Another design for universal parallel guide brackets

[Alan m]

The one concern I have with the proposed designs in this thread is the durability issue.  When the guides plus extensions get "banged around" on the job site, there are some nasty forces generated due to the leverage of all of these components working in the wrong way and something is going to get torn up.  Things do get dropped and they do fall over.

That said, I like the direction this is going in that the current guides can be kind of "fiddly" to assemble on occasion.

this is why i would like a two part design

 

[John Stevens]

I am tossed between going with the lowest cost or highest quality, the jury is still out.

Hi RMW.  All you said makes sense--best of luck with your decision.  That said, I realize now that I jumped the gun when I said I was interested.  Please count me out for the time being, but I'll watch this thread with interest and see what develops.  I have a different design in mind that I'd like to try, but the main difference between your design and mine is that you're actually going to make yours available to me for a price, whereas mine will almost certainly remain a daydream.

All my best,

John

 

[Wooden Skye]

I like the Incra set up.  So I am even more interested.

 

[Lucky Dave]

RMW,

I am interested in 2 sets. Incra.

Dave

 

[rmwarren]

The one concern I have with the proposed designs in this thread is the durability issue.  When the guides plus extensions get "banged around" on the job site, there are some nasty forces generated due to the leverage of all of these components working in the wrong way and something is going to get torn up.  Things do get dropped and they do fall over.

That said, I like the direction this is going in that the current guides can be kind of "fiddly" to assemble on occasion.

this is why i would like a two part design

RD,

I have to admit not knowing how durable they will be when released into the wild. The set I made myself gets a fair amount of use with t-track that are 26" long overall, giving me 32" cutting capacity. The connection is surprisingly rigid and stable, with little flex. I attribute this to the light weight of the t-track, there is a lot more overall flexing in my rails when I use the Festool PG's. I just lean the rail against something when not in use.

[attachthumb=#]

The caveat is that I am a DIY user and while I don't baby my tools neither am I particularly rough on them. I don't expect to have issues with these with the normal amount of banging around in my shop, but that may be very different if a pro used them in the field.

Alan,

It takes me 30-45 seconds to install/remove the PG's from the rail, probably about as long as taking apart a 2-piece design. I understand the desire to not be pulling them on/off the rail all day long but just can't see complicating this more given the short time needed with the current design. When I get them in I will post a video and you can judge for yourself how persnickety they will be to use.

Thanks for posting your thoughts,

RMW  

 

[rmwarren]

The design is mostly finalized, except for a final check on all dimensions. The t-track to guide rail bracket is based on the design of the rail bracket from the Rip Dogs project, it is stable, slides on and off the rail easily without binding and I judge it sturdy enough for this use:

[attachthumb=#]

[attachthumb=#]

The adjustable stop is 1" long and the legs extend 6mm below the t-track.

[attachthumb=#]

I should be able to button this up later today and place the order. Based on the interest level I will probably order 100+ sets. If all goes well I will have them in about 4 weeks.

Thanks for all the interest and input so far.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

I am tossed between going with the lowest cost or highest quality, the jury is still out.

Hi RMW.  All you said makes sense--best of luck with your decision.  That said, I realize now that I jumped the gun when I said I was interested.  Please count me out for the time being, but I'll watch this thread with interest and see what develops.  I have a different design in mind that I'd like to try, but the main difference between your design and mine is that you're actually going to make yours available to me for a price, whereas mine will almost certainly remain a daydream.

All my best,

John

John, I predict that when the final product is available you will be unable to focus on daily necessities, probably toss-and-turn all night long and break into the sweats whenever you think about them. At least that is what happens to me when I keep my daydreams bottled up. The only cure will be getting a set, or making your own design a reality.

I will earmark a set for you just in case, it's the least I can do... [big grin]

RMW

 

[Alan m]

i dont  think it is the time factor but rather the inconvinince of having to remove and put back on  the parralel guides.
you could probably put on the parralel guides (festool ones) in that time  but i raraly do . i just do the cuts the old fasioned way. .
if you had the bracket on the rail fairly permanantly  all you would have to do is drop on the extrusion and do your cut and pup them off again. everything would stay set up

this is why i love your rip dogs so much. it is really easy to use and stays there ready to use while you are doing other cuts

 

[nclemmons]

I'd like a set. Nice evolution of the design.

neil

 

[rmwarren]

i dont  think it is the time factor but rather the inconvinince of having to remove and put back on  the parralel guides.
you could probably put on the parralel guides (festool ones) in that time  but i raraly do . i just do the cuts the old fasioned way. .
if you had the bracket on the rail fairly permanantly  all you would have to do is drop on the extrusion and do your cut and pup them off again. everything would stay set up

this is why i love your rip dogs so much. it is really easy to use and stays there ready to use while you are doing other cuts

I don't disagree that it would be more convenient, just don't know how to pull it off elegantly at a reasonable cost.

Glad you like the rip dogs, that was a fun project. I never use the stock MFT hardware any more.

Here is another idea for parallel guides you can make from scrap. The long slotted strip slides in the other piece, which is bolted to a couple sets of dogs. once they are set up it is easy to install/remove them as needed:

[attachthumb=#]

I made the long strip over-length then slide it all the way forward and cut it off to establish my zero point:

[attachthumb=#]

[attachthumb=#]

[attachthumb=#]

I normally just zero them out and then measure whatever distance I want to cut on them, mark it on the wood and then slide the strip back to the new mark and lock it in. You can see the 0" and 2" marks, there are a bunch more now.

[attachthumb=#]

I can double the capacity by moving them to the furthest set of holes on the MFT.

[attachthumb=#]

The dogs position them precisely so no issues with repeat-ability. If I am just trimming something, having started with < a half sheet, I normally use these rather than the PG's. The sheet just needs to fit between the rip dogs. They are also handy for cutting narrow strips of hardwood up to the total length of the rail.

RMW

 

[Alan m]

those look handy too

 

[mwildt]

For an Incra-specific design at $35-40 a pair, I'm in.  If the Icra-specific design would cost more, how much?

Would love a magnifying hairline cursor (and would be willing to pay more for it), but I'm the kinda guy who wants an egg in his beer, too.

Regards,

John

John - that initial cost number for the universal bracket was for the guide-rail-to-Incra brackets and t-slot hardware only. The Incra-specific design only costs a couple bucks more, but if I include the adjustable stop hardware then the price has to increase.

Going low-tech the stops can be as simple as a 1" section of aluminum angle with a drilled hole, cap screw and nut, it's fairy cheap. If they are machined to straddle the t-track they would be made of Acetal & cost nearly as much as the brackets themselves:

[attachthumb=#]

I am tossed between going with the lowest cost or highest quality, the jury is still out.

The hairline indicator is beyond my capabilities. Using the set I machined myself last spring can nail < 1/2mm without much trouble just by sighting along the edge of the bracket:

[attachthumb=#]

Most likely I will offer the brackets only and the stops separately. Anyone who is inclined to save the $$ can easily make functional stops.

RMW

If you machine this piece such that it gets closer to the measuring 'tape' then you wont have a shadow and no need for a hairline indicator either.

I like the way this is going. Having a dedicated bracket makes more sense. Count in me for a pair.

 

[rmwarren]

Looks like Ron and Ryan completed the design of the PG's they were talking about (congratulations guys!) and they are now available:

(Link removed by request)

The last time I had started a thread about making the PG's Ron let me know they were working on this and it was one of the reasons I never pulled the trigger, the basic design is nearly identical. Their components are beefier and slightly more costly, looks like anodized aluminum versus Acetal, but otherwise functionally identical.

My inclination is to drop my effort, assuming that many of the interested parties will just purchase Ron's product. As stated before, this is mostly a hobby for me anyway.

RMW

 

[rustym]

I'd rather have yours!

Rusty

 

[jjehowski]

So my next question is will your brackets be $160?

 

[mhch]

Apparently, the other guide from seneca is already sold out .... so you might seriously consider continuing your effort as many of us are likely interested ....

 

[rmwarren]

So my next question is will your brackets be $160?

I THINK, based on current cost estimates, around $80 sans the narrow strips for cutting narrow stock.

RMW

 

[lumbajac]

I'm looking for something that I can rip sheet goods as well as narrow stock - for example, ripping a 4" x 8' piece of poplar for face frames or whatever.  If yours can be used for this type of work as well I'd be interested at or around the cost you've posted.

Thanks.

 

[Tinker]

RMW, What do i need to do to get on your mailing list.  I have filled out the online form two (2) times and evidently, it has still been lost.
Whenever you get new ones out, I definitely would like to get a set. 
I just think your design is 100% better than the Festool PG's, especially when trying to rip long strips.  Being able to mount a pair of guides anywhere on a rail is so much quicker than fiddling with trying to figure how to hang the guides into outer space.  That just gives me a lot of problems.

If you decide to make your design, that is fine with me.  If you back off in favor of Ron, I am not particular except I have been communicating with you.  If you decide to go with your design, i am willing to wait.  Perhaps if you send me a PM, we can discuss further. I think my E-mail is in my profile.
Tinker

 

[rmwarren]

RMW, What do i need to do to get on your mailing list.  I have filled out the online form two (2) times and evidently, it has still been lost.
Whenever you get new ones out, I definitely would like to get a set. 
I just think your design is 100% better than the Festool PG's, especially when trying to rip long strips.  Being able to mount a pair of guides anywhere on a rail is so much quicker than fiddling with trying to figure how to hang the guides into outer space.  That just gives me a lot of problems.

If you decide to make your design, that is fine with me.  If you back off in favor of Ron, I am not particular except I have been communicating with you.  If you decide to go with your design, i am willing to wait.  Perhaps if you send me a PM, we can discuss further. I think my E-mail is in my profile.
Tinker

Tinker, I am not sure of what online form you referred to, I do not have one, nor a mailing list or a website even.

I would still prefer to make the PG's as my primary goal is in having several sets myself and I cannot justify buying Ron's product. The leaves me to either make them myself (by hand, which is time consuming) or try to leverage the interest of others into a quantity large enough to get the cost down. My secondary goal is to generate a small profit to make taking the risk/investing the time a good decision. I learned from the rip dogs journey that this can be time consuming.

If folks are still interested in the +/-$80 setup without the narrow stock thingies then I am still willing to move ahead. I have the CAD designs ready to release, and can have the finished parts in hand early in January. Would appreciate any feedback from others as to their continuing level of interest.

Thanks,

RMW