affordable glass
- Thread starter obdoor
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There are some good glass places in the USA What's your definition of affordable ? I mean a rolls Royce is affordable to Bon jovi. But not me.
Be more specific. Clear glass. Decorative. Or what?
Most glass shops are about the same and it won't be broken in shipment
Be more specific. Clear glass. Decorative. Or what?
Most glass shops are about the same and it won't be broken in shipment
ShawnRussell
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What kind of glass are you looking for? Art glass: stuff used for stained glass, mosaic and the likes? Float glass, the green stuff you see at home depot?
How much glass are you talking about? A few square feet or are you looking to open a wholesale account?
Either way, here are some places I use for internet orders:
http://www.delphiglass.com/
http://shop.bullseyeglass.com/
http://www.warner-criv.com/
If you want to go wholesale
http://www.warner-criv.com/
http://www.edhoy.com/Index.aspx
http://www.franklinartglass.com/shop/
Let me know if you want more and I can also help you find something local. The majority of these are all US East Coast based except for Bullseye.
How much glass are you talking about? A few square feet or are you looking to open a wholesale account?
Either way, here are some places I use for internet orders:
http://www.delphiglass.com/
http://shop.bullseyeglass.com/
http://www.warner-criv.com/
If you want to go wholesale
http://www.warner-criv.com/
http://www.edhoy.com/Index.aspx
http://www.franklinartglass.com/shop/
Let me know if you want more and I can also help you find something local. The majority of these are all US East Coast based except for Bullseye.
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- Jul 8, 2007
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I checked out an online source and the shipping costs would have been more than the glass. If not local, you might want to check out a dealer in nearest large city.
Peter
Peter
I own a glass shop (on the wrong coast, unfortunately). An approximate cost for 1/4" clear tempered is $6.00/sq. ft. (or $40 per pane) while 7/32" clear laminated with a .030 interlayer is $15. Laminated with a .060 interlayer is a bit more (and is typically what is specified for more demanding applications). Since we're not in a hurricane zone I'm not current on any likely code requirements you face--the advice to check with a local building dept. is good. Given your quantity and ability to make all panes the same size, you should be able to negotiate a better price than what I gave you. Neither product ships well so I would suggest finding a local glass shop who can order it for you.
I hope this helps--let me know if I can try to answer any other questions.
Phred
I hope this helps--let me know if I can try to answer any other questions.
Phred
When we needed some of the glasses in our double pane windows that their seals had leaked we priced out a bunch of places and the prices varied quite a bit. I think retailers have a lot of play with glass pricing imo. From the lowest to the highest it was more than double.
Are there big advantages to tempered laminated?
The primary advantage of tempered over annealed glass is surface resistance to breakage (impact resistance). Annealed (standard) laminated is a safety glass in that the shards stay in place (held by the plastic interlayer) when broken, but it can crack if someone leans too hard against it or it is hit by an object.
Tempered laminated adds additional resistance to cracking but if hit too hard will still break. I don't have access today to the difference in force ratings but can get them for you next week if that would be helpful in your decision-making.
Phred
The primary advantage of tempered over annealed glass is surface resistance to breakage (impact resistance). Annealed (standard) laminated is a safety glass in that the shards stay in place (held by the plastic interlayer) when broken, but it can crack if someone leans too hard against it or it is hit by an object.
Tempered laminated adds additional resistance to cracking but if hit too hard will still break. I don't have access today to the difference in force ratings but can get them for you next week if that would be helpful in your decision-making.
Phred
Phred said:
If it's not much trouble, I am quite interested in the ratings differences of the various products, not sure even how they are measured TBH. I'm in no rush at all, already have laminated windows throughout the casa, but new projects always seem to crop up. Other folks may find it useful also.
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Thanks Phred!
Peter
Peter
The best publicly available technical resource I'm aware of is Saflex's website.
Some of the highlights include:
1) Weight of 1/8" pane laminated to an 1/8" pane with an .030 interlayer = 3.5 lbs./sq. ft.
vs. 1/4" thick pane laminated to a 1/4" pane with an .030 interlayer = 6.6 lbs/sq.ft. (this could be important when designing your structure)
2) .090 interlayers are more typically used in hurricane zones. Be aware that the glass is intended to deflect when hit, transferring force to the frame. Therefore structural aspects of frame strength and how the frame is attached to (or is itself) the structure are important elements in overall system design (and thereby performance).
3) The page linked above has a map showing typical hurricane code standards.
4) The page also has a link to lots of brochures, presentations, and videos on their Download Library page. I couldn't get the presentation for "Designing for Hurricane Protection" to open but pages 4-6 of the "Saflex Hurricane Brochure" present a pretty good summary of codes, standards, and performance.
5) Other benefits of laminated glass include reducing up to 99% of UV (protecting furniture, carpets, etc.) and reduced sound transmission (approx. 50% reduction in perceived sound).
I haven't been able to find what I was really looking for--impact ratings for standard annealed vs. tempered vs. annealed laminated vs. tempered laminated glass. But the rule of thumb is that tempered is 4x stronger than annealed when it comes to resisting surface impacts. I'll make some contacts over the next day or two to see if I can track that down.
Phred
Some of the highlights include:
1) Weight of 1/8" pane laminated to an 1/8" pane with an .030 interlayer = 3.5 lbs./sq. ft.
vs. 1/4" thick pane laminated to a 1/4" pane with an .030 interlayer = 6.6 lbs/sq.ft. (this could be important when designing your structure)
2) .090 interlayers are more typically used in hurricane zones. Be aware that the glass is intended to deflect when hit, transferring force to the frame. Therefore structural aspects of frame strength and how the frame is attached to (or is itself) the structure are important elements in overall system design (and thereby performance).
3) The page linked above has a map showing typical hurricane code standards.
4) The page also has a link to lots of brochures, presentations, and videos on their Download Library page. I couldn't get the presentation for "Designing for Hurricane Protection" to open but pages 4-6 of the "Saflex Hurricane Brochure" present a pretty good summary of codes, standards, and performance.
5) Other benefits of laminated glass include reducing up to 99% of UV (protecting furniture, carpets, etc.) and reduced sound transmission (approx. 50% reduction in perceived sound).
I haven't been able to find what I was really looking for--impact ratings for standard annealed vs. tempered vs. annealed laminated vs. tempered laminated glass. But the rule of thumb is that tempered is 4x stronger than annealed when it comes to resisting surface impacts. I'll make some contacts over the next day or two to see if I can track that down.
Phred
Thanks Phred for the info and research. For laminated does everyone use the same polyvinyl butyral interlayer material? If not I'd expect the laminated impact ratings will vary a lot from maker to maker. Regardless any benchmark is better than none, when I was shopping for them about 10 years ago the info was mostly empirical, ie a guy smacking a window with a baseball bat, its informative but unscientific.
Paul:
In North America I believe DuPont and Solutia (acquired by Eastman Chemical last year and selling under the trade name Saflex) are the major suppliers of PVB. But since it's really just a type of plastic there are lots of suppliers (now including China where a lot of glass comes from these days). It can be hard to know whose interlayer you're getting--but a glass shop should be able to find out from the fabricator they use and let you know. Your only real protection is the manufacturer's testing which shows that a given makeup complies with a certain ASTM standard. The industry has moved beyond the baseball bat test--these days at the trade shows they use a pneumatic cannon to fire 2x4 lumber at windows (still crude and unscientific but always draws a crowd).
Phred
In North America I believe DuPont and Solutia (acquired by Eastman Chemical last year and selling under the trade name Saflex) are the major suppliers of PVB. But since it's really just a type of plastic there are lots of suppliers (now including China where a lot of glass comes from these days). It can be hard to know whose interlayer you're getting--but a glass shop should be able to find out from the fabricator they use and let you know. Your only real protection is the manufacturer's testing which shows that a given makeup complies with a certain ASTM standard. The industry has moved beyond the baseball bat test--these days at the trade shows they use a pneumatic cannon to fire 2x4 lumber at windows (still crude and unscientific but always draws a crowd).
Phred
Sorry it took so long but I finally got some data from Saflex. The following (except where noted below) are all for single lites sized 16" x 60", supported on all four sides, 1/4" nominal thickness made up of two 1/8" lites laminated to a plastic interlayer. The figures are load resistance (in psf) to a load of 42 psf applied for about 3 seconds.
1) Annealed 1/4" (monolithic--meaning single pane, not laminated): 182 psf
2) Tempered 1/4" (monolithic--single pane, not laminated): >210
3) Annealed with .060 interlayer: 123
4) Annealed with .090 interlayer: 123
5) Heat-strengthened with .060 interlayer: >210
6) Heat-strengthened with .090 interlayer: >210
7) Tempered with .060 interlayer: 147,888
8) Tempered with .090 interlayer: 124,560
The last two figures are for sizes of 20" x 60"--don't know why the Saflex calculator can't deal with widths smaller than 20" for tempered laminated. Those last two figures also look very suspicious to me.
Based on what I had read, I'm surprised that the .090 interlayer didn't have a clear advantage. IF (and that's a big if--as I said this is a new area for me), the above figures can be trusted and it were my project, I would be tempted to price the heat-strengthened vs. tempered options (both with .060 interlayers). In case you're not familiar with heat-strengthening, it is similar to but a bit less costly than fully tempering glass.
But more than anything else I would take the above with a large mound of salt, do further research, and talk to some people who have real experience and/or engineering knowledge.
I hope this helps, and again I'm sorry it took so long to get this initial data.
All the best,
Phred
1) Annealed 1/4" (monolithic--meaning single pane, not laminated): 182 psf
2) Tempered 1/4" (monolithic--single pane, not laminated): >210
3) Annealed with .060 interlayer: 123
4) Annealed with .090 interlayer: 123
5) Heat-strengthened with .060 interlayer: >210
6) Heat-strengthened with .090 interlayer: >210
7) Tempered with .060 interlayer: 147,888
8) Tempered with .090 interlayer: 124,560
The last two figures are for sizes of 20" x 60"--don't know why the Saflex calculator can't deal with widths smaller than 20" for tempered laminated. Those last two figures also look very suspicious to me.
Based on what I had read, I'm surprised that the .090 interlayer didn't have a clear advantage. IF (and that's a big if--as I said this is a new area for me), the above figures can be trusted and it were my project, I would be tempted to price the heat-strengthened vs. tempered options (both with .060 interlayers). In case you're not familiar with heat-strengthening, it is similar to but a bit less costly than fully tempering glass.
But more than anything else I would take the above with a large mound of salt, do further research, and talk to some people who have real experience and/or engineering knowledge.
I hope this helps, and again I'm sorry it took so long to get this initial data.
All the best,
Phred
