Another dead Kapex.

[NL-mikkla]

Thanks Ali for the PDF

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Readers should note that the instructions shown in this thread were developed solely by the writer, and without any input or approval from Festool. Anyone choosing to attempt the aforementioned repairs on their own should be aware that such an attempt will, in all likelihood, void any remaining warranty on their tool and could possibly lead to safety issues, along with other performance-related problems. Festool always recommends that repairs of this type be undertaken only by qualified technicians in a certified Festool repair facility.

 

[ChuckM]

Thanks for putting out this reminder instead of removing the thread or discussion.

I totally agree that anyone doing their own repair or even modification on any Festool tools should be responsible for their own actions with regard to safety and warranty issues. Each owner must evaluate the benefits, costs and risks of doing a fix themselves.

I have done a lot of fixes on all sorts of things myself with both success and failure stories. I would not have thought of trying to fix my Kapex if one day it broke down before I read ALI's story. With the pdf he has created, I think I would give it a try, but I sincerely hope that day would never come.

 

[JFelchlin]

I REALLY wanted to buy the Kapex.
Your SUBJECT line says it all.
I’ll stick with my Bosch 5412L Compound Miter Saw.
Like many other “Green Kool Aid” faithful -
For many years I’ve been pretty much an “exclusive” Festool buyer/user.
I’ve spent $1000’s investing in Festool products.
Sadly - No more.
Just too many, continuing/increasing number of reports -
Of Festool tool failures, the last several years.

It appears that this once exceptional brand of tools - Sold at premium prices -
With relentless annual price increases - Even on unchanged/unimproved tools -
Is now becoming a brand of relatively competitive quality “me too” tools -
Trying to trade on “yesterday’s reputation” of excellence.

As my “out of warranty” Festool tools fail - And require “out of pocket” repairs -
I find myself reluctantly replacing them with tools of competitive brands.
Their failure rates - Are more and more - Comparable to Festool -
But cost 1/2 to 2/3 the prices of Festool products. I’m not alone.

The Wizard of Oz was able to “dazzle ‘em” with hype for a while -
But the “curtain” of reality eventually came down.
Frankly, it’s sad to watch the same thing happening with Festool.

 

[Mario Turcot]

I REALLY wanted to buy the Kapex.
Your SUBJECT line says it all.
I’ll stick with my Bosch 5412L Compound Miter Saw.
Like many other “Green Kool Aid” faithful -
For many years I’ve been pretty much an “exclusive” Festool buyer/user.
I’ve spent $1000’s investing in Festool products.

Copy/Paste much

Are you trying to convince people? Because you did your rent several times already.

Me, like most mature people on the FOG.. I make up my own mind about tools and brands, thank you for your concerns.

Mario

 

[semenza]

Forum could definitely do with less repetitive cross topic  posting.

Seth

 

[mikeyr]

I understand the legal issues for Festool, maybe if they fixed the Kapex we would not be in this boat.  BUT I can't imagine that any of us here with the skills to work with our hands, could not figure out how to open up the Kapex and swap parts.  I pull motors and gearboxes on cars not saws all the time and its not rocket science, sure the first one is daunting and you might forget to put the reverse gear in (Ok, I didn't forget the reverse gear, I forgot the pawl that moves it into reverse so I had to carefully plan how to park for 2 weeks until I took it apart again) but worries that Festool would not allow the instructions seemed overboard (I know they did allow it, talking about the first 2 pages where people thought they might not).  I doubt there are too many people who would take their saw apart while under warranty, but after warranty is out I also can't imagine any issues for Festool.  Its only a tool.

Any decent alternator/generator rebuild shop should be able to rewind that armature quite easily.

 

[ALI Construction]

Mikeyr

You’re right.
As far as permission though, I was specifically via a PM advised not to post anything on here, and that didn’t bother me much.
I am surprised to see this thread not deleted, so that’s a good thing.

As far as rewinding the old armature, I already asked around here Philly, PA. Few shops quoted me 500-700 to rewind and rebalance armature. It’s really small, and most shops don’t wanna touch it.
So far I haven’t tossed the old armature yet because I was thinking of trying to rewind it myself,
Just still have to figure out as far as rebalancing it.

But for $160 I doubt anyone would bother rewinding. Unless a shop that does it is crazy enough to also provide lifetime warranty on their rewind.

Still baffles me, the only thing that’s special about this $160 piece is the aluminum casting that it comes with. Shaft is pressed into it, and then the gear is also pressed onto the shaft.
I’ve replaced armatures in Lakota routers, delta chop saws, and an old bt3000 TS I have, most of those armatures cost half the price of this one, or lower.

And them cheaper (so called inferior) brands are way more reliable

EDIT:
Props to our MODS (I won’t point fingers)
But apparently they have shook a tree, and we got a permission to do stuff like this. Obviously with appropriate warnings like. You WILL void any remaining waranty by trying to fix stuff yourself, but they won’t Frobisher you from doing so I you choose to.

 

[Cheese]

...maybe if they fixed the Kapex we would not be in this boat.

Amen...a very serious amen. If this was an exploding gas tank in a Pinto or a scored cylinder in a Vega, the entire world would be all over it. Unfortunately it’s only a bad armature design from a little known tool manufacturer from Germany. It’s all pretty low hanging fruit ...unless of course, you’re the owner of that low hanging fruit, that you paid a high hanging fruit price for.

Come on Festool corporate, just do the right thing and solve the problem you propagated, and continue to propagate on a daily basis as you continue to market and sell the the Kapex without seemingly, any concern for the current user issues. Have you no shame?

 

[semenza]

There has been a small issue with the link. It has been temporarily removed. I expect it will be back shortly. Or even better that the tutorial is just posted on FOG.

UPDATE>  issue has been resolved. There is now a pdf a couple posts down.

Seth

 

[Ajax]

A used TS 75 is my last Festool. 

The Kapex is amazing, but for the cost I shouldn't feel like it's gonna die at any moment.  I should have total confidence in the tool, but I don't.  It's really a shame.  Festool is sending their reputation down the toilet on this.

Thank goodness the user community is allowed to step up when corporate goes silent.

 

[Gregor]

There has been a small issue with the link. It has been temporarily removed. I expect it will be back shortly. Or even better that the tutorial is just posted on FOG.

Attached it is, directly, without advertisements.
[attachurl=1]

 

[miclee15]

Attached it is, directly, without advertisements.
[attachurl=1]

Just to clarify, and I hope this won't but probably will get deleted. 

• I apologize, if I offended or upset anyone with the content
• I'm glad to see the pdf posted here publicly.
• I am not afflicated financially with what was in that folder.  I have nothing to gain other then protection of my consumer rights when something doesn't live up to the claims or to protect myself when a defect is known and nothing seems to be done.
• It was there for my own reference and keeping in case my Kapex does have issue in the future. Mine is still functioning along with a dozen+ other Festools I own.
• I edited the page only to let people know I asked permission to post here and it was denied so no one would post it. 

   

 

[semenza]

Attached it is, directly, without advertisements.
[attachurl=1]

Just to clarify, and I hope this won't but probably will get deleted. 

• I apologize, if I offended or upset anyone with the content
• I'm glad to see the pdf posted here publicly.
• I am not afflicated financially with what was in that folder.  I have nothing to gain other then protection of my consumer rights when something doesn't live up to the claims or to protect myself when a defect is known and nothing seems to be done.
• It was there for my own reference and keeping in case my Kapex does have issue in the future. Mine is still functioning along with a dozen+ other Festools I own.
• I edited the page only to let people know I asked permission to post here and it was denied so no one would post it. 

 

Except for possibly a bit of confusion in the topic I don't see any reason to delete.

Gregor thanks for adding the pdf directly.

Seth

 

[kevinculle]

Readers should note that the instructions shown in this thread were developed solely by the writer, and without any input or approval from Festool. Anyone choosing to attempt the aforementioned repairs on their own should be aware that such an attempt will, in all likelihood, void any remaining warranty on their tool and could possibly lead to safety issues, along with other performance-related problems. Festool always recommends that repairs of this type be undertaken only by qualified technicians in a certified Festool repair facility.

This seems like a very odd disclaimer since any lucky Kapex owner who has warranty coverage still in effect would be highly motivated to have their Kapex fixed at Festool's time and expense, so it would seem that only those who have a dead Kapex that is out of warranty coverage would pursue this repair themselves.  Also the FTC ruled 2 days ago
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...panies-it-illegal-condition-warranty-coverage

that it is a violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act for a manufacturer to threaten to void a warranty contingent on requiring the use of specific parts or services unless the warrantor provides the parts or services free of charge.  I am not sure whether free of charge includes warranty related shipping costs but it would seem Festool USA may want to consult with its legal counsel before making such statements to its customers.

 

[TinyShop]

[member=60975]kevinculle[/member] - I don't want to detract from this particular discussion but do I want to thank you for posting the link to the FTC press release. In addition to your points, I found, in particular, the second bullet point to be rather informative - particularly how it may relate to Festool and the consumer's use of third-party products (like, for instance, fitting a Seneca adapter to the Domino XL). That said, I also found the third bullet point equally interesting. How often do we hear and/or read the exact opposite guidance (e.g. "don't break the seal or the warranty is voided")? The takeaway for me is that in the U.S.A. it is in contravention of the law for a company that has not otherwise received a waiver to deny a warranty claim based on a) a tool having been serviced outside the company's network, b) a tool having been fitted with unlicensed third-party parts or accessories and c) a factory seal having been torn. Very interesting indeed!     

 

[ChuckM]

... it would seem that only those who have a dead Kapex that is out of warranty coverage would pursue this repair themselves.

I can speak for myself that I have never fixed any machines or tools (including household items like furnace or water softener, etc.) myself that are still under warranty. My Kapex's warranty just expired in past weeks and ALI's pdf will be my insurance policy for now.

Does Festool offer extended warranty? May be without admission of anything, Festool could offer extended warranty coverage for the Kapex to existing owners for a token price.

 

[TXFIVEO]

Going to start this reply by saying I’m a huge FESTOOL guy.  Have many of their tools.  But interesting how FESTOOL comments on voiding warranty but not on the obvious Kapex issue.  If it was addressed correctly (extended warranty/“recall”) they would actually make MORE $$$ because I would buy the  Kapex along with many others I’m sure. 

 

[Brice Burrell]

[member=60975]kevinculle[/member] - I don't want to detract from this particular discussion but do I want to thank you for posting the link to the FTC press release. In addition to your points, I found, in particular, the second bullet point to be rather informative - particularly how it may relate to Festool and the consumer's use of third-party products (like, for instance, fitting a Seneca adapter to the Domino XL)......   

If I had to guess on the second bullet point about using third party accessories, I'd say that is probably a gray area.  If a third party accessory radically changes the scope of the tool's intended use then I'd guess there would be some leeway for the manufacture to void the warranty. 

 

[Brice Burrell]

Does Festool offer extended warranty? May be without admission of anything, Festool could offer extended warranty coverage for the Kapex to existing owners for a token price.

I don't want to pay for an extended warranty.  I want to hold Festool responsible for living up to its obligation to provide its customers the value for high end products we are paying for.

Interestingly, there seems to be a five year warranty for the kapex (motor only??) in Canada.  Its unclear if that longer warranty is on a new Kapex or only on the repair.  I've not heard anyone mention if this is only in Canada or if this is the policy in the US as well.