My Kapex, which only gets used occasionally, Still runs great. It is several years old (back when they were only $1300.00) and still looks virtually brand new. I love it and hope (worriedly) that it never burns up..... but, I know of four contractors who drooled over my saw on the job and wanted one. I told them the good (which is all mine has been) and I warned them of the motor trouble that many have experienced and the lack of resolution from festool. All these guys concluded that there was no way on earth to justify ANY problem on such an expensive miter saw. These four guys would now be using a Kapex if not for the motor issue. It is what it is...past time for resolution.
Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
- Thread starter Rsrflooring
- Start date
Rsrflooring
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I am really happy to see so many people discussing this. I dont complain when I have small issues. Usually I just roll with them as I did the first time the motor burned up. After my last experience I need somewhere to discuss how I feel. This has been a goos outlet and hopefully someone at Festool see these posts and the amount of views they get.
overanalyze
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I have remained silent for years on our Kapex issues. Festool service has always been great so I didnt think it was a big deal. I LOVE the saw. I bought it back in 2012 or 2013. It blew the magic smoke right under the warranty period. All shipping and repairs covered. Awesome! Then just a few months ago it did it again. All repairs covered, I paid shipping to Indy. Still very pleased!
Now...if it died again?...Not sure what I would do. I use it for work. I am a builder. It is our finish trim saw. It gets used for trim work only. We have 20 year old Dewalts that are our framing and rough use saws.
I was talking to my father about it and he has a good background in electric. I told him how they always ask about length of cords, circuit amperage, etc. The saw says it is a 120v motor. Our area has always had high voltage power. Consistently runs 125v plus. He wondered if high voltage wasnt more an issue than voltage drop. Certainly never crosse my mind before he said it...wonder if Festool ever looked at that as a possibility...
Now...if it died again?...Not sure what I would do. I use it for work. I am a builder. It is our finish trim saw. It gets used for trim work only. We have 20 year old Dewalts that are our framing and rough use saws.
I was talking to my father about it and he has a good background in electric. I told him how they always ask about length of cords, circuit amperage, etc. The saw says it is a 120v motor. Our area has always had high voltage power. Consistently runs 125v plus. He wondered if high voltage wasnt more an issue than voltage drop. Certainly never crosse my mind before he said it...wonder if Festool ever looked at that as a possibility...
Holmz
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The standard ISO method is that usually one makes a fishbone diagram of the mechanisms that lead to failure. Like ISO 21500, IEC 60034, ISO 1940, ISO 7919... etc... There are tons of them as well as the US 6-sigma.
They should know what is failing as well as the mechanisms that cause those parts to fail.
While magic smoke is escaping, the mechanism of failure is not magical.
There is a design or manufacturing issue that do not allow Kapex' to last the 20+ years like the dewalts... But it should not be magical or mysterious, unless it is just a perception issue.
They should know what is failing as well as the mechanisms that cause those parts to fail.
While magic smoke is escaping, the mechanism of failure is not magical.
There is a design or manufacturing issue that do not allow Kapex' to last the 20+ years like the dewalts... But it should not be magical or mysterious, unless it is just a perception issue.
I think it's past time that [member=57769]TylerC[/member] 's bosses come on here and make a statement re: this issue, non issue , or whatever they are calling it these days.
While they take a black eye around here , their overall reputation is barely scratched out there in tooldom. Bloggers and Video reviewers keep lauding the machine, and the general public keeps buying Festools by the boat load. Which motivates FT to do what exactly?
Now, if Tom's saw blew smoke on ToH, or Peter P.'s went tits up on an episode of the New Brit Workshop, or Popular Mechanics or Tool of the Trade ran an article - then maybe enough public pressure could be brought to bear. But until Kapex problems lead the Google search string , I'm guessing nothing is going to happen.
While they take a black eye around here , their overall reputation is barely scratched out there in tooldom. Bloggers and Video reviewers keep lauding the machine, and the general public keeps buying Festools by the boat load. Which motivates FT to do what exactly?
Now, if Tom's saw blew smoke on ToH, or Peter P.'s went tits up on an episode of the New Brit Workshop, or Popular Mechanics or Tool of the Trade ran an article - then maybe enough public pressure could be brought to bear. But until Kapex problems lead the Google search string , I'm guessing nothing is going to happen.
Major publicity is just bad for a company's bottom line and image anyway you slice it up.
Problem here is , FOG is not major publicity. And many of the members take up the cause when a complainer shows up. They defend FT chalking it up to just plain,ol bad luck ; or saying "what are the odds?"
And they're right. More guys have no trouble than not.
Except.........when you the unlucky sod whose got one of the 2.000047% that aren't supercalafrajolistic ; you're not feeling too good about that $1300-1600 you spent and for a saw that lasted 3 1/2 years. And all those easy bevel, 12% better dust collection, 5lbs lighter, it's a system features are worthless on an electric paperweight that doesn't even turn on.
Laminator's colleagues are correct. At this price, there should be no failures.
The fix is easy: offer a 10yr warranty on Kapex and eat the cost of all those 2.00047% of saws that break. But just like the video highlights, the financial reality is doing that makes little sense. Especially when the tools keep flying off of the shelf.
Problem here is , FOG is not major publicity. And many of the members take up the cause when a complainer shows up. They defend FT chalking it up to just plain,ol bad luck ; or saying "what are the odds?"
And they're right. More guys have no trouble than not.
Except.........when you the unlucky sod whose got one of the 2.000047% that aren't supercalafrajolistic ; you're not feeling too good about that $1300-1600 you spent and for a saw that lasted 3 1/2 years. And all those easy bevel, 12% better dust collection, 5lbs lighter, it's a system features are worthless on an electric paperweight that doesn't even turn on.
Laminator's colleagues are correct. At this price, there should be no failures.
The fix is easy: offer a 10yr warranty on Kapex and eat the cost of all those 2.00047% of saws that break. But just like the video highlights, the financial reality is doing that makes little sense. Especially when the tools keep flying off of the shelf.
I had a kapex repaired last year, new armature, new armature lasted until a few days before Christmas till that one burned. Brought out my backup kapex only to have that last 5 months in the field before that armature went up in smoke.
Now I'm down 2 kapex and went out and bought the Bosch glide. Way too heaven and has a ton of blade wobble. Hoping the new makita is as nova as it looks and can be a kapex replacement. The kapex seems too fragile for everyday work. But it's so hard to find something that can come close to its accuracy and light weight.
Dave
Now I'm down 2 kapex and went out and bought the Bosch glide. Way too heaven and has a ton of blade wobble. Hoping the new makita is as nova as it looks and can be a kapex replacement. The kapex seems too fragile for everyday work. But it's so hard to find something that can come close to its accuracy and light weight.
Dave
I am seriously considering pulling the trigger on a Kapex120 but being a member of FOG is putting me off now. It would be for private use and wouldn't get anywhere near trade use so I worry about the possibility of it going pop outside the warranty period. I understand the complexities around Festools situation, it's a big thing to get to the bottom of issues like this and even bigger admitting it and applying remediation to an existing customer base.
If its not going to be addressed physically then I would like to see Festool offer a 10 year warranty from new on the electronics & drive train or maybe an Extended warranty option to take out at the 3rd year much like you can on cars and home appliances.
If its not going to be addressed physically then I would like to see Festool offer a 10 year warranty from new on the electronics & drive train or maybe an Extended warranty option to take out at the 3rd year much like you can on cars and home appliances.
southrider
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As a member of my local woodworkers guild I am kind of considered the "festool guy" in the group that people come to for festool advice.. This problem has already cost them 2 sales in our small group (myself and another member who was planning to buy one, but asked me for feedback).
FOG members around the world are typically Festools leading enthusiasts,and thus key influencers to many many more potential customers.
For everyone who has run around their community raving about the Domino or CXS there are probably an exponentially larger group telling people not to touch a Kapex with a ten foot pole.
One would think that Festool recognizes the influence of this key group of customers, and would respond appropriately. They obviously believe catering to the FOG makes them money, as evidenced by what they spend for the Roadshow and Connect.
Just a few thoughts..............
FOG members around the world are typically Festools leading enthusiasts,and thus key influencers to many many more potential customers.
For everyone who has run around their community raving about the Domino or CXS there are probably an exponentially larger group telling people not to touch a Kapex with a ten foot pole.
One would think that Festool recognizes the influence of this key group of customers, and would respond appropriately. They obviously believe catering to the FOG makes them money, as evidenced by what they spend for the Roadshow and Connect.
Just a few thoughts..............
It would be against my conscience knowing what I know about the potential issue with the Kapex motor to recommend it unconditionally. If asked, I would say about the so many good things about the saw, BUT... is how I would continue and qualify my assessment.
To me, the time bomb can happen to anyone and it is not worth the worry in the back of the mind, given the price tag of $2,000 Cdn. If Festool came up with a permanent solution and offered a one-time $200 fix (10% of tool price), I would do it, just for the sake of peace of mind. Crowd funding, Festool?
To me, the time bomb can happen to anyone and it is not worth the worry in the back of the mind, given the price tag of $2,000 Cdn. If Festool came up with a permanent solution and offered a one-time $200 fix (10% of tool price), I would do it, just for the sake of peace of mind. Crowd funding, Festool?
Rsrflooring
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I would have remained quite on my issues had I been offered a replacement or extension on the warranty. However I was met with silence on my request. So here I am and will be doing what I can to get other potential buyers to know what I did not.
six-point socket II
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Hi,
There's something I'd like to know: has anyone affected by this issue ever contacted anyone at Festool USA or Festool Germany beyond the Service Department?
Kind regards,
Oliver
There's something I'd like to know: has anyone affected by this issue ever contacted anyone at Festool USA or Festool Germany beyond the Service Department?
Kind regards,
Oliver
six-point socket II said:
Good question. Anyone?
But since Festool sounds to me a typical departmentalized company, I wonder if anyone who had tried reached anything past the middle mgmt. The motor problem we have heard so much about is beyond anyone on the middle mgmt pay grade.
Christian Oltzscher is the CEO of Festool. Formerly ran Festool USA and is now in Germany.
He's a member here and the reason the FOG was brought under the Festool organization many years ago. Great guy. You might try sending him a direct message. I've personally had a Kapex since it was introduced with no motor issues.
He's a member here and the reason the FOG was brought under the Festool organization many years ago. Great guy. You might try sending him a direct message. I've personally had a Kapex since it was introduced with no motor issues.
I have a kapex and needless to say I follow these threads with much interest.
One question I have been meaning to ask is if these failures are more prevalent with newer units, vs the much older units bought around the time when Kapex was introduced. I get this feeling because several old timers seem to have no issue with their units over many many years. It is possible I am mistaken.
Thanks in advance.
One question I have been meaning to ask is if these failures are more prevalent with newer units, vs the much older units bought around the time when Kapex was introduced. I get this feeling because several old timers seem to have no issue with their units over many many years. It is possible I am mistaken.
Thanks in advance.
It's posts like the one from Dave Reinhold that sum up the Kapex for me. I remember seeing one of his videos a few years ago in which he was raving about how good the Kapex is, 5 years and 3 armatures later he has bought something else because the Kapex motor is not fit for purpose.
Doug
Doug
I bought my Kapex soon after they went on sale in the US. I had to get the miter adjuster fix that came out soon after the introduction.
My use ranges from very light to light by the standards of most people on this forum. I have had no issues with the saw like are being described here.
In defense of Festool, the percentage of motor failures appears to be very low. For example, if the failure rate is less than 1 per 1000, then it can be very difficult to pinpoint the cause.
After such a long time, they are now in a difficult position in a marketing and legal terms.
For marketing, it is tricky to make things right when doing so admits you have failures you do not understand. Hardly a great position for a premium tool company.
From a legal point of view, making it right for the customer could be viewed as admission of a problem that has been long known and ignored. That might put them in a position of being accused of knowingly selling defective tools. That would not be tolerated by any corporate legal team.
Festool's best hope is to discover a cause that can be recognized as unknowable in the general sense. If they could claim that, then the above issues can be avoided and customers can be dealt with in a fair manner.
My use ranges from very light to light by the standards of most people on this forum. I have had no issues with the saw like are being described here.
In defense of Festool, the percentage of motor failures appears to be very low. For example, if the failure rate is less than 1 per 1000, then it can be very difficult to pinpoint the cause.
After such a long time, they are now in a difficult position in a marketing and legal terms.
For marketing, it is tricky to make things right when doing so admits you have failures you do not understand. Hardly a great position for a premium tool company.
From a legal point of view, making it right for the customer could be viewed as admission of a problem that has been long known and ignored. That might put them in a position of being accused of knowingly selling defective tools. That would not be tolerated by any corporate legal team.
Festool's best hope is to discover a cause that can be recognized as unknowable in the general sense. If they could claim that, then the above issues can be avoided and customers can be dealt with in a fair manner.
