Peter Kelly
Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2012
- Messages
- 363
dlu said:
You’ll want cast acrylic if you go that route.
Advice on Frame & Panel Doors
- Thread starter dlu
- Start date
You’ll want cast acrylic if you go that route.
I don’t think the two panels will ever lie perfectly flat. So I expect that there will be areas where the plexiglass is in contact with the tissue, and other areas where it is not.
When I worked in the black and white photo lab, there were two types of negative carriers through which the image was projected onto the photographic paper.
There was the glass-less carrier which held the film flat by sandwiching the perimeter of the negative between aluminum frames. For larger negatives that system might not hold the negative flat enough.
For the larger negatives there were glass carriers which sandwiched the negative between two sheets of glass.
Glass carriers had a litany of problems. Dust would get on the glass and would show up in the print. Fingerprints would get on the glass. The outer surfaces were not too bad, but the interior surfaces were difficult to keep clean.
With acrylic, it will be far worse. Static will attract particles. Getting that sandwich made with clean interior surfaces will be a daunting task.
And then there is the problem with newton rings, an optical phenomenon that occurs when glass (or plastic) surfaces are not in perfect contact.
This is an example. Google “newton rings” for an explanation of why it happens.
https://www.luminitco.com/diffuser_films_for displays
And here is an explanation of the phenomena. There was a much longer and more detailed video, but it called out “Newton Ring’s”. The unneeded apostrophe nixed it for me.
When I worked in the black and white photo lab, there were two types of negative carriers through which the image was projected onto the photographic paper.
There was the glass-less carrier which held the film flat by sandwiching the perimeter of the negative between aluminum frames. For larger negatives that system might not hold the negative flat enough.
For the larger negatives there were glass carriers which sandwiched the negative between two sheets of glass.
Glass carriers had a litany of problems. Dust would get on the glass and would show up in the print. Fingerprints would get on the glass. The outer surfaces were not too bad, but the interior surfaces were difficult to keep clean.
With acrylic, it will be far worse. Static will attract particles. Getting that sandwich made with clean interior surfaces will be a daunting task.
And then there is the problem with newton rings, an optical phenomenon that occurs when glass (or plastic) surfaces are not in perfect contact.
This is an example. Google “newton rings” for an explanation of why it happens.
https://www.luminitco.com/diffuser_films_for displays
And here is an explanation of the phenomena. There was a much longer and more detailed video, but it called out “Newton Ring’s”. The unneeded apostrophe nixed it for me.
Packard said:
OMG that brings back good/bad memories -- I loved working in the darkroom and **hated** the glass Durst negative carrier and its Newton rings and bits of dust, but man when you got it right you could see the difference in edge-to-edge sharpness, even for 35 mm negatives.
On the other hand, I was really familiar with Newton rings when I started working on precision instruments where we used them and very special glass blocks to check the parallelism of the anvil/spindle of micrometers. [big grin]
Fortunately, I think the paper will keep the glass/plastic from ever getting close enough for Newton rings to be an issue.
But static and dust will make assembling the sandwich a real chore.
When I did darkroom work, I used a condenser enlarger. If you raised the light housing slightly you could examine the surface of the negative and the contrasty light source made any specks of dust highly visible.
If there was any dust, I would clean the negative again. I would repeat that process as often as required to get a totally clean negative. I never had to learn how to “spot” prints.
The time spent cleaning would always be less than the time spent “spotting”.
Note: “Spotting” is the technique of using dyes and a fine tipped spotting brush to manually retouch the dust spots on a print.
Unfortunately, “spotting” will not be available to correct dust spots in the door.
The best approach will be to create the sandwich outside the door, hold the two sheet of plastic with the tissue interleaving at arm’s length and examine the assembly for dust. Then flip it to the other side to repeat.
With the tissue in place, you won’t be able to use compressed air to clean off dust. I would set aside an hour or more to do that process.
Note: Japanese rice paper comes with patterns pressed in, plain, or with real butterflies pressed in. Any of the patterns would work to hide dust spots. I would do a search for
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-m&sca_esv=90e47ce38a807d1a&q=shoji+screen+paper+roll&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPhpL0kNOEAxWIpIkEHWsfD0oQ0pQJegQIEBAB&biw=1128&bih=627&dpr=2
When I did darkroom work, I used a condenser enlarger. If you raised the light housing slightly you could examine the surface of the negative and the contrasty light source made any specks of dust highly visible.
If there was any dust, I would clean the negative again. I would repeat that process as often as required to get a totally clean negative. I never had to learn how to “spot” prints.
The time spent cleaning would always be less than the time spent “spotting”.
Note: “Spotting” is the technique of using dyes and a fine tipped spotting brush to manually retouch the dust spots on a print.
Unfortunately, “spotting” will not be available to correct dust spots in the door.
The best approach will be to create the sandwich outside the door, hold the two sheet of plastic with the tissue interleaving at arm’s length and examine the assembly for dust. Then flip it to the other side to repeat.
With the tissue in place, you won’t be able to use compressed air to clean off dust. I would set aside an hour or more to do that process.
Note: Japanese rice paper comes with patterns pressed in, plain, or with real butterflies pressed in. Any of the patterns would work to hide dust spots. I would do a search for
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-m&sca_esv=90e47ce38a807d1a&q=shoji+screen+paper+roll&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPhpL0kNOEAxWIpIkEHWsfD0oQ0pQJegQIEBAB&biw=1128&bih=627&dpr=2
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2007
- Messages
- 13,126
I had bookmarked this website for an idea I had for doors: https://www.eshoji.com
The do have in their waterproof section shoji on plexiglass in applicable sizes. Thinner (2MM) and might be out of your budget, but may be worth a look. Also have peel and stick as well as other types of shoji paper. Also, might be an idea to contact them with your questions. Maybe they can recommend something that none of us has thought about.
Good luck!
Peter
The do have in their waterproof section shoji on plexiglass in applicable sizes. Thinner (2MM) and might be out of your budget, but may be worth a look. Also have peel and stick as well as other types of shoji paper. Also, might be an idea to contact them with your questions. Maybe they can recommend something that none of us has thought about.
Good luck!
Peter
I called the shoji paper “rice paper” and I am not sure that is an accurate term.
I see it called “washi paper”.
On shoji screens, the paper is first attached and then wet with water. As it dries it shrinks to a drum-tight fit. That would no apply for the door application.
They may artificial shoji paper that is not paper at all and is supposed to be quite tough. I don’t know anything about that stuff.
I think any of the patterned papers would mitigate the dust, fingerprint issue.
Here is a better link: https://www.google.com/search?q=shoji+screen+rice+paper+washi+paper&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiE2IPIoNOEAxUFFmIAHVvQDi8Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=shoji+screen+rice+paper+washi+paper&gs_lp=EgNpbWciI3Nob2ppIHNjcmVlbiByaWNlIHBhcGVyIHdhc2hpIHBhcGVySOlrULwhWOBccAR4AJABAJgBV6ABqQmqAQIxN7gBDMgBAPgBAYoCC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwgIEECMYJ4gGAQ&sclient=img&ei=dePhZcTJI4WsiLMP26C7-AI&bih=707&biw=1151&client=firefox-b-1-m
I see it called “washi paper”.
On shoji screens, the paper is first attached and then wet with water. As it dries it shrinks to a drum-tight fit. That would no apply for the door application.
They may artificial shoji paper that is not paper at all and is supposed to be quite tough. I don’t know anything about that stuff.
I think any of the patterned papers would mitigate the dust, fingerprint issue.
Here is a better link: https://www.google.com/search?q=shoji+screen+rice+paper+washi+paper&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiE2IPIoNOEAxUFFmIAHVvQDi8Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=shoji+screen+rice+paper+washi+paper&gs_lp=EgNpbWciI3Nob2ppIHNjcmVlbiByaWNlIHBhcGVyIHdhc2hpIHBhcGVySOlrULwhWOBccAR4AJABAJgBV6ABqQmqAQIxN7gBDMgBAPgBAYoCC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwgIEECMYJ4gGAQ&sclient=img&ei=dePhZcTJI4WsiLMP26C7-AI&bih=707&biw=1151&client=firefox-b-1-m
The first door is finished and installed, so a followup and photos seem to be in order. First, many thanks to everyone who offered advice, it was most helpful.
I decided to abandon my original idea of using a plexiglass sandwich in a slot and went with two sheets of 1/8" clear tempered glass from Peninsula Glass (aka OneDayGlass.com) in Vancouver, WA. I'm close enough to drive down there to pick up my orders, but they can also ship. I really like dealing with them, their prices are good, customer service is great -- they were happy to talk through the options for transporting the glass with me, and they are just generally pleasant and accommodating.
Between the MDF frame and the glass the doors weigh in at around 90 pounds. The pocket door hardware I chose (Johnson 111 series) mounts the carriages with two screws. I wasn't comfortable trusting MDF to hold that load, so I cross drilled and installed 3/4" oak dowels to screw into.
Here is the first door in place:
View attachment 1
And here it is with some light on the other side:
View attachment 2
I decided to abandon my original idea of using a plexiglass sandwich in a slot and went with two sheets of 1/8" clear tempered glass from Peninsula Glass (aka OneDayGlass.com) in Vancouver, WA. I'm close enough to drive down there to pick up my orders, but they can also ship. I really like dealing with them, their prices are good, customer service is great -- they were happy to talk through the options for transporting the glass with me, and they are just generally pleasant and accommodating.
Between the MDF frame and the glass the doors weigh in at around 90 pounds. The pocket door hardware I chose (Johnson 111 series) mounts the carriages with two screws. I wasn't comfortable trusting MDF to hold that load, so I cross drilled and installed 3/4" oak dowels to screw into.
Here is the first door in place:
View attachment 1
And here it is with some light on the other side:
View attachment 2
