Activate Karma?

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Afternoon,
Well, it's been an interesting experiment so far.

Some striking numbers... For myself, I seem to be hovering right around 50%.

Does it mean anything?  Should it last another day?  What's the use of having almost 5000 people in a room if you don't experiment once in a while -- take some chances?

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Steve Jones]

Bluemaxx,

Hang in there, this actually is a good forum for Festool advice you just have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

(Actually, i suspect Matthew's purpose in experimenting with the rating system is to reduce some of that chaff - because some of the less positive contributors will start to see declining scores and maybe reconsider their posts before adding to the noise). As an example my own score was in the negative last I checked, which means I've offended two people on here - I'm disappointed....

I thought it would be more

 

[Per Swenson]

This is by golly the stoopidest flippin thing yet.

Whatever for. Smacks of juvenile insecurity.

This is just plain wrong on so many levels............ that I am flabbergasted.

I can hardly type coherently.

Crimeny if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Per

 

[jaegerhund]

I don't dig it ------ man all I really want to do is to learn about Festool and woodworking here ----- and maybe discuss a pleasant off-topic scenario every once in a while.  I don't care to rate people or be rated ----

Justin

 

[BlueMaxx]

As an example my own score was in the negative last I checked, which means I've offended two people on here - I'm disappointed....

Well if nothing else, this gave me a great chuckle!
Cheers Steve!

 

[monte]

Very simply,

Let's "De-Activate Karma".

No question mark, just period.

 

[PeterK]

Well Steve - I just had to give you a negative - just to make you happy!! (and you didn't even tick me off to earn it)

I really don't understand the idea of this rating thing. Makes me not want to participate. I think we will loose even more of the valuable contributors.

I have been having real concerns about how this site has changed over the last month or so and this Karma thing just adds to it. I come here to learn as I don't have much to offer but the feeling I get here sure has changed. If I was Festool, I would stop contributing here - and they have.

Pete

 

[Dan Uhlir]

  This is bullcrap. That should be worth a plus 10 right there. Not that I care of course.Maybe we could have a monthly prize, for the most liked woodworker. Dan

 

[Per Swenson]

Dan,

Only if you Friend me on facebook or my space or whatever LOL1!!!

Per

 

[graphex]

I was thinking this morning on the way to the breakfast table that the FOG people seem to be kinda mean too much, and that I find myself wanting to go back less and less. Then I saw the karma thing and realized that it was definitely the best way for the tone of things to improve. Its subtle, but I think effective over the course of a number of months. It doesn't affect specific things from happening - disruptive people can always disrupt, but they will never be someone who has an account with 3,024 posts and a karma total of +553.

I like the feature because it lets me just knock down someone a notch if they piss me off instead of writing a pointless bit of flamebait. On the positive side, the people who are actually well reasoned and treat others like humans tend to get runaway positive scores. I think Per will be one of those people...

I often look at the post totals to get a sense of how long someone has been a member, as a gauge of their position in the community, and having another number with which to gauge someone's tenor is very useful in a forum where we really know so little about all but a few. The reason I think it should be just the karma total instead of the + and - totals separately, is that it is a bit more unobtrusive then, and I think the usefulness of the karma is mostly in the total anyway. We have the post totals with which to gauge the quantity of a members contributions, and the karma tends to help gauge the quality of a member's contributions. I do wish that people could turn off their view the feature, so they wouldn't see the totals for anyone, but that is only because I'd hate to see this feature turned off because some don't like it. I'm pretty confident that this is the only thread where people will be talking about it very much, and once it fades a bit, it will just be most evident in an improvement in the overall tone of the FOG.

I don't really care what my karma is, but I think I will really like knowing if I am unwittingly engaging in a conversation with someone who does nothing but annoy others enough to click the negative karma button below their avatar (and I'm talking about dino here...). I'll also have to admit that it subtly helps me improve my tone -- that isn't a bad thing for people to do. The golden rule applied to democracy.

 

[Per Swenson]

Graphex,

I thank you for your kindness, your reasoning is all well and good.

Now get ready to hit that negative button, its all well and good for a forum full of children.

Not for a forum, chock full of some of the best trade and craftspeople around.

The likes of Jerry Works, John Lucas, the sterling reputation of Bob Marino, the skills of roger Savetteri,

Bill Wyko oh crap, each and everyone of you, dang it.

There are no children present.

I find it insulting and demeaning and now I find it Orwellian with the name change to Peer Rating.

Good grief. I'm hitting the sack, maybe this nonsense will go away in the morning.

Per

 

[Michael Kellough]

This rating idea would be far more instructive if individual posts were rated rather than a global rating of an individual's popularity, if, in fact, that's what this rating shows.

Presumably, with my high negative rating I should learn something from this, but I'm not sure what. There needs to be a baseline example to extrapolate from and I don't see it. For example, Matthew's rating should be as lopsided as mine but in the opposite direction, not roughly 50/50. Everyone is indebted to Matthew so why isn't that reflected in his rating?

After all, without Matthew's moderation we wouldn't be in this FOG.

 

[d.epstein]

...it might not be necessary!...Matthew

Agree.

I see... ;D ;D ;D

 

[Daviddubya]

...it might not be necessary!...Matthew

Agree.

I see... ;D ;D ;D

You do???

 

[TomCrawford]

I'm with Per and Roger on this! As an amateur this forum has been a great help to me but now is less and less so. Seriously considering moving on.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Morning,
Thanks everyone for posting your responses to this Karma thing.  We have some people for it, and a lot of people against it.  Maybe the Karma should get a Karma rating!

Some ponderings for the community -- positive, negative, and open-ended...

I changed the wording to "Peer Rating" because I thought that was more of a reflection that your positive level comes from your peers, not from the Orwellian State.  The administrator is subject to the same system.

Looking over the ratings so far, it seems that the best contributors receive the highest positives, and the more bad energy people have created the higher their negatives.  The administrator, of course, is a split decision!

If you're way up in the positive, you don't need any public voting.  You know what you're doing.  But if you're pissing people off, here's what happens... most people don't post that they are pissed off, and of course I don't make a habit of posting, "Everyone, I'm receiving angry messages about member XYZ."  What people do is send me messages offline telling me the are pissed off and asking me to do something about it.  The end result is, I have to deal with pissed off people myself, in private.  When I tell the person pissing people off he's pissing people off, he gets pissed off at me, and doesn't have any idea how many people he's purportedly pissed off.  Got the picture?

Please understand, I'm a lifelong tinkerer.  Ever since I was a kid, I took things apart to see how they work, and (sometimes) got them back together again.  I've done this with electronic equipment, musical instruments, computers, and software.  I experiment, I take chances.  You may not like some of my tinkering, and the things I tinkered with that are questionable seem to get more attention (like the Karma or the contractor thing).  But remember, this same tinkering mindset is also what got us the monthly contests, tools contributed by Festool, all those everyday features of this forum people like to use, the Gallery, and the sleek design of our space.  Hey, this forum itself is a product of experimental tinkering.  My point is, everything in a forum like this is derived from experimentation and trying things out.  Taking chances gets you great things, but it sometimes leads you down a wrong path.  But we have a safety net: if something doesn't work, we figure it out and stop using it.

We gotta get back to having more fun around here.  Fun, connections, and applying what comes up here to everyday woodworking is the very reason this forum exists.

Let me put a question to the community.  If I drop the Karma thing, how would you propose I deal with people who take away the fun of this forum?  Maybe we don't need Karma, but we do need all those people who like this community and want it to be fun to help keep it that way.

Put it all together, connect this Karma thing with the bigger picture, and tell me what you think.

Thanks everyone,
Matthew

 

[Per Swenson]

Matthew,

Sorry. by Orwellian, I meant same junk different name.

About the angry messages, are you the administrator or the moderator?

If you are the moderator, do not respond to angry PMs

Moderate the offending post , do it quickly or elect a moderator who will do the job.

How about Brice? Then just administrate.

This is your forum, granted. But I for one do not appreciate being experimented with.

As you mentioned earlier, about my strong opinion's and or lack of a opinon in certain things.

Yes you have a point, although it is not relevant to this peer/kharma thing.

But I expect you, if you plan on continuing to wear the two hats to frankly grow a pair.

The Christopherson Fiasco? You should have deleted and taken that off line as moderator and administrator

immediately. Ya don't engage em.

Good day

Per

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Per,
Actually, the idea of moderators has come up before.  I get about 20 messages a month about it.  They go something like this:
"Matthew, you really need a couple of moderators in the forum.  Of course, I don't personally want to do it."

Would you like to become a moderator?  Does Brice want to become a moderator?  I agree, that could be a step in the right direction, for many reasons.

I don't want you to misunderstand.  I'm not experimenting with you.  I'm experimenting with the structure of a forum, then people can choose to get involved in it, with all the features we see here.  I'm just never satisfied leaving things alone and always wonder how I can make it better.

The "Christopherson fiasco" you refer to is a good example.  Yes, a lot of people would have been happy for me to delete his comments -- end of story.  However, a lot of people like that this forum is not run that way and that members have a say in such matters.  I'll go further: a lot of this forum's success comes from openness, public ownership, and having a say in administrative matters.  This has been part of the plan all the way back to the Yahoo days.  Do you think the time has come for that basic principle to be reconsidered?

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Woodenfish]

DD,

You are looking at this the wrong way.

History teaches, but that is all we learn.

We are doomed to repeat it for the exact reason of, "That is what we know"

Individually, as a community and finally as a culture, we will do as we have always done.

Look at it this way. All of what we know is in the past. Right? Of course it is.

So when it come to group think, which is what culture is, the easiest most secure thing in the world

is do what one has always done.

Think I am full o crap? Maybe, but in a microcosm look at the routine of any day in your life

and tell me how much it changes one day to the next. See?

Patterns make us comfortable, you often hear the word stability in all kinds of relationships.

As Carpenters we have a advantage of changing employment options, but that still does not change the routine much.

It does not fully change the patterns of the way we think.

Because we derive our comfort from what we know, and all we know is history.

Per

Per, I don't understand your current position.

I thought you liked change?

I thought you were for change and that all change is good? 

This karma thing is change but now you say change is not good, which is it? ??? ??? ???

 

[Michael Kellough]

Per, I don't understand your current position.

I thought you liked change?

I thought you were for change and that all change is good? 

This karma thing is change but now you say change is not good, which is it? ??? ??? ???

Where is the quote? Or, do you just like putting words into other people's mouths?