Advice needed on re-varnishing bar top

[andy5405]

A good friend of mine Harry is also the landlord of my local pub and I have often discussed sanding and varnishing their bar top. It is not something I know a lot about and my friend has been reluctant to take it on for a long time because of fears about dust. I put his mind at ease the other night re the dust and explained that Festool don't do dust. He's happy with that as he knows I'm a tool nerd and a Festool junkie. So all I have for this project is a CT26 and two guys (me and Harry) who are willing to take it on. Harry's DIY skills are lacking and we often rib him mercilessly for some of the things he comes up with in his constant efforts to maintain a big 19th century building. He is not lacking in confidence to take on almost anything  DIY related and has that inventiveness to make do with rubbish tools that I have probably lost as my tool arsenal constantly expands.

Anyway I know I will need a sander and this could be a good opportunity to add to my Festool collection. I will only be able to afford one and it has to be capable of doing this job well and being a good all rounder for the rest of my work which is mainly kitchens and bathrooms for now but will involve a lot more general refurb work next year.

So my first question is which sander do I get.

The next one is timing. We will only have 13 hour windows to work in and allow for drying. That's 11pm closing to 12am opening the next day. What varnish will we need to use?

I don't know what timber the bar is made form but I can make some enquiries and take a few pictures as well which I will post at a later date.

   

 

[Peterm]

Rotex 150 would be my choice for a good all-rounder, possibly an ETS 150/5 if you're not taking the bar back to bare wood - though I find the Rotex to be more useful in general refurb. work. I'm a big fan of Junkers Strong floor lacquer - it's a water-borne polyurethane, low-odour, fast-drying and very hard wearing. I've used it on a variety of jobs, from furniture to floors, and it's always turned out very nicely. Osmo Polyx Oil would be another option, though I don't know if it would dry sufficiently in your time-frame.

HTH, Pete.

 

[Kev]

On finishing first ... after you apply "whatever", you need a temperature, humidity and appropriate airflow suitable for drying - doesn't matter what you use, you can still screw up the drying process if you're not thinking.

On the finish itself ... I don't know what you have available - from my own experience I'd lean towards something in the Sikkens range ... but I just down know what you're after. (There's plenty of durable quick drying stuff out there!)

On where to start ... pick a sport that isn't going to matter and do a trial run. Then you'll know how much you can tackle in a go.

Now for the sander ... for an all rounder I do feel the ROTEX is king, but we don't know what the surface is like and we don't know how complex or ornamentally intricate the details are. A ROTEX RO 90 could be your saviour, with the delta capability - or the RO 150 battleship could be your rapid prep friend (more detail is needed to answer this dilemma) ... is it just a big flat top??

Kev.

 

[Sam Murdoch]

I started out down the Festool sander line with an RO 125. It is a great tool. Have finished lots of hard wood flat surfaces with it including a walnut bar top - not a wonderful sander for soft woods that are intended to have a clear or stained finish. It requires many more levels of fine grit sanding than I expect. I have written many times on this forum that the RO is a very tricky sander to learn how to use. I write this with nearly 40 years of woodworking and sander experience. The RO is a very versatile sander but it is by far NOT my first choice as a FINISH sander. I am now also using the ETS150/3. This is a wonderful finish sander for all woods - soft or hard! NOW, having written that Andy, as you are writing that you are looking for one good general purpose sander I would suggest that the "good all rounder" one for you is the ETS150/5. It is not one I have experience with but based on other forum reports I am inclined to believe that it is as balanced and easy to use as the less aggressive 150/3 and I have to believe that it will be an easier sander for finish work than the RO150. The ETS150/5 has a more aggressive orbit than the 150/3 and so can be used for a greater range of sanding needs than the 150/3 which is really a finish sander above all else.

As for the finish - the drying time and hard use requirements of this bar top lead me to believe that my favorite bar top finish - Waterlox - is NOT appropriate. I defer to others as what will be a better product. Waterlox is unbelievably hard and durable but it takes wayyyyy to long to dry properly - let alone in 13 hours.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Behlens

 

[andy5405]

Thanks for all the replies. I have plenty of time to think this one thorough as it won't happen for a while as it is a love job. I have often wondered why people on here seem to own so many sanders and now I have focused on a particular project I can begin to see why that is. The Rotex 125 would seem to be the favorite at the moment as I would serve me better in my other work. If I had an unlimited pocket it would be the RO90, RO150 and the ETS150.

 

[Kev]

Thanks for all the replies. I have plenty of time to think this one thorough as it won't happen for a while as it is a love job. I have often wondered why people on here seem to own so many sanders and now I have focused on a particular project I can begin to see why that is. The Rotex 125 would seem to be the favorite at the moment as I would serve me better in my other work. If I had an unlimited pocket it would be the RO90, RO150 and the ETS150.

I've got RO 90, RO 150, ETS 150/5 ... on top of that I've got a Bosch 75mm belt sander, Rupes delta sander, a Rupes 150 rotary sander, Makita 1/3 sheet sander ... and probably more if I dig harder.

Trouble is (and you will find) there's not satisfying the "urge" to get the Festool experience ... I'll probably cash the non Festool stuff and get the BS 75 with the floating frame, plus the RS 200. I do have a desire to look into the Mirka CEROS finishing sanders as an option instead of the ETS 125 though.

Kev.

 

[Wonderwino]

I actually did a job like this last spring, but the bar was closed for two weeks while I did it.  I used my RO125 with 60 grit rubin in rotary mode to take it back to bare wood, the oak was badly stained form the previous finish failure.  I then switched to RO and went 80, 120 and 180 cristal to smooth the surface.  I applied 4 coats of Minwax Marine varnish, 24 hours appart, sanding with my ETS 125 and 220 paper between coats.  The Midi was the dust extractor I used for both and never had to wipe anything up after sanding, other than the bar top with a damp cloth to stand the grain up.

It came out great, although after some use, there are dents in the finish, but no cracks.

 

[atomicmike]

Is there any chance that the bar closes for a holiday at some point, to give you more working time? While I've never tried refinishing a bar top, 13 hours seems like quite a stretch to get it sanded down, and refinished sufficiently to put it back into production. Many finishes that are dry to the touch within a few hours still require several days (if not weeks) before they reach their full strength. General Finishes Enduro-Var, for instance, dries to the touch in 1-4 hours, but takes about 3 days at room temperature to become durable, and around 7 days to reach full cure strength. I'd be concerned for a freshly-applied finish that has to endure 11 hours of use/abuse, cleaners, sanitizers, etc. Especially considering that you don't know what bar patrons may spill onto the surface; someone may spill a good amount of moisturizer containing silicone, giving you quite a headache.

Would it be possible to build a temporary cover out of plywood to slip over the bar top while you're in the process of refinishing it? That way, you could come in during the evening and do your refinishing, then cover it up for the next day's traffic.

- Mike

 

[CharlesWilson]

If you use Behlens Rockhard finish, it will take weeks before it gets rock hard. It isn't a good idea to try to polish it before it gets really hard.

 

[stairman]

I would probably use ML Campbell CV  (Conversion Varnish,  aka  acid catalyzed lacquer)

sand to 150,  wash coat, sponge sand/clean , sealer coat, sponge sand/clean, then lay on the CV,  and within a couple hours you can handle, by the next day you can put into service...  done deal and it is hard as a rock/tough as nails or whatever superlative euphemism you want to attach to it.
great stuff.

I even use it on stair treads and handrails...

stains/dyes/glazes can be used if you need to augment color,  OR  you can tint the CV itself which works really well for anything from slight to medium color augmentation