chrisrosenb
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The Monday before Christmas
A Mouse got thirsty.
- Thread starter chrisrosenb
- Start date
Steve,
Sulfur will change the pH of the water towards the acidic side and copper does not like acid. The homes in my area that are served by wells have issues with pin hole leaks developing in the copper pipes - I have only had two since 1993, but more are on the way. I have an emergency kit of PEX pipe and fittings on hand.
A sad but true story not told as eloquently as Tinker's [thumbs up]:
The construction company I started working for back in 1983 was building a townhouse project in an up and coming area. The homes were built on a concrete slab and they used heat pumps. The architect had designed them so that the refrigerant lines from the outdoor compressors to the inside air handling unit were installed below the slab. Because the locality had experienced problems with the use of plastic pipe for the main water lines in the past, they mandated the use of copper piping going from the water meter to the shut off valve inside the homes which was conveniently located in a closet along with the water heater in the center of the homes.
Unfortunately for the owners, the area where their homes were built was in an area that once was known for it's coal. High sulfur coal. Additionally, the ground below this area had extensive layers of shale at a shallow depth which minimized the penetration of surface water - unless the layers were disturbed. I guess that digging for the foundation and the utilities disturbed some of those layers. You can see where this is headed.
About 2 years after one part of the project was built a homeowner called about an air conditioning issue. It turned out to be that the rainwater (naturally acidic) had become even more acidic as it filtered its way down to the disturbed areas where the compressor lines were and then got trapped there. The pipes were then given a bath in acidic water - continually. Once a pin hole developed, refrigerant and oil leaked out and water leaked in. The result was a trashed compressor. New refrigerant lines had to be installed by going overhead versus under the slab.
Then this happened to the neighbor of the first, then his neighbor, then... I think that about 8 homes were effected by that while I was around. All in that block of buildings. Then came the call about the huge water bill. Yep. Lightning does strike twice, or 16 times. These leaks in the copper pipes always happened out of sight under the concrete slab about four feet to 6 feet in from the outside wall. You would not know it was happened unless a large wet spot appeared in the yard or a large water bill arrived. Unfortunately the water bills were only sent out every two months.
After about the third one of these happened, the locality allowed us to start using plastic pipe for the main water lines. The owners affected had to pay to have new pipe installed and that installation included cutting the concrete slab to the central location of the shut off valve.
I don't know what has transpired in that neighborhood within the last twenty years, but I would venture a guess that it isn't good.
Peter
Sulfur will change the pH of the water towards the acidic side and copper does not like acid. The homes in my area that are served by wells have issues with pin hole leaks developing in the copper pipes - I have only had two since 1993, but more are on the way. I have an emergency kit of PEX pipe and fittings on hand.
A sad but true story not told as eloquently as Tinker's [thumbs up]:
The construction company I started working for back in 1983 was building a townhouse project in an up and coming area. The homes were built on a concrete slab and they used heat pumps. The architect had designed them so that the refrigerant lines from the outdoor compressors to the inside air handling unit were installed below the slab. Because the locality had experienced problems with the use of plastic pipe for the main water lines in the past, they mandated the use of copper piping going from the water meter to the shut off valve inside the homes which was conveniently located in a closet along with the water heater in the center of the homes.
Unfortunately for the owners, the area where their homes were built was in an area that once was known for it's coal. High sulfur coal. Additionally, the ground below this area had extensive layers of shale at a shallow depth which minimized the penetration of surface water - unless the layers were disturbed. I guess that digging for the foundation and the utilities disturbed some of those layers. You can see where this is headed.
About 2 years after one part of the project was built a homeowner called about an air conditioning issue. It turned out to be that the rainwater (naturally acidic) had become even more acidic as it filtered its way down to the disturbed areas where the compressor lines were and then got trapped there. The pipes were then given a bath in acidic water - continually. Once a pin hole developed, refrigerant and oil leaked out and water leaked in. The result was a trashed compressor. New refrigerant lines had to be installed by going overhead versus under the slab.
Then this happened to the neighbor of the first, then his neighbor, then... I think that about 8 homes were effected by that while I was around. All in that block of buildings. Then came the call about the huge water bill. Yep. Lightning does strike twice, or 16 times. These leaks in the copper pipes always happened out of sight under the concrete slab about four feet to 6 feet in from the outside wall. You would not know it was happened unless a large wet spot appeared in the yard or a large water bill arrived. Unfortunately the water bills were only sent out every two months.
After about the third one of these happened, the locality allowed us to start using plastic pipe for the main water lines. The owners affected had to pay to have new pipe installed and that installation included cutting the concrete slab to the central location of the shut off valve.
I don't know what has transpired in that neighborhood within the last twenty years, but I would venture a guess that it isn't good.
Peter
Found on internet: A study from Ohio University
>>>Water containing hydrogen sulfide usually does not pose a health risk, but does give water a nuisance "rotten egg" smell and taste. Water supplies with as little as 1.0 ppm (part per million) hydrogen sulfide are corrosive, may tarnish copper and silverware, and occasionally release a black material that stains laundry and porcelain.
>>>Water containing hydrogen sulfide usually does not pose a health risk, but does give water a nuisance "rotten egg" smell and taste. Water supplies with as little as 1.0 ppm (part per million) hydrogen sulfide are corrosive, may tarnish copper and silverware, and occasionally release a black material that stains laundry and porcelain.
We used pex when we built our own house. I did lots of research first , it it was one of the best decisions I made (so far!). The wife and I were able to plum both the main house and granny unit with home run lines (dedicated 1/2" hot/cold to each fixture) , about 2000 feet, in about 12 hours. And 1/3 the cost of copper, minus labor !
I just came to a good stopping place in my shop. Stopped for a late morning snack and then it's off to one of my toystores.
While chomping down a quick sandwich, i came across an article in the Danbury News Times.
I really should have picked up on this long before now, as i like to consider myself as being somewhat observant about nature and its effect on how i have to take care of properties.
Here in the North East, we had a bumper crop of acorns in 2010. Part of my biz operation is fall cleanups. Last fall, i had piles and piles of acorns on any property with resident oak trees. I just did not have time to unravel the piles in the fall and spent many hours removing piles of empty acorn husks in the spring of 2011.
This past summer, for whatever reason, there were practically NO ACORNS. With last years abundance of acorns, mice got fat and horny resulting in an abundance in 2011 of mice (and other rodents such as squirrels, chipmunks, rats and what have you) that are not being too well fed with their favorite fare. Result: They have moved to where the food is >>> in our houses.
The white footed deer mouse is the major host of the tiny deer tick, The deer are taking the blame for this and so extra hunters are tramping the woods to hunt down the partly innocent deer. Of course the reason given is to cut down the incidence of Lyme disease. the real reason s to put more venison (and I am one who loves wild venison) on the table. Who wants to go out hunting White Footed deer mice. Ain't no trophy there and I'm pretty sure they are not much for eatin'. But be aware, the deer mouse IS THE MAJOR HOST TO THE DEER TICK. The deer tick is the spreader of Lyme disease.
My warning here is to be aware if you seem to have mice in the house. They could be hosting a few deer ticks. In the spring, and maybe sooner if your house has a large mouse population and it is of, course, warm in side, those ticks will be ready to latch on to any warm blooded critter moving close by. Some of those warm blodded critters are very likely going to be the two legged type who walk upright and call you "MOM" or "DAD". Look up symptoms for Lyme and the several other tick bourne diseases that are floating around. If anybody is interested, I could list the symptoms I get with Lyme. The problem is, different folk show different symptoms.
I don't have time right now, but sometime over the weekend, I could get a little further into this if anybody is interested.
Tinker
While chomping down a quick sandwich, i came across an article in the Danbury News Times.
I really should have picked up on this long before now, as i like to consider myself as being somewhat observant about nature and its effect on how i have to take care of properties.
Here in the North East, we had a bumper crop of acorns in 2010. Part of my biz operation is fall cleanups. Last fall, i had piles and piles of acorns on any property with resident oak trees. I just did not have time to unravel the piles in the fall and spent many hours removing piles of empty acorn husks in the spring of 2011.
This past summer, for whatever reason, there were practically NO ACORNS. With last years abundance of acorns, mice got fat and horny resulting in an abundance in 2011 of mice (and other rodents such as squirrels, chipmunks, rats and what have you) that are not being too well fed with their favorite fare. Result: They have moved to where the food is >>> in our houses.
The white footed deer mouse is the major host of the tiny deer tick, The deer are taking the blame for this and so extra hunters are tramping the woods to hunt down the partly innocent deer. Of course the reason given is to cut down the incidence of Lyme disease. the real reason s to put more venison (and I am one who loves wild venison) on the table. Who wants to go out hunting White Footed deer mice. Ain't no trophy there and I'm pretty sure they are not much for eatin'. But be aware, the deer mouse IS THE MAJOR HOST TO THE DEER TICK. The deer tick is the spreader of Lyme disease.
My warning here is to be aware if you seem to have mice in the house. They could be hosting a few deer ticks. In the spring, and maybe sooner if your house has a large mouse population and it is of, course, warm in side, those ticks will be ready to latch on to any warm blooded critter moving close by. Some of those warm blodded critters are very likely going to be the two legged type who walk upright and call you "MOM" or "DAD". Look up symptoms for Lyme and the several other tick bourne diseases that are floating around. If anybody is interested, I could list the symptoms I get with Lyme. The problem is, different folk show different symptoms.
I don't have time right now, but sometime over the weekend, I could get a little further into this if anybody is interested.
Tinker
atomicmike
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Chris Rosenberger said:
I'm another PEX convert. When I bought my house a few years ago, it was filled with a rather comical blend of plumbing materials, 1/2" copper, PVC (with Sharkbite fittings), a couple of spots with galvanized steel, and some of the original drawn brass pipe and fittings, too. Needless to say, running any more than one fixture at a time reduced flow to a trickle. After a few days of prep, I replaced all of the mismatched plumbing with PEX in a home-run system. It completely transformed water use in the house; I can now take a shower with both the dishwasher and washing machine running, and not notice a huge drop in pressure. And the home-run arrangement really came in handy when I remodeled the bathroom... shut off the valves on those supply lines and it's ready to go.
As for how it stands up to mice, I hope to never find out.
- Mike
Deansocial
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Roger Savatteri said:
but the expense plays a part
£5.50 per M in the uk for 22mm
GreenGA
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- 877
In a related matter...
I was chatting with someone this afternoon and he related he and his buddy are refurbing an entire single story bungalow, gutting it to the walls he said.
He remarked that he was pulling down the sheet rock and found lotsa mouse condos, but no mice. He and his buddy looked all over and found nothing.
A couple of days later, they were pulling down the sheetrock from the ceilings and discovered the answer. Black snakes. 5, or was it 7, of them. Fat dumb and happy. [smile] That is until they ripped the floor out from under them, figuratively and litterally , speaking. [eek]
I was chatting with someone this afternoon and he related he and his buddy are refurbing an entire single story bungalow, gutting it to the walls he said.
He remarked that he was pulling down the sheet rock and found lotsa mouse condos, but no mice. He and his buddy looked all over and found nothing.
A couple of days later, they were pulling down the sheetrock from the ceilings and discovered the answer. Black snakes. 5, or was it 7, of them. Fat dumb and happy. [smile] That is until they ripped the floor out from under them, figuratively and litterally , speaking. [eek]
GreenGA
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That's kinda what he said. [blink]
For me, the mice are a PITA and the snakes, as long as they are not poisonous, bother me not. Nor JR for that matter. They go their way, we go ours.
Again, on a related note...
Back in the 80's I and a friend of mine who was an interior decorator and designer, were checking out a house in Cape May, New Jersey. One of those grand, and I mean grand, seashore colonials. (Ken Nagrod knows what I am talking about).
Anyways...
We were up in the attic, checking things out. It was a shambles. Junk was everywhere. That attic looked like it had gone untouched since just after the house was originally built; probably more than 100 years prior. An overturned tub was in our way. I reached over, grabber the lip and tossed/lifted it out of our path. Whoa! [eek] Underneath were a family of Timber Rattlers. They slithered every which way but loose.
Boy was that a shock. I didn't jump or anything like that, but I did back away slowly... Veddy, veddy slowly...
For me, the mice are a PITA and the snakes, as long as they are not poisonous, bother me not. Nor JR for that matter. They go their way, we go ours.
Again, on a related note...
Back in the 80's I and a friend of mine who was an interior decorator and designer, were checking out a house in Cape May, New Jersey. One of those grand, and I mean grand, seashore colonials. (Ken Nagrod knows what I am talking about).
Anyways...
We were up in the attic, checking things out. It was a shambles. Junk was everywhere. That attic looked like it had gone untouched since just after the house was originally built; probably more than 100 years prior. An overturned tub was in our way. I reached over, grabber the lip and tossed/lifted it out of our path. Whoa! [eek] Underneath were a family of Timber Rattlers. They slithered every which way but loose.
Boy was that a shock. I didn't jump or anything like that, but I did back away slowly... Veddy, veddy slowly...
I will take the mice every time. Not a fan of things that can bite and leave you for dead.
And since PEX was on the agenda, I use the Wirsbo/Uponor expansion type and love it. Sweated my share of CU and the PEX is so much easier it's almost not to be believed.
And since PEX was on the agenda, I use the Wirsbo/Uponor expansion type and love it. Sweated my share of CU and the PEX is so much easier it's almost not to be believed.
Ken Nagrod
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GreenGA said:That's kinda what he said. [blink]
For me, the mice are a PITA and the snakes, as long as they are not poisonous, bother me not. Nor JR for that matter. They go their way, we go ours.
Again, on a related note...
Back in the 80's I and a friend of mine who was an interior decorator and designer, were checking out a house in Cape May, New Jersey. One of those grand, and I mean grand, seashore colonials. (Ken Nagrod knows what I am talking about).
Anyways...
We were up in the attic, checking things out. It was a shambles. Junk was everywhere. That attic looked like it had gone untouched since just after the house was originally built; probably more than 100 years prior. An overturned tub was in our way. I reached over, grabber the lip and tossed/lifted it out of our path. Whoa! [eek] Underneath were a family of Timber Rattlers. They slithered every which way but loose.
Boy was that a shock. I didn't jump or anything like that, but I did back away slowly... Veddy, veddy slowly...
Yeah, those are some sweet old houses! I took the trolley tour with my ex gf to many of them. Any carpenter who's serious about finish work (trim) will love to see the insides of these. Picture taking is prohibited (cough, cough) though.
Every winter from mid autumn to early spring, we have aways heard critters traveling across the attic floor. except for this winter since we installed electronic devises mentioned in an earlier post. One winter, we did not have any animal noises. One day, my wife went up to store business papers and let out a scream. I happened to be home and made a fast trip up the ladder to find out what all the commotion had been about. We almost had a collision as she was evacuating as fast as i was arriving. I guess you could have referred to me as "Butthead". Anyhow, when i finally got her calmed down, i followed her directions (I never argue :
) and investigated. There, about where she had the records cabinet was the biggest blacksnake skin i had ever seen. I tend to agree that the possibility of a resident blacksnake is far more welcome than any of the rodents that can find their way into a house. especially once my wife can come to terms with the same idea. [scratch chin]
Tinker
) and investigated. There, about where she had the records cabinet was the biggest blacksnake skin i had ever seen. I tend to agree that the possibility of a resident blacksnake is far more welcome than any of the rodents that can find their way into a house. especially once my wife can come to terms with the same idea. [scratch chin]Tinker
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