adjusting the TS75

harry_

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The other day I went to cut some sheet goods @45 deg. Placed my rail on the work piece, made the cut... then I noticed that the cut, although straight and beveled properly, was no where near the guide line but 1/8"(ish) away.

I have read that with the TS55, if you cut at a bevel without using the guide rails this offset will exist and is normal. However I _was_ using guide rails,.... but using a TS75.

Any input from the FOG?

Going to go look for my owner's manual,... I put it some place safe so I wouldn't lose it [scratch chin]
 
Rick, thanks for the reply. So as far as you know TS55 rules apply to the TS75? Good to know.

Thanks for the info

I must be running a little thick in the head today as I am not finding that adjustment, as such, in that manual. I am thinking that the pivot point for the bevel needs to be raised.

It's no big deal, really. I dont cut 45's that often and when I noticed it the other day, it just made me think....
 
harry_ said:
Rick, thanks for the reply. So as far as you know TS55 rules apply to the TS75? Good to know.

Thanks for the info

I must be running a little thick in the head today as I am not finding that adjustment, as such, in that manual. I am thinking that the pivot point for the bevel needs to be raised.

It's no big deal, really. I dont cut 45's that often and when I noticed it the other day, it just made me think....

You're exactly right. A shim needs to be added between the saw's mounting blocks and the shoe plate.
Somewhere is a thread where Eiji and Mirko figured out that a shim with a thickness somewhere between a credit card and laminate needs to be placed between the shoe and the mount blocks. Here is a thread where the problem is being discussed. Not sure where the solution thread is...Shame on Festool for not solving this issue in production.  >:(

"Eiji Fuller

Location: San Diego, CA
Member Since: Feb 2007
Posts: 847

Re: Comment on Festools & Improvements you may want to see for them.
? Reply #4 on: May 25, 2008, 04:58 PM ?

The TS75 saw cuts the bevel farther out from the strip than the 90 deg cut. So when cuttn the 45 after the 90 it leaves a flat. I fixed it myself with no help from fesfool. I tried calling the service dept with this issue and they could not help. I have to say they have been great with everything else but on this issue they ignored me. Total false advertising here."
 
My apologies. I did not think my previous answer through properly, and I now see that there is no procedure in my manual for this adjustment. To the best of my knowledge, this situation does not impact the TS55 as far as I have heard, but I also do not know how prevalent it is with the TS75. I am not sure if this effects my own TS75 because I do not have a guide rail cut by my TS75 yet, so I can't tell if there is movement or not (there does not appear to be any, though).

Yes, raising the pivot point will re-tune the center of rotation so the entry point remains constant at any angle. However, I believe I may have determined the reason why this occurs on the TS75, but not the TS55, and I will be checking with Festool to determine if they are aware of this or not.

The TS75 has a slip-clutch with a brake-pad molded to the face of the arbor flange. If this slip-clutch material is thicker than specified, it will move the saw blade away from the center of the pivot. This will cause the cut position to move farther away during a bevel. The TS55 does not have this slip-clutch material, so the blade rests directly against the machined metal face of the arbor flange, and that is why no one sees this problem with a TS55.

So even though shimming the height of the base remedies the problem, I suspect the core problem is the thickness of the slip-clutch material. For this reason, I would think that the easiest solution is to get a replacement arbor flange, unless this is a universal problem to all TS75's, in which case, Festool needs to redesign the arbor flange to be thinner to account for the thickness of the slip-clutch.

One Important Note: If there is any debris or other reason why the arbor flange is not properly seated on the arbor, or if there is any debris or build-up on the flange or the blade, the same situation will occur. Because the arbor flange is removable from the arbor, it can be very likely to have sawdust impacted behind the arbor flange.
 
Rick,

[thanks] for all of your input.

One Important Note: If there is any debris or other reason why the arbor flange is not properly seated on the arbor, or if there is any debris or build-up on the flange or the blade, the same situation will occur. Because the arbor flange is removable from the arbor, it can be very likely to have sawdust impacted behind the arbor flange.

I would think I would notice this in other cuts, with blade wobble of `stalling` due to slippage of the clutch, no? I will look into this when I head down to the shop .

The only other issue that I have had with the saw, I have determined is not a `saw problem` but a `me problem`. I was getting some burning when cutting oak, similar to that which I get when using a tablesaw and have to `pause` to reposition my hands on the work piece.  I determined it was methodology, not tooling.  When making a rip cut on stock better then 6 or 7 feet, there was a point where I would cut rather slowly as I approached the end of my reach. Having realized this I now stop the cut a little sooner, reposition myself, back the saw up an inch or so, re-plunge then continue the cut.

Back to the problem at hand,...
It would seem that for now what I need to do is cut my bevels first, and then trim the opposite edge.  Or I could practice and learn if 1. the `offset` is consistent and if so learn how to work with that. I suppose it is no different than spacing off the rail to allow for a kerf.
 
Rick, the TS 75 cuts close to the guide rail already.

Reducing the thickness of the arbor flange would pretty much eliminate the splinter guard.
They need to send out the 75's adjusted to the same inside kerf position as the 55's.
And, they need to develop a shim kit (at the least) for the base mounts to lift the arbor up.

EDIT  Rick I just realized that these adjustments have an effect on the nodal point the pivot blocks project.
It's all a little too complicated for me to visualize clearly so I'm not as sure about my suggestions. 

Harry, you're right again. By carefully observing how the saw behaves you can adjust
your procedures to get the best from the tool, whether it performs as designed or not.
 
Harry_]I would think I would notice this in other cuts said:
Rick, the TS 75 cuts close to the guide rail already.

Reducing the thickness of the arbor flange would pretty much eliminate the splinter guard.

First off, the position away from the guide rail can be adjusted, which is the adjustment I mistakenly suggested in my first posting. ("Matching the TS55 to an Existing Guide Rail").

Raising the saw up with shims may or may not be the correct solution, depending on the actual cause. If the saw height is not the actual cause, then shimming will not correct for other angles besides 90 and 45. (Edit: I think the edit you made while I was typing this alludes to this.)

For example, if he raises his saw by the 1/8" necessary to correct the spacing at 45 degrees, then he will still be too far away from the splinter guard for angles less than 45.

The easiest way to identify whether the blade is too far away versus raising the saw, is to make duplicate cuts at different angles.  If the problem is due to height (the shimming solution), then all angles will cut at exactly the same location, and you will have a sharp edge on the multiple cuts. To check this, do the following:
  • Use a piece of wood that cuts easy, but not plywood. Something like poplar or pine will work good. You need to be able to see the sharp corner left behind.
  • DO NOT make a 90 degree cut.
  • Make your first cut at about 20 degrees, and about 6 inches long (stop short of cutting the whole length).
  • Next, set the saw to 45 degrees and first make the cut about 3 inches long before checking the result (stop short of the 20 degree cut).
  • After checking the result, continue the cut past the original 20 degree cut, and again check the result.
If shimming the saw is the correct solution, then you should not be able to distinguish the edge between the 20 and 45 degree cuts. They should both meet at the same sharp edge. The reason why I have you check the results before and after meeting up with the original cut is that sometimes you can't distinguish a slightly blunted edge, so this shows you both versions.

If the actual problem is the result of the blade being too far laterally from the pivot point (the brake pad thickness idea), then cuts at different angles will not meet at the same point. When you completed the procedure above, you will see a result similar to what is shown below. Notice that the area colored in Red cuts into the 45 degree point.

Oh, by the way; Even though I drew this as though I cut the 20 degree angle first, you will actually see a more noticeable result if you use the same procedure above (including the before/after inspection), if you cut the 45 degree cut before you make the 20 degree cut. By doing this, you will see a sharp jog in the point of the cut. I don't show it in the model, but the 45 degree cut is at the corner of the board, so the jog I refer to will be the same as what is shown between the 20 degree and 90 degree cut (that I told you not to make). Does that part make sense, or do I need to explain that better?

[attachimg=#]
 
Rick Christopherson said:
If shimming the saw is the correct solution, then you should not be able to distinguish the edge between the 20 and 45 degree cuts.

My gut tells me that's wrong Rick.  :-\  If it's right, when and how does the inside kerf
make the jump to the 90 degree position? I think if the saw is too low on the guide
rail there will be a smooth transition of the inside kerf location from 45 to 90.
In other words, the width of the wood left beyond the splinter guard will gradually
decrease as the bevel is decreased from 45 to 90 (or 0).

 
This is sounding more and more like something I need to/should wait to take care of. The bevel thing was something I just `happened` to notice and it is a rarity that I need to cut one. Certainly unnecessary for the project I am currently working.

As it stands right now, my TS75 cuts straight although slightly away from the splinter guard. With that said, I am getting predictable & repeatable 90 deg. cuts and that is what I need right now.

My fear at the moment is that I would get to tweaking it and end up in the land of adjustment FUBAR. Right now is not the time for me to jacking on something that will just fine for the task(s) at hand. Once I complete the current job, I will have more liberty with respect to any possible downtime with the saw.

All of this has been very useful information, and thank you all for the help.
 
Harry, I've got a ts75 as well , good saw all round I think.

I had the same problem as you, what I did notice is that when the saw was cutting at say 10mm it was nearly 2mm away from the splinterguard, and when I was cutting at full depth it was right on the splinterguard, actualy nearly cutting the rail, this bugged me, I was using the saw alot at the time and had to compensate how far away the rail was from the line depending on how deep the cut was, after a couple of days of doing this I'd had enough so I tried to adjust the saw, I ended up in that place that you are talking about- FUBAR.

In the end i sent the saw to Festool and they adjusted it and all is good for the time being, let's hope it stays that way.

Don't know for the life of me why this happened, anyone got any theories?

Thanks Dan.

 
Dan,

I love my TS75. The two biggest problems that I have with the saw relating to this problem are:
1). The amount of experience that I have with the saw is minimal in comparison to the two years that I have had it.
2). The things that I have been using the saw for have not been super critical as far as measuring goes. As long as a could get a straight, clean, glue-ready edge I was happy, and I have been very happy.

In the past I was primarily using it for the simple break-down of sheet goods, usually to put on a nosing or banding. On the time that I noticed my issue regarding the bevel, I was again doing something that was not `measurement critical`. The bevel only needed to be tight so that I could join them to form a 90. As I said earlier, my observation of the bevel cut to the splinter guard was made verycasually. It was just something that I `noticed` and then immediately shrugged off because I did not really care at the time, simply because I did not have the time to care. I don't really have the time to care now, because over the next several days the saw will getting a lot of use (but again no bevels), so I feel that right now is not the time for me to be jacking with adjustments that are more then good enough for the work that the saw will be doing.

Once the job I am working on is finished and the saw is returned to `relative idleness`, I can take the time to make quality measurements and cuts and inspect them a critical eye. Then I will be able to tell what is really happening.

Note:
To those that have replied, and in particular Rick, I don't want you guys to think I am blowing off your input. Not the case at all. Being a forum, and a holiday weekend, I was not expecting any kind of rapid response. With my current schedule, I was merely hoping to pool together some info for when I had the opportunity to attend to the matter properly.

Again, thank you for your input.

h_
 
danjames said:
Harry, I've got a ts75 as well , good saw all round I think.

I had the same problem as you, what I did notice is that when the saw was cutting at say 10mm it was nearly 2mm away from the splinterguard, and when I was cutting at full depth it was right on the splinterguard, actualy nearly cutting the rail, this bugged me, I was using the saw alot at the time and had to compensate how far away the rail was from the line depending on how deep the cut was, after a couple of days of doing this I'd had enough so I tried to adjust the saw, I ended up in that place that you are talking about- FUBAR.

In the end i sent the saw to Festool and they adjusted it and all is good for the time being, let's hope it stays that way.

Don't know for the life of me why this happened, anyone got any theories?

Thanks Dan.

Dan, that sounds like the saw was adjusted with a little too much toe in. The difference in the depth of cut corresponds with the difference in the length of the blade in the kerf. If you measured the kerfs at that time I think you'd find that the kerf of the deep cut was substantially wider than the shallow cut. Even with a perfectly adjusted saw you'll still get a similar result but not as extreme. The 75 has a much broader range of depths so the effect is more noticable than on the 55 saws. (Your 75 might also have the same issue as Harry's saw. Have you made bevel suts since it was returned?

A circular saw blade needs to run toe in a little to avoid back scoring. On a table saw you make the adjustment with the fence. With the larger blades on table saws it becomes apparent that the projection of the blade affects the bevel angle (in addition to the kerf width). If you're getting a prefect 90 degree cut at full depth it will be slightly off 90 at a shallow depth because of the curve of the blade. If the blade tilts towards the fence you'll need to tilt it a little more to get 90 at swallow depth. Guided plunge saws are also subject to this so you have to test and confirm the actual bevel at different depths.
 
Thank you Michael,

At the moment all is good with the saw, even bevel cuts, I had read about toe in but was not actually aware of it's effects until you explained them to me.

Thanks for the info  [smile], also is it possible for me to adjust this, if so how.

T
 
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