Alternative to MFS and "portable" traditional work bench

[Jesus Aleman]

I saw these two ads recently.  One is for a MFS-like router guide/template:

http://www.routereaseguide.com/gallery.htm

The other one is for an interesting portable bench.  It is not MFT like, but it is supposed to be a portable workbench.

http://www.blumtool.com/pages/benchhorse.html

Has anyone seen or used these?

JGA.

 

[Tinker]

A couple of years ago, I went to the wood show in Springfield, Mass hoping to look at a MFS template system.  Festool was not there that year, but i found a demo of something i thought was quite similar, the Router ease.
It was also considerably less expensive and seemed to be very quick for setup.  I bought the small model and felt i was making a big saving.

I set it up in my shop and very quickly discovered my biggest misttok was not listening to my long ago developed philosophy of "CHEAP AIN'T CHEAP"  By the time i was able to get it perfectly square and acurate to dimensins, i was so frustrated I put it in a back corner where it has been a great dust catcher (for all the fine dust floating around when I do no hook up to one of my CT's).

I later invested in a MFS 400 AND a 700.  Inspite of spendin many more hard earned $$$'s for bothe together, i fel i got a much better bargain. 

The MFS is very quickly set up for so many more situations and it is a snap to get it set up perfectly square and to exact dimensions.  The RE is quick if you do not have to worry about perfectly square cuts (close but no cigar) and if slightly off on first setup, it can take ages to get perfect to dimension setup.  I little off with the MFS and it is very quick to make corrections to perfect fit and perfect square.  I can also use the MFS for setting up for miter cuts on the MFT.  With the routerease, that is not an option. 
Tinker

 

[Tinker]

That BenchHorse looks like a great idea.  Several years ago, i ran across a workbench in Fine Woodworking where pipeclamps were the vices of choice.  Two pipes were use lengthwise with a block of heavy wood as the vice to be moved with th pipes.  There wr holes along the sides, front and back, for shorter pipe clamps and pipeclamps also were used on the legs for vertical clmping as for planing a door.  I made a copy of the table to my own dimensions and used it for a couple of years until I was introduced to the MFT's.  In favor of more shop space (which continues to dwindle), i finally disassembled the bench and retired it to my equipment storage (landscaping equipment, seed, fertilizer, etc,etc,etc) where it remains.  It was a very solid bench and was great for all types of hand planing as well as assembly, but I just found more uses for the MFT's.

The MFT's are not so great for hand planing, but doable.  This smaller bench looks like a good idea and possible was inspired by the much larger and heavier bench I found in FW years ago.  I have been lloking at the Walko Bench here in previous discussions as well as at my local toystore (WoodCraft) and it looks as if the BenchHorse could be duplicated using the Walko table tops made from bamboo and holes to match up with MFT tops.  Knowing how efficient the pipe clamps were for clamping to front of my FW table, i can see how efficiently this bench could work as part of my Festool/MFT system.  I am seriously thinking of making a copy. 

For lack of time to make my own top with accurare hole placement, I am thinking of a Walko replacement/extra top for the project.  Those tops appear to be very strong, solid and stable.  i have lots of 5/4 oak and/or 2x6 scraps of lumber to use for the sides and ends.  I think the oak would work fine for fold away legs that could be designed to be a universal base support for other portable/bench tools in the shop.
Tinker

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Sounds good, Tinker.  When are we going to see some photos of your projects, including this work table concept?  I thought the folding legs and two-piece braces of the Blum tables nicely designed and implemented.  Some X-braces added to an MFT will make it much more stable against racking loads such as those imposed by hand planing.  Connecting two MFTs with their legs at right angles will also make them much more resistant to racking loads; an MFT 800 joined to the end of my MFT 1080 is my standard setup for general work.

Dave R.

 

[Tinker]

Sounds good, Tinker.  When are we going to see some photos of your projects, including this work table concept?  I thought the folding legs and two-piece braces of the Blum tables nicely designed and implemented.  Some X-braces added to an MFT will make it much more stable against racking loads such as those imposed by hand planing.  Connecting two MFTs with their legs at right angles will also make them much more resistant to racking loads; an MFT 800 joined to the end of my MFT 1080 is my standard setup for general work.

Dave R.

Dave, I tried sending pics to the site some time back.  not much luck.  One of these days, I'll spend a little time to figure it out.  E-mail pics work ok for me, but to send onto the FOG seems to give m problems. I have upgraded once or twice since I last tried so maybe it is more possible now.  I'm just a bit computer challenged.  My GS knows moe than I do, and he is only 10.

As far as the work bench, I never took pics of it that I can locate.  I had a couple in my photo files at one time, but they got eradicated with one of the computer upgrades.  If you have old FWW files, you can look it up. FWW #139 (currently in the 200's, so you can see it goes back a little bit) on page 98.  The main strength of the bench is a center beam.  I used a piece of 2"(actually a little thicker) x 10" red oak.  the rest of the frame was of 2x4.  with the top about 3 2x6's with MDF pannels down center that could be rearranged, as needed, for clamping.  I don't have any of the pannels or 2x's left from the bench.  The end frames and the main beam are still out on the barn.  I am trying to determine a way to make use of them for planing with less space involvement.  The torsion box bench shown above might provide an answer.  I'm in the headscratching stage right now.

I have tried using my 1080 and 800 locked in tandem.  It does make for a little less flex when planing.  The problem is space.  i still use both MFT's, but found better use of space by locating remote from each other.  The main problem with usig the MFT for edge planing with hand planes is that it is a pain to try to clamp to the sides of the MFT frame.  Short pieces are fine, but wide and long can present a problem,  I had been thinking of Jaw Horse from Rockwell (Rockler now carries that one).  The torsion box shown in this discussion above might work better for me.  I have all sorts of scrap lumber and pipe clamps (pipes and fittings) in the shop so for now, it will be less expense to go for the box.  I already have a couple of old WorkMates and I think they will work well in tandem with the torsion box.

Sno on the way.  gotta run and get my equipment ready to push gold dust.  A couple more sno storms this winter and I can afford an MFT/3 to go with everything else.  i might even be able to afford a few more pieces of lumber from sources other than fire wood pile.  :

Tinker

 

[mohrab]

Tinker - After reading your post I was wondering if you have seen the article in FWW Tools and Shops 2009 by Joshua Finn - "Forget What You Know About Worbenches".  I just finished building the torsion boxes resting on saw horses that he describes.  I have a small shop and made them to unload sheet goods from my truck where I will initially cut them down to size.  The torsion boxes are the same height as my MFT.  I also plan to use Joshua's solution as he describes in his article.  Not as portable as other solutions but expect it to be very useful as a workbench in my shop.  Fortunately,  by turning the saw horses sideways and stacking the torsion boxes it doesn't take much room when not in use.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I thought Joshua Finn's torsion boxs and saw horses workbench was pretty slick and quite versatile.    After reviewing the Blum workbences, I think that if you bored some holes in those Joshua Finn torsion box workbench sections you could also fit pipe clamps or bar clamps and "hammer-in holddowns"  to enable them to be used somewhat like the Blum benches.  Of course, you would likely have to use different materials than the melamine et al used by Finn.

Dave R.

 

[Tinker]

Yes, i saw that set up.  When I was in construction, i sometimes made up torsion boxes for scaffold staging.  I had a whole pile of horses that were made up of three sections.  Two seperate leg sets with a notch in the top to accept a 2x ledger piece.  They were very strong and took up almost no (wellll>>>very little  8)) space on the truck when moving from job to job.  The torsion box planking were ok, but could only be used a couple of times as the plywood developed serious and hazardous splinters from constant moving around.  moving better have been spelled "tossing". 

When I saw the article in FWW, I thought of making a couple and drilling the top out like my MFT tops but being very busy with my day (and nite) winter job of sno plowing & sanding (busiest late December and all of January ever>>> darned little sleep) I did not think of the pipeclamps until I came across this discussion.  To make the side rails and ends large enough to runpipes bothe ways, it is necessary to use atleast 2x6 lumber (1x6 oak or locust is ok also) for the sides.  The boxes shown in that article would end up way too heavy for my tired old (39 for 40) broken down body to drag around and set up in my shop.  The box above is definitely doable for me.  The Walko pannels would be very strong and a lot of time saved by not having to spent it drilling holes in an accurate grid.
I will hope to go to local toy store this weekend (sno biz today and tomorrow.  Recovery day on Friday) and pick one up if possible.
Tinker

 

[Tinker]

For a few years, my workbenches were my tablesaw and a couple of WorkMates.  A WorkMate and a horse (collapsible that I use to make use of for scaffolding) worked fine for planing.  I just made sure the plane iron was sharp and set for shallow bites. When I ran across that bench in FWW, I made that and the hand planing was easy. 

I then met up with Festool and the MFT 1080 and there was no room in the shop for that bench. It got disassemble and retired to storage in favor of the much more versatile Festool bench. The 1080 is a little wobbelly for hand planing, but doable.  The side clamping for edgeplaning is limited to short pieces and I don't like putting as much pressure as necessary in those side channels to hold securely for heavy planing.  That is why I like the idea of that torsion box and pipe clamps.  The WorkMates are now used mostly as temporary clamping tables and dust attractors.  If I (when I) make a torque box like the Blum box, the WorkMates should become more handy once again. Actually, one of them is currently supporting my DW planer for the time being. 
Tinker

 

[Dave Ronyak]

When I saw the article in FWW, I thought of making a couple and drilling the top out like my MFT tops but being very busy with my day (and nite) winter job of sno plowing & sanding (busiest late December and all of January ever>>> darned little sleep) I did not think of the pipeclamps until I came across this discussion.  To make the side rails and ends large enough to runpipes bothe ways, it is necessary to use atleast 2x6 lumber (1x6 oak or locust is ok also) for the sides.  The boxes shown in that article would end up way too heavy for my tired old (39 for 40) broken down body to drag around and set up in my shop.  The box above is definitely doable for me.  The Walko pannels would be very strong and a lot of time saved by not having to spent it drilling holes in an accurate grid.
I will hope to go to local toy store this weekend (sno biz today and tomorrow.  Recovery day on Friday) and pick one up if possible.
Tinker

Tinker,

Would you need to use such thick, heavy stock for the sides given the network (grid) of reinforcements within the torsion box?  I was thinking that 3/4 or 1 inch thick [Baltic] birch plywood would be strong and stiff enough.  An additional internal rib could be included mid-height of the side panels of the torsion box to help resist bending of the sides due to use of the pipe clamps bearing on the sides and workpiece.  Also, because the workpiece is located between the jaw of the pipe clamp and the side of the box (bench top with frame), it would help spread the clamp load over a greater area of the side of the torsion box.

Dave R.

 

[mohrab]

Dave, Tinker,

Having built Joshua Finn's saw horses and torsion boxes I have to agree w/Tinker that if I had to move them around much I would quickly get tired of it!  However, Joshua (just a spry youngster) also said the reason he used melamine was that he could scrape glue and/or paint off more easily and screw into it if he needed a stop.  When beaten up, the melamine could be easily replaced because it is just screwed into the sides.  So, you wouldn't have to remake the torsion part of the box which appealed to me.  I was also surprised by how dead flat the boxes were when spread apart.  I doubt if they would move much if you used the to plane.  Making sides strong enough to be able to drill holes would probably make them more useful depending upon the type of work you do.  It would also make them easier to grab and carry.  Right now I am using them to hold up new front and back pieces for my trailer while painting them - they do wipe off easily.

 

[Tinker]

[/quote]

Tinker,

Would you need to use such thick, heavy stock for the sides given the network (grid) of reinforcements within the torsion box?  I was thinking that 3/4 or 1 inch thick [Baltic] birch plywood would be strong and stiff enough.  An additional internal rib could be included mid-height of the side panels of the torsion box to help resist bending of the sides due to use of the pipe clamps bearing on the sides and workpiece.  Also, because the workpiece is located between the jaw of the pipe clamp and the side of the box (bench top with frame), it would help spread the clamp load over a greater area of the side of the torsion box.

Dave R.
[/quote]

I have little other use (or don't spend money for) for melamine.  I do have lots of 2x6 fir  in my barn that is left over from my days as mason contractor.  The 1x lumber i have in storage i use for projects.  Some scraps of 1x might get used for work benches and tool boxes if they can be large enough for use there.  If (when) i make up torsion boxes, i will just head out to barn and drag out a couple more 2x6's for the sides and ends. 

I like the Walko pannels for the top and once assembled, I will do as I do with any WW'ing type bench.  Instead of using melamine, i put a coat of wipeon poly.  Maybe two coats as I did with both of my Festool tables.  I then buff with a couple of coats of carnuba wax.  Carnuba because I have in the shop for projects.  there might be better waxes for such purpose, but I try not to have too many volatiles in my shop.  Everything is all purpose as much as possible

I have read earlier posts, either FOG or elsewhere, that using furniture wax is not a great idea for work bench surfaces.  I have been using the carnuba furniture wax on benches and tablesaw/bandsaw surfaces for years with no problems with transfer to project surfaces.  On CI surfaces, I mix it with WD 40.  On wood (as on benches) I use it straight with long on the buffing part.  Melamine might be less work, but I have not used it for anything else in the shop. 

Another point in my workbench construction.  I generally have so little time to spend in the shop that I am inclined to spend far less time than I should in the construction of work benches and drawers.  (The Festool Sortainers have been a godsend for me.)
I tend to use leftovers for most of that construction.  I still have a bunch of 1/2" CD ply out in the barn.  Too often, I opt for using that and woodfiller to smooth out the knots for benches and boxes.  It ain't purty, but serves the purpose.  I admire some of the benches, router tables and tool boxes I see others building for their shops.  i just don't take the time.  Time is valuable and so i spend my time and use my good lumber to build for others. When I get to be 100, or so, i figure I'll retire and then i will find time to build masterpieces for work benches and cabinets for my shop.  Hey, i can dream, can't I  (an example:  I am still trying to find time to make my daughter's christmas present for 2006.  I have a pile of walnut blocks (from a tree in her yard in Arlington, VA) cut into 4x6 and 4x8 x18" blocks just waiting for BS and other toys to whittle down into jewelry box.  I have a pile of projects down in the cellar that are awaiting final finishing (warmer weather job).  Those are really up to date. They are for Christmas 2008.  I'm really ripping along here.

Right now, i am heading out for a load of sand/salt to sand a batch of driveways before we get expected ice this afternoon.  Tomorrow we have snow planned.  Oh well, I may not have time to work in the shop, but after this winter, I'll be able to buy more toys and even a little more lumber.  Maybe even try a little melamine for a bench or something.
Tinker