Advice sought on learning dovetails

[Mismarked]

Was wondering if any of the experienced guys had any advice about learning how to do dovetails, i.e., router and jig vs. hand tools.  I have an OF 1400 and bought a dovetail jig a couple of months ago, which I have not even tried to set up yet, but have some time this weekend.  Was wondering if anyone thought it would be best to learn to do it by hand first and then move to the router method after getting the feel for how these things go together, or vice versa.  As a hobbyist, I am in no rush to complete projects, but just want to learn the techniques.  Thanks.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Not sure I qualify as "experienced", but that doesn't keep me from having opinions. [big grin]
First of all, I would start with the router jig.  That will give you the basic idea of how they fit together and why they may be worth doing by hand.  DTs cut with standard spacing jigs can be boring.  The jigs that offer variable spacing are persnickety and take a lot of set up.  Hand cut DTs can be pretty much anything that comes to mind.

In either method, its important that the stock be cut dead square or you just won't get a good fit.

A woodworker I greatly respect who is a master at dts told me that for fine furniture, he hand cuts.  But if he were making kitchen cabinets, he would go for the jig.

When you first use your jig, take the time to fuss with it to dial in just the right fit.  Do that on some scrap pieces the same width and thickness as your project pieces.  If your jig won't hold its settings, look for a better one.  Life is too short...

Small gaps can be fixed with wedges made from cutoffs, so save those so you can match the grain for your patches.

When you try hand cutting, don't be tempted by all the dozens of different approaches.  I did that for a long time.  Didn't get a good result so I tried a new method.  Went thru this several times until I realized that I never stuck with one method long enough to develop the skill.  Stuck on one method and soon started cutting decent dts.

You tube is your friend.  There are lots of good videos out there.

Hope something in here helped.

 

[jacko9]

While I have the Leigh Dovetail jig for making drawers for cabinets, I still hand cut a lot of dovetails in furniture construction.  If you decide to take the hand cut approach look carefully into quality dovetail saws and a few good chisels.

If you do decide to take the hand approach I would avoid some of the newer chisels on the market like the Nadex chisels a small Czech company importing through various suppliers since I just destroyed a very sharp edge with one dovetail socket in white oak.

Jack

 

[tjskinny]

For learning one type of jig method Peter Parfitt put together a couple of videos using the 1400 with the Leigh jig.

Part 1


Part 2

 

[Mismarked]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I will start with the jig, and at least I won't have to buy any more tools for now.  I am sure I will want to try the hand tools at some point after I get the lay of the land and will look at a good set of chisels and a saw.  Right now, I have some old, random chisels that are at least sharp, but seem more suited for home improvement projects or opening beer cans than making drawers.

 

[grbmds]

I'd say that, unless you have a huge amount of time to practice cutting dovetails by hand, you're smart to stick with the jig. I know that pros and long-time woodworkers usually recommend learning to cut by hand, but I have never been able to hand cut a dovetail of superior quality to a machine/jig cut dovetail, don't currently have the time to spend practicing, and mostly am not that interested in perfecting my hand cut technique. I think the time is better spent doing the setup on a jig for router cut dovetails. Even though it sometimes is a little tricky to get them to fit perfect, for me, the chance of a professional good-looking result is much better with a router/jig. I currently have an Incra system router table/fence and that is actually the easiest way I have found to dovetails, but there are many jigs out there that work. The one that is easiest to setup and use is the one I'd try to acquire. Leigh makes great ones, but I don't know about ease of setup. Akeda also makes great tools, but again, I don't know about setup. Regardless, practice on scrap is always a first step for me just to be sure the fit is right.

 

[jacko9]

The Leigh dovetail jig is quite easy to set up and use even though the manual is quite wordy.  The best part is that they have designed a dust control fixture to work with the dovetail jig and coupled with my Festool Ct22 made cutting dovetails by machine pleasant for the first time.

Prior to buying the Leigh (a long time ago) I had the rather simple Sears Craftsman dovetail jig that works very well but, I got so sick and tired of clouds of dust and chips blowing in my face I learned to cut them by hand.

There are situations where you need to cut them by hand like the top rails in cabinets where you do a single dovetail to supplement your Domino joints with the drawer blades.

I can't emphasise the dust concern enough using a router so check out the Leigh web site if you already have the Festool Dust Extractor.

Jack

 

[Ollie]

Dovetails by machine = Incra

http://www.incra.com/

Dovetails by hand = David Barron.

http://www.davidbarronfurniture.co.uk/

Works for me.

Ollie

 

[Brent Taylor]

I do all my dovetails by hand,  some with routers but most by hand.  Box joints by table saw. Had a jig ,but unless it was a full kitchen or desk project, it takes more time to setup than to cut by hand. Plus  you can get the Zen of the work. Start out with pine or scrap,  learn which way the force are acting on the joint  and have fun.

 

[jacko9]

I tend to agree with Brent most times it just takes too long to dial in the router jig to get a tight fit.  There have been several articles in Fine Woodworking magazine giving details and tips for hand cutting dovetails.  You can join Fine Woodworking.com and get access to these helpful articles and other good typo and techniques.

Jack

 

[grbmds]

Dovetails by machine = Incra

http://www.incra.com/

Dovetails by hand = David Barron.

http://www.davidbarronfurniture.co.uk/

Works for me.

Ollie

I've tried to learn by hand, used other dovetail jigs, and, in fact, I have a very expensive Porter Cable Omnijig with router bits and the original template. It does work great, but it still requires much more effort and setup than my Incra table. This is especially true for half blinds. They are easy on the Incra and don't require much setup other than setting the bit depth for the wood thickness you're using and some centering. After that it's really very simple and the rest is just doing the actual work. If I were to cut tails by hand, they just wouldn't look as good. I know it because I tried that at one point in my life. I want a great finished product and don't get that with hand cut. Maybe I'm just unskilled or just impatient.

 

[Stone Message]

Which dovetail jig have you got?

Peter

 

[grbmds]

Which dovetail jig have you got?

Peter

Don't know if you mean me, but I have the Incra table and, so far, feel I have the best success with that of anything else I've used. The Porter Cable Omnijig is also a great tool, but expensive and still seems to require setup each time even though it is supposed to be more repeatable by allowing you to custom set depth stops on the jig for future use.

 

[Stone Message]

Hi grbmds,

Try looking at the dovetail drawer part of this set of videos and then pose what questions you might have:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/pedestal-desk-in-walnut-with-a-leather-top-9-videos-!/

Peter

 

[Mr Heavy]

Whatever you do thereafter, you MUST watch the Frank Krausz DVD: (I'm trying to edit this huge space out of the text but it's trying to trip me up.) Sample on Youtube It might not be the way you want to go, but the education is priceless.

Also watch any/all of the Incra videos on youtube. Chalk and cheese, but essential viewing.

personally, I'm in the Incra camp, but I just had a go with the Festool jig and it's the most twatproof solution I've ever seen.

Oh - I've had great success with the Stott (Stottman?) DIY template jig for through dovetails. Cheapest solution, great fun to build and use and the results are first class.

 

[grbmds]

Hi grbmds,

Try looking at the dovetail drawer part of this set of videos and then pose what questions you might have:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/pedestal-desk-in-walnut-with-a-leather-top-9-videos-!/

Peter

Peter,

Sorry, I didn't have time to do anything with this till this morning. Where is the link supposed to take me? I only get another FOG page with, I think, member projects. I always am interested in learning. However, I am just completing a set of drawers for a work table for storage in my shop. I used the Incra fence/table to cut half-blind dovetails. It's hard for me to imagine I could do a better job with another method, especially hand-cut. I know the Incra requires a little more work on through dovetails with a hand chisel, but I still think I couldn't do any better any other way. I will still look at the material in the link though, but what am I looking for with the link?

Randy

 

[FOGNewbie]

Whatever you do thereafter, you MUST watch the Frank Krausz DVD: (I'm trying to edit this huge space out of the text but it's trying to trip me up.) Sample on Youtube It might not be the way you want to go, but the education is priceless.

Also watch any/all of the Incra videos on youtube. Chalk and cheese, but essential viewing.

personally, I'm in the Incra camp, but I just had a go with the Festool jig and it's the most twatproof solution I've ever seen.

Oh - I've had great success with the Stott (Stottman?) DIY template jig for through dovetails. Cheapest solution, great fun to build and use and the results are first class.

Frank is awesome!

In regards to the original poster, there are so many ways to hand cut dovetails. I am on that same journey. I have really only truly tried once.

Some stress Pins first. Many teach tails first. Some argue right off of the saw with very little paring, others get close, pare with the chisel. I am thinking of Trying a spiral blade on a fret saw to minimize the paring.Spiral blade for dovetail waste removal

 

[Stone Message]

Hi grbmds,

Try looking at the dovetail drawer part of this set of videos and then pose what questions you might have:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/pedestal-desk-in-walnut-with-a-leather-top-9-videos-!/

Peter

Peter,

Sorry, I didn't have time to do anything with this till this morning. Where is the link supposed to take me? I only get another FOG page with, I think, member projects. I always am interested in learning. However, I am just completing a set of drawers for a work table for storage in my shop. I used the Incra fence/table to cut half-blind dovetails. It's hard for me to imagine I could do a better job with another method, especially hand-cut. I know the Incra requires a little more work on through dovetails with a hand chisel, but I still think I couldn't do any better any other way. I will still look at the material in the link though, but what am I looking for with the link?

Randy

Hi Randy

I am sorry for the delay (more grandchildren have arrived and one in an incubator).

This is the right link to the FOG thread:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/pedestal-desk-in-walnut-with-a-leather-top-9-videos-!/

Peter

Edited straight away:

I do not know why this is happening and I have no time to sort it out.

Here is a link to my YouTube channel - just find the Pedestal Desk Project in the various video sections.



Peter

 

[grbmds]

Hi grbmds,

Try looking at the dovetail drawer part of this set of videos and then pose what questions you might have:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/pedestal-desk-in-walnut-with-a-leather-top-9-videos-!/

Peter

Peter,

Sorry, I didn't have time to do anything with this till this morning. Where is the link supposed to take me? I only get another FOG page with, I think, member projects. I always am interested in learning. However, I am just completing a set of drawers for a work table for storage in my shop. I used the Incra fence/table to cut half-blind dovetails. It's hard for me to imagine I could do a better job with another method, especially hand-cut. I know the Incra requires a little more work on through dovetails with a hand chisel, but I still think I couldn't do any better any other way. I will still look at the material in the link though, but what am I looking for with the link?

Randy

Hi Randy

I am sorry for the delay (more grandchildren have arrived and one in an incubator).

This is the right link to the FOG thread:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/pedestal-desk-in-walnut-with-a-leather-top-9-videos-!/

Peter

Edited straight away:

I do not know why this is happening and I have no time to sort it out.

Here is a link to my YouTube channel - just find the Pedestal Desk Project in the various video sections.



Peter

Got it!. Thanks.

 

[Stone Message]

Many thanks for fixing the link Peter.

Peter