial rental equipment is going to be your best bet. Also for the cost of rental equipment it might be worth it to see what a professional would charge. They will have it done in half the time it will take you, and most likely with a better end result. I am a huge purveyor of DIY and don't want to discourage you, just recommending you look at all options.

Edit: Watch many of their videos for more information on hardwood floor finishing.

 

[Ross 71]

Tidy job. It might be worth getting a price from a professional floor sander-it might cost a lot less than you think, or it might cost a packet and justify all sorts of new toys.

Is that Blue Mendip stone? Whereabouts are you,

Ross

 

[SafetyThird]

Going to phone a few companies this morning and get quotes for having someone sand the rooms. Will get back later with results.

Ross, I'm in north Devon. The fireplace is old field stone, as are the walls of the house. The slab under the fire is just sandstone, nothing fancy.