Advice about CMS modules and parts

[JavierMoreno]

Hello everyone.

I'm thinking of buying some Festool CMS modules and parts and would like to receive advice on whether the items I want to buy will be as useful as I think or if it may be better to replace it with others.

The buying list is:

1. TF 1400-Set (Basic unit CMS + Module support router + OF1400) (570269) I have got the OF 1010 already, but it will be useful let the 1400 in the module. I save 300€ buying together.

2. Bench saw module mounting CMS TS 55 R (570281) Saw not included. I have got TS55 RBQ already.

3. CMS-PS (561262) Saw not included. I have got the Carvex.

4. Fence LA-CS 50/CMS 492095

5. Slinding table ST 492100

6. Table extension (widener) VB-CMS (493822)

8. Adjustable stop WA-AR WA-AR (491712)

MINI Dust extractor adapters:

9. Longlife filter bag for the MINI I have (499703)
10. Dust extraction set CS 70 AB 488292
11. Adapter hose AD-D36/CS50/CS70/CMS (499196)

I'm especially interested in your opinions about to buy the table extension widener and not the outfeed extension. I think the widener will be more useful than the outfeed, because I can use the MFT as outfeed.

Apologizes for my bad English.

 

[Holmz]

Do you really need the CMS?

For a router table a dedicated table may work better. If you coupled a Triton router TR1 (?) to the table it may be pretty good.

 

[PreferrablyWood]

I think your list seems pretty good, you already have the saws, getting the set with the OF 1400 is a great solution. The side table increases the with of the workpiece you are able to rip. The fence is needed for taking full advantage of the side table. If you need portability and accuracy then the CMS is a good solution. The sliding side table is excellent

 

[Kev]

That's a solid combination. Be aware the router will fill your vac quite quickly!!

Good choice on avoiding the outset table too .. It's only small and a pain adjust correctly.

 

[Bohdan]

Be aware the router will fill your vac quite quickly!!

Get a Dust Deputy it's a much cheaper option, recently one days routing on solid timber produced over 60 litres of chips.

 

[JavierMoreno]

Do you really need the CMS?

Yes, I do. I have a really small workplace . Well, actually , the place is not small, because I use a wide rooftop as a workplace. But the rooftop is obviously not covered, therefore I can not leave machines outdoors. I keep them in a small room in which taking advantage of every inch keep the Systainers , the MFT, modules and so on.

Good choice on avoiding the outset table too ..

I think so. Thanks!

Get a Dust Deputy...

I wish, but in Europe is not so easy to buy one.

[member=23193]PreferrablyWood[/member] thanks for you kindest answer.

 

[Holmz]

Yeah [member=43849]JavierMoreno[/member] I feel your pain.
It is always a challenge to fit into a cramped space, and the CMS is probably the way to go then.

 

[jeh]

Hello everyone.

I'm thinking of buying some Festool CMS modules and parts and would like to receive advice on whether the items I want to buy will be as useful as I think or if it may be better to replace it with others.

The buying list is:

1. TF 1400-Set (Basic unit CMS + Module support router + OF1400) (570269) I have got the OF 1010 already, but it will be useful let the 1400 in the module. I save 300€ buying together.

2. Bench saw module mounting CMS TS 55 R (570281) Saw not included. I have got TS55 RBQ already.

3. CMS-PS (561262) Saw not included. I have got the Carvex.

4. Fence LA-CS 50/CMS 492095

5. Slinding table ST 492100

6. Table extension (widener) VB-CMS (493822)

8. Adjustable stop WA-AR WA-AR (491712)

MINI Dust extractor adapters:

9. Longlife filter bag for the MINI I have (499703)
10. Dust extraction set CS 70 AB 488292
11. Adapter hose AD-D36/CS50/CS70/CMS (499196)

I'm especially interested in your opinions about to buy the table extension widener and not the outfeed extension. I think the widener will be more useful than the outfeed, because I can use the MFT as outfeed.

Apologizes for my bad English.

#2: I recommend a small portable tablesaw like the Dewalt DWE7480. It will be more accurate than the CMS and much easier to setup + your TS55 won't have to be removed/inserted from the CMS panel to be used. The smaller tablesaw have a very small footprint and very good cutting capacity (much more than the CMS). The Dewalt's have a geared fence system that is dead on accurate once setup correctly. A knob adjusts the fence left or right. A cordless version is coming at the end of August, but I'd stick with the corded model. The CMS is 380€ + fence and adjustable stop which I venture to guess will put you north of 500€ without VAT.

#9: Mini is probably too small for use with a router, which generates a tremendous amount of debris when using anything, but a round over bit. The long life filter bag will eliminate bag costs, but there the hassle of continuously emptying the bag. Might consider a cheaper, lesser vacuum which will work perfectly with the CMS without the extreme costs.

I do think there is appeal for the TS55 CMS module only because it exists. It looks like a cheap way to get a tablesaw, but what you end up with is an expensive, but marginal saw that is easily bettered by a small portable table saw.

Also, if you an MFT consider the VL CMS. The table is slightly larger and more stable than the GE.

 

[sancho57]

thats a similar set that I have, the jig saw module is pretty cool  especially great for jig making the extension table, I recommend getting the one with the legs easier to adj. You need to have it adj makes  the fence easier to use .  Instead of the 1400 I would go for the big boy the 2200. Then get the 6 mm collet for it so you can use 1/4 bits in the table.

 

[JavierMoreno]

I recommend getting the one with the legs easier to adj.

Do you know the part number?

Instead of the 1400 I would go for the big boy the 2200.

I thought 2020 might be overskill for my needs, but now I'm thinking again.

Thanks!

 

[JavierMoreno]

#2: I recommend a small portable tablesaw like the Dewalt DWE7480.

I was considering that. Even, my dealer offer me an Erika at a good price, but I have a really small place. If I choose a portable saw, I couldn't have a router table.

#9: Mini is probably too small

I know. I am going to considerer a big one.

It looks like a cheap way to get a tablesaw, but what you end up with is an expensive, but marginal saw that is easily bettered by a small portable table saw.

With the workspace available, I must resign to have a marginal form of everything insofar as the marginal form is modular  [blink]

 

[Kev]

It looks like a cheap way to get a tablesaw, but what you end up with is an expensive, but marginal saw that is easily bettered by a small portable table saw.

With the workspace available, I must resign to have a marginal form of everything insofar as the marginal form is modular  [blink]

Add a couple of Wixey products and you're getting great accuracy once you've got everything dialled in. I'm using the TS75 .. so I've effectively got 70mm cut capacity and more grunt in the saw. Depth adjustment is dead easy, angle adjustment is the only real fiddly bit.

The sliding table is a must - extremely useful. The rip fence can be a little annoying - I believe the side extension table and rip fence could be much better designed.

 

[RC]

> 1. TF 1400-Set (Basic unit CMS + Module support router + OF1400) (570269) I have got the OF 1010 already, but it will be
> useful let the 1400 in the module. I save 300€ buying together.

I would go for the kit with the OF2200 rather since you already have the 1010 for hand-routing. The 1400 is more of a do-it-all router in the Festool lineup and I see it as a bit of an either 1010 + 2200 or 1400 only to have the best combination. That said, I have the 1400 in the CMS and I rarely bother to remove it to hand-route and go to amazing lenghts to figure how to do the routing without removing it from the CMS module regardless how 'easy & quick it is'. Really could use the extra power of the 2200 some times to spin larger bits safely, even though the 1400 isn't a weak router either.

> 2. Bench saw module mounting CMS TS 55 R (570281) Saw not included. I have got TS55 RBQ already.

This is my permanent module in my CMS.

> 3. CMS-PS (561262) Saw not included. I have got the Carvex.

If you have a choise, rather get a bandsaw. This will not become a bandsaw. Period. Tried it with a Carvex, failed miserably. Since the blade is not supported from the top the cut will slant and wonder. The only usage I've found for this is cutting 6mm thin plywood kinda as a substitute for a scroll saw with thin blades and even then it's only barely passable. Also dust collection is crappy since there is little to no space under the table for the hose and nothing above table to suck dust in. Also you can only do 90-degree cuts with a Carvex as the adapter is fixed plastic and the saw cannot be tilted. if you had the older jigsaw in it it might be tiltable, but since I don't have it can't tell for sure.

> 4. Fence LA-CS 50/CMS 492095

I went with the Incra fence (I've posted some of it Hereas well). Beats the Festool fence hands down in repeatablity and versatility and for me it was about price neutral as well. I tried this fence @ my local Festool dealer and it didn't square itself so it's a fiddle to get right.

> 5. Slinding table ST 492100

Must have with the table saw module and also handy with the router module if you plan on routing tenons or such.

> 6. Table extension (widener) VB-CMS (493822)

I chose to get the CMS-VL for my MFT3 to have all the space on the table and also have the Incra fence attachment with benchdogs to the MFT3 for quick removal. The price of these here in Finland are totally cost prohibitive.

> 8. Adjustable stop WA-AR WA-AR (491712)

Good if you go for the festool fences, the Incra comes with a stop of its own if you go for the SuperSystem like I did.

> 9. Longlife filter bag for the MINI I have (499703)

If you move your setup around the longlife bag is much better than the cyclones suggested here as well. If your vac & cyclone can stay statically in one place then go cyclone.

> 10. Dust extraction set CS 70 AB 488292

I've got it, never use it. If you intend to keep the dust hood in place on your saw module this is good, but the hoses don't have any support above so it's always in the way and I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth the bother to fiddle with the changing of the riving knive of the saw which retracts with the blade and therefore enables you to cut grooves on the table saw as well to the static dust hood holder which also limits you to only cutting through applications.

> 11. Adapter hose AD-D36/CS50/CS70/CMS (499196)

Seems to be a Mini vac specific thing so can't say one way or the other. I use a CTL36 AC and what I can say is that running a router on the vac will fill bags in a hurry with chips so I would assume that a Mini would be even worse. For saw dust it takes forever to fill a bag. You don't need the AC unless you're doing super fine dust sucking all the time, like sanding down wall leveler.

> I'm especially interested in your opinions about to buy the table extension widener and not the outfeed extension. I think the
> widener will be more useful than the outfeed, because I can use the MFT as outfeed.

I started with the CMS-OF1400 kit and ended up going the MFT3/MFT-VL/Incra fence system because it's more versatile and was cheaper than buying the Festool extra tables. I use the left-over CMS-baseunit as my outfeed table for the VL since they are uniform height and since I did buy the CMS-PS I have that in the extra base unit as a solid table top. (I know, quite expensive table top, but it's the best use I've found for it)

> Apologizes for my bad English.

I think your English is very good, Sir.

++ Reiska

 

[Kev]

[member=12043]Reiska[/member] makes a great point on the 2200 ... that's what I've got sitting in my CMS OF right now.

 

[JavierMoreno]

Add a couple of Wixey products and you're getting great accuracy once you've got everything dialled in.

Thanks [member=13058]Kev[/member]

I found this: Wixey Digital Angle Gauge with Hold and ABS functions (http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/wixey-digital-angle-gauge-with-magnetic-base-5781.html)

Do I need any more ?

 

[SMJoinery]

Good Morning Javier.

I think you are making some very wise choices. I have a very narrow workshop but the CMS compliments it quite well. The CMS also transports easily if we need to take it out to a customers premises and performs well regardless.
Rather than recommend what you should think of purchasing can I describe my set up and reason for purchasing. Hopefully you will find some good points applicable to your own circumstances.
I own the MFT3 which acts as the outfield table for my CMS GE unit.
The CMS set up I have has the table widener fitted.
I have ts55 but purchased the Ts75 module insert and saw for the CMS. It provides a deeper and more powerful cut but my main reason was ease of use. It is by no means difficult to swap the saw in and out the module however I think that it is for me some time that frequently would become annoying and I prefer to do it only when absolutely needed.
The TS75 CMS is a great saw. I have a dewalt table saw which is now redundant. The dust extraction with the double connection is superior. I use the angle head fence which after tuning I find very accurate for my needs so far.
As many have said simply by a wixey digital angle gauge to remove any set up issues for angles etc. It's a great piece of kit for mitre saw, table saw and workshop generally.
I have a carvex but having seen the cms insert prefer to use it free hand as it a jigsaw.
I have the three routers from Festool. The 1010 fulfills most of my free handed routing needs in the workshop. The 1400 completes any remaining needs. The 2200 is fitted permanently in the cms module. It's a beautiful router and performs very very well in the cms. This set up would also give you edging capabilities within the same footprint.
I have a midi extract permanently sited below the cms with normal bags fitted. I don't empty the bags or use the long life bags. I class these items as workshop consumables, factor them into my business overhead and charge accordingly.
The sliding table is a great accessory for routing and sawing. In your smaller workshop you might find that it makes a great mitre saw alternative using it with the saw insert.
I think the CMS is a great set up for a small or mobile workshop. My "past life" has experience of large static fixed workshop machinery capable of huge production levels. However the CMS used with the same skills can produce beautiful, accurate and precise work. It can also repeat the results but in a smaller workshop like mine you have to plan more carefully and smartly in order to work efficiently.
I hope the above helps you coming to a choice on your CMS shopping list.
Please ask any questions you would like. I'm more than happy to help if I can.
I'll post some pics from my phone later.
Cheers.
Scott

 

[SMJoinery]

Add a couple of Wixey products and you're getting great accuracy once you've got everything dialled in.

Thanks [member=13058]Kev[/member]

I found this: Wixey Digital Angle Gauge with Hold and ABS functions (http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/wixey-digital-angle-gauge-with-magnetic-base-5781.html)

Do I need any more ?

This is the wixey gauge I have.
Where in the Canary Islands are you Javier?, we spend every Xmas in Gran Canaria!

 

[Holmz]

#2: I recommend a small portable tablesaw like the Dewalt DWE7480.

I was considering that. Even, my dealer offer me an Erika at a good price, but I have a really small place. If I choose a portable saw, I couldn't have a router table.
...

The Erika can hold a router on it and someone here has a FT-2200 installed on one.  [big grin]
And you could also put a Incra fence on the Erika, which makes it pretty sweet, and it would likely outperform the CMS.
Another fellow has mounted a jigsaw on an Erika.
Once you add up all the CMS parts, and if you do not have a Kapex and use it for Kapex type of work... then the cost is not vastly different.

I do not think it can get better unless it is a proper Felder/Hammer but they are not portable and you need a big ship to get it to where you are at.

 

[Kev]

Add a couple of Wixey products and you're getting great accuracy once you've got everything dialled in.

Thanks [member=13058]Kev[/member]

I found this: Wixey Digital Angle Gauge with Hold and ABS functions (http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/wixey-digital-angle-gauge-with-magnetic-base-5781.html)

Do I need any more ?

[member=43849]JavierMoreno[/member]

I've got ...
http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/wixey-wr25-mini-digital-height-gauge.html

and
http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/wixey-wr365-digital-angle-gauge-with-level-and-flip-up-display.html

... the height gauge is more for the router, but is also useful for the saw.

 

[JavierMoreno]

Hi [member=12043]Reiska[/member], thank you very much for you high informative post.

I love your setup (even the football ball  [tongue]).

[attachimg=1]

Let me them elaborate the purchase list and, please, let me know if it's OK

1. MFT 3 - VL (495510)
2. Insert module for router CMS-OF (500608)
3. OF 2200 EB-Plus (570251)
4. Insert module for Saw CMS TS55 R (570281)
5. Sliding Table (492100)
6. INCRA LS 25 Range Super Joinery Fence System METRIC

I think number 2 and number 6 are something redundant, but I don't know if I can buy everything of the router insert module except the fence. And I don't know if that will not be more expensive than buy it all together.